So it got me thinking today, why some races have different ability modifiers than others: why Elves have a high Dexterity and Dwarves a high Constitution. From this idea came the following thought process, which I would like to introduce as an alternative to beauty stemming from Charisma.
What we see as beauty in eachother is nothing more than culturally establish, thus biased, sexual traits. At one point in time and history, we all had different desires from a sexual partner. The Chinese of old preferred women with tiny feet, Egyptians like their women homely and plump and the current Western ideal is slim women with good hips and large breasts. By no account do our tastes match, and they shift from culture to time.
Keep this in the back of your head and try to compare it to the world of Faerûn.
How did Elves come to be so nimble, so agile? Surely if they did not value it in their sexual partner, the trait would have died out long ago. Appearantly, they seek this trait in eachother because it is considered a desirable sexual trait, and thus beauty. When we as Westerners see a slim woman with big breasts, the majority of us would see it as beauty and experience sexual arousal. An African man may simply shake his head and consider her malnourished.
As such, each race looks for these sexual traits in another and would consider it beauty. But, this is in the eye of the beholder obviously. As far as I can think, even the most hardy of Dwarves with a very high Constitution will not look very appealing to an Elf. Elves have a very poor Constitution, so you can tell it is a trait you do not admire at all, hence why it is poor and of no importance. Given a high Constitution Dwarf and a high Dexterity Dwarf, an Elf may look more favorable upon the high Dexterity Dwarf; even though it is not of his own race, it has traits it can admire in its sexual partner. Obviously, race still is the most important factor in this equation and the boundaries between interracial love would be nigh to none here - the point was the clarify the view of the beholder.
By no accounts is this a solid 100% true every time, all the time, but I would like to introduce this viewpoint and give it up to consideration to the playerbase. Yes, some skills, feats and abilities may form because of the enviroment and its forced adaption to this, but first and foremost should the sexual traits be considered - what do you seek in your sexual partner. Pregnancy is a huge investment, and you want to have the chance at the best off-spring.
Darwin's Survival of the Fittest doesn't mean survival of the strongest, but survival of the best adapted. To put your off-spring into the world, you must first make it.
I hope this gives food for thought.
I loled, but good stuff nonetheless!
Dwarves like big beards and they cannot lie.
Is this aimed at making "Charisma =/= beuty"? I so, i support hot elves sleeping with high dex dwarves.
hmm can we have hot female elves making out with each other instead, though?
So because CHA is low in dwarves, dwarves prefer their mates to be gruff, impolite and fugly.
This thread is getting hot.
Charisma is not directly physical beauty in the first place. It is mostly the force of one's personality, their magnetic qualities to lead or otherwise have a strong presence in general.
While physical beauty can certainly relate to these things, it's quite acceptable for it to go either way I think. You can have quite the charismatic leader who is rather horrifying to look at, or the other side of things can apply too.
Yeah that's not really how it works.
Charisma has always been an amalgamation of physical beauty and force of personality as I remember it. You make a good point that the other physical stats can also be included in beauty. A strong looking man is more handsome than someone who's just stick and bones. An agile dancer is more more appealing to watch than a clumsy oaf. A healthy looking person is obviously more attractive than a sick one.
I would still say that the "physical beauty" appeal of charisma is fairly "universal" between races, however. After all, where else do half-orcs and half-elves come from?
Quote from: Caster13;250990After all, where else do half-orcs and half-elves come from?
not all unions of the body are consensual :S
Let's not be hasty and conflate respect/admiration with attraction!
Quote from: Elytherin Dragonius;251068not all unions of the body are consensual :S
Very true, but even that could be based on some sort of attraction, as base as it may be.
I have seen an eight charisma dwarf lead a faction. He was not attractive at all, yet a heroic and admirable person.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Charisma
There is a lot more to charisma than just looks. You could have a high charisma and look ugly as sin but still be a persuasive leader, or the other way around being a prettyboy/girl that is nothing but looks and doesn't have the charm or influence to back it up.
The rest of it is also interesting! Though also take into consideration (using elf as an example here) that the physical traits might not be bred in because of what was found desirable alone, but also because of the race itself. Elves are fey, and they hardly eat as well (also puts them at an uncomfortable stance sometimes with races like halflings that greatly value eating and eating often), which can also both be factors to their attributes. The gaunt stigmata pnp feat gives the character +2 dex and -2 con.
Quote from: Kinslayer988;251090I have seen an eight charisma dwarf lead a faction. He was not attractive at all, yet a heroic and admirable person.
Wich is exactly what you shouldn't be able to do.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;251176Wich is exactly what you shouldn't be able to do.
Agreed.
I would like to say that we cannot truly apply the darwinian theory of natural selection or evolution to Faerun and those models of physical attraction between the races.
Why? Because the humanoid races have their own highly differentiating background stories. Humans are a creator race who started out as primitive tribal groups, much like how the aforementioned theories are indeed applied.
However, Elves are native to the Feywild, which is a pseudo-parallel plane to the Prime Material and thus their origins on Abeir Toril and even their appearances are unique due to this.
They are highly selective of their partners, for the most part and consider other races beneath them as they are wont to do. And this is all not merely due to their long lifespans but due to the inherent ideological differences between them and the lesser races.
We cannot thus say that an elf is attracted to a dwarf due to its physical appearance being more akin to its own or its desires in a partner. Because the dwarf is of a recognisable and unholy incompatible race, no matter how "pretty," they look.
Of course we also have the drow priestesses who mate with giant fifteen foot demons known as Glabrezu simply for a gain in power!
Quote from: RagingPurpleGiant;250987This thread is getting hot.
I concur.
TL;DR man
really
What?
100% agree