It seems spells that require a touch/ranged touch attack are rather easy to evade due to the laughable AB of sorcerers/wizards. Today i cast 4 in a row and none hit. I could have just been unlucky, however.
But in case i'm no the only one who feels this way, i thought it would be a good idea SF: Spell school gave +2 AB to all touch attacks of spells of that school that use it, and GSF: +4. Or if that's too much, maybe +1/+2 respectively.
PvP wise i suppose touch attacks are a hard counter to STR based characters with low DEX, but PvM i get the feeling they are almost useless.
I agree. The rate at which they hit is very poor.
Or as an alternative, perhaps their Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier added to the attack roll, whichever is highest.
Not against that idea coldburn.
Make a perk that allows a caster to add their main casting stat to Touch Attacks. OR, gives a straight +4 bonus to touch attacks.
You have got to be kidding me.
No. Just no. I am sorry. Those orb spells are balanced with touch attacks as they are. Already they are Nd6 elemental spells without reflex saves for half damage and status effects. They are powerful enough as is!
I guess that's a no.
I suppose i can try the spell a bit more, see if it is more usefull than i thought.
I will add, the spell deliberately does NOT take spell resistance or spell immunity into account!
Unless they've been reverted, every arcane spell except Orbs that used to require a touch attack is now an auto-hit. So Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Burning Bolt, Scorching ray all hit. The Orbs have a touch attack because they ignore Spell Resistance. It's the tradeoff for being able to fry Drow and Nightrisers easily.
Touch Attacks don't count Armor, Shield or Natural AC, so you're looking at effectively +12 against an unbuffed fullplate/shield fighter or +5 against a Monk with Mage Armor up. Also, you can chug yourself a few potions to get that AB up. If you want to use Orbs, have some Dexterity on the PC or use Truestrike.
Scorching ray does use a ranged touch attack. That's the spell i was refering to.
Ah, that's definitely less useful. It didn't require one last time I used it, and made it great as one of the better ways to fight PCs with Evasion as a mage. The trouble is that PCs with high Reflex saves are the same ones with good AC vs touch attacks because DEX counts for both. Scorching Ray did however get ridiculous on a L7+ mage empowering it for 8d6*1.5 dmg at long range. Haste, fire a pair, no chance to miss. For low DEX chars, most evocations work nicely as they'll likely not make the save. Touch attack, no save spells are there to counter stuff with Evasion. Is Scorching Ray now not subject to SR/immunity?
Additionally, did any more spells get dropped back to touch attacks? I was thinking of using rays and touch spells on my next mage and didn't want to find out too late that I'd need STR or Dex for them.
Scorching ray is not affected by SR, no. But it's not really a counter to things with evasion. Things with evasion often have high Dex, so the AB you need is higher to hit them. I imagine though, once i reach level 7 the rays will be better, i take it it's 1 roll for each, so it will be posible to strike "Partially". Still, i dobut a +4 AB will be nearly enough to hit most things out there.
Put points into dexterity and buff your dexterity if you want them to hit.
Ranged Touch AC for most people is 10+deflection+dodge.
That means the average Ranged touch AC for a PC on EfU that isn't a dexterity build... is about 11-12. Buffed, it usually rises to about 14-15 if they use 'Shield' NPCs are little better.
Not hard to hit at all.
Like any spell, you tailor your spell selection depending on the creature or the person, you don't use reflex spells or ranged touch AC spells against rogues or dexterity builds, for example. You don't use fortitude spells against pure fighters/Barbarians.
Bonus Feat: Spell Finesse.
Protip: TRUE STRIKE DOESN'T SEEM SO BAD NOW DOES IT, FULL CASTING CLASSES?
lovethesuit laying down the law.
From what i've seen however, and i've been using this spell as much as i can, true strike or incredible luck is necesary for scorching ray to work... if this is how often orbs work, the true strike is a prerequisite, because otherwise PvM they are useless.
This conversation makes me lol.
Aid, bless, divine favor, don't seem that useless for mages anymore do they?
It does, we're talking about something arround 7 or 8 AB for the touch attack, without true strike. That does it in PvP against non-dex builds, but not against NPCs. I suppose this is meant to remain a PvP spell?
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Touch_attack
They function well enough as they are. You are aiming to hit anywhere from 9 on an unprepared 8 dex cleric to 25 on a fully buffed dex build. Even if you take the average of that touch AC of about a 16 you're hitting 50% of the time fairly easily. Buff your AB up with other effects, use true strike, or take the risk if you want to without.
I stand humbled. And a little drunk.
Quote from: TakenByVisions;251067http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Touch_attack
They function well enough as they are. You are aiming to hit anywhere from 9 on an unprepared 8 dex cleric to 25 on a fully buffed dex build. Even if you take the average of that touch AC of about a 16 you're hitting 50% of the time fairly easily. Buff your AB up with other effects, use true strike, or take the risk if you want to without.
I think i've stated twice alreayd the problem is not PvP.
NPCs seem to have a tendency to avoid touch attacks that roll an 18. I said so before, i casted the spell 4 times in a row, twice now, against a random strong NPC, and both times not one touch attack hit. It works wonders against the bosses of the 2-5 quests, but so does a level 2 summon, and although your average enemy gets destroyed by it the "strong" enemies wich the spell is worth using on somehow avoid the high rolls. I haven't used it on trolls though.
Maybe i'm just being unlucky with the spawns i choose or DM creatures have a default high DEX? I'd love if a DM could answer to that. It might be that custom DM spawns have a high dex or another kind of AC that counts for touch attacks by default.
PvP-wise it's fine, it's a strong spell against non-dex builds.
It is more important that abilities are balanced for PvP than PvM. That's why unfortunately any buffs to this pretty powerful PvP spell won't stick.
Try use it on Orcs (not the archers) and Trolls and stuff. I'm sure you'll have a good chance to hit!
Unless there's some sort of bug, ranged touch attacks are fine.
I don't mean to be rude, but some of your suggestions are so silly, Drakill.