Or, How to write Old Testament English!
Just a short thing I hope may be educational on some of the lesser-known nuances of english and um, stuff.
I. Accents vs. dialects vs. illiteracy.
This defines the point at which a word is expected to be written differently than the norm.
1. An accent implies a word that is pronounced differently from how it is written. In other words, "your," "yoor" and "yer" are all still spelled "your." If your character is not part of a particular tribe or subculture or just poorly educated, his writing in common will still have standard spelling.
2. A dialect is the point at which a nation's subculture differs not only in pronounciation but also in grammar and vocabulary. They will have words that are spelled differently from the norm at this point, but their speech in general will likely be hard to understand. An example is the amish, which speak a dialect of german. If your character is tribal or in some obscure culture, this may apply and his spelling may be radically different. He'll likely also use words other people aren't even familiar with.
3. Lastly, an uneducated character would simply spell things the way they sound out to him, more so for difficult words. This would likely manifest as more crude, childish-seeming letters, where short, common words would be spelled better than long ones and so could change the situation regardless of accent or dialect.
II. Old english terms.
I like seeing ye olde english terms in letters and posters, though seeing them used poorly, I, at least, find is a little jarring and reminds me that they're not terms from our current era. Since their use can be a little confusing even to native english writers (though some of these are still in use in certain areas), I hope to clarify a little why they exist and how to use them correctly.
Also, this might be more detailed than anyone needs, but hopefully it'll at least point in the right direction, maybe inspire some if lucky!
1. "Ye." This can be two different words. It can mean "the" or "you." "Ye" as "you" at one point implied more than one person (as opposed to "thou") and, similar to german, this plural version was also a sort of "formal" address. When to use?
a. When addressing a group. "I shall guide ye to the caverns." However, not when you could use "to." Ie "I shall guide ye around the caverns; after this I will give rations to you."
b. When addressing an equal or superior as a form of respect. "I shall guide ye to the throne, highness."
c. Ye can also be seen used as "the." (This is incidentally because there was a rune (thorn or thurisaz) that stood for the "th" sound. Early on, the "y" stood in as this rune's symbol.) This generally stopped seeing use before "thee" etc. It is essentially just an archaic spelling of the word "the."
2. Thou/Thee/Thy/Thine.
The purpose these words had has (mostly) not been completely continued in modern english. So, using them properly can be confusing. Speakers of some other languages may actually "get" the uses more easily. These affect only the second person singular, first and third are (almost) just as in modern english.
SINGULAR
First of all, know if you are talking about one person or a group. Thou, Thee and Thy/Thine are all for singular cases only - you are talking to just one person. It clarifies situations - for instance, in scripture, if Jesus is talking to the head pharisee and his priests, and he says "Thy sins are great," he is specifically addressing one person (presumably the leader), but if he says "Your sins are great" it is ambiguous. (If he were to say, "Ye have committed great sins," he is definitely speaking about sins of the entire group, not just one person.)
a. Thou - is the default. It is essentially "you (specifically)." Ex: Thou shalt speak; Thou has said, etc. It distinguishes "You, in particular" from "You guys," or "You all, as a group." It is the nominative form. NOTE: This is the only time the plural changes from "you" to "ye."
b. Thee - is the objective form. The simple way to remember is that this is the correct form to use any time that you could, or do, precede "you" with a "to." The "to" does not always have to be written. For instance, "I will speak unto thee; I give [SIZE="1"][to][/SIZE] thee this gift," both are correct. Again, you're not giving it to "you all" but specifically the one person you speak to.
c. Thy/Thine - these are the possessives. If you are talking about something that belongs to the person, you use this. In other words, when you want to point out that something belongs specifically to the person you are addressing. Which one to use? Easy, thy and thine correspond to my and mine. If you were speaking to a group, you would say "this is your pipe; these are your pipes; the pipes belong to you; ye own these pipes." But as you are singling out one person, you say "this is thy pipe; it is thine."
Hope this helped someone and wasn't too boring. ;) In the right situation, I think it can even lend dramatic impact, like when talking about responsibility, or for instance making accusations... in my opinion, "It is THY fault" somehow just sounds more strongly than "It's YOUR fault," no ambiguity, it is your fault specifically, individually...
I shall countinue to write mine letters in thee manner with which I am accustomed, lacking thee patience or supple tongue for such blandishments. Thy advice is heard, yet rings of pedantitry.
-
Badger
WELL, AWLRITEE THAN
You didn't write enough words there, not a proper druid post. Come back to us when you've added a thousand more and coloured it blue. :p
Yaay, finully sum'one did dun' pointin' out dat it's koinda wierd ta write jus' ta way loik sum'one woul' speak. It ain't natural! <3
The role play of EfU both in forums and game is transmitted through written english language, proper use of it is not irrelevant to the purpose of the server in the slightest.
Badger, to someone knowledgeable enough in English, what you write reads, "I shall countinue to write mine letters in you manner with which I am accustomed, lacking you patience or supple tongue."
This seems wrong. Then I realize, "Oh, this person is trying to sound authentic and old-timey, but apparently in modern times some people don't know "thee" always meant "you," never "the."
And then I realize that I'm thinking about modern times, and my sense of immersion has been blown out of the water. Using old terms so poorly is in my opinion just as bad as using out of place modern terms.
An alternative interpretation:
Badger is an insane outcast dwarf who is also a druid, and therefore has strange speech and writing patterns resulting from that, rather than any desire to be "ye oldee timee".
Thank you for taking the time to make this.
Consider that if my wizard for whatever reason calls the plane of air the "air-plane" and constantly says his summons "get off the airplane hungry," it's no less bothersome to (some) others just because it's "technically" in-character or whatever. It reminds of anachronisms.
[SIZE="1"]Edit: Please, noone do this.[/SIZE]
I for one welcome our pedantic grammar overlords.
Doesn't bother me at all. I enjoy the quirky badger posts.
I for one applaud this excellent bit of prose.
The sentiment of the OP are shared by the general majority of DMs.
I agree with Grendel, it's not particularly pedantic to appreciate correct grammar in these things. If you put in the effort to write in that particular style then it's no great stretch to do so properly. I atleast find that you instinctively know when each is appropriate much the same as when using the modern equivilents.
It can indeed be kind of immersion breaking even; if it's so blatantly incorrect.. I mean.. yeah, no disrespect meant and intended and all, but it's just so bizarrely out of place.. even things like the apparent insanity-trait doesn't quite put it into context for me.
In the case of a wizard making mis-spellings, i would understand, but the culprit in this situation is a Druid who writes in dye. Seems pedantic, but no offense to anyone, pet peeves are understandable.
If you are going to use something, no matter what it is, you should do it correctly.
I agree with the sentiment of MrGrendel here as well, let us remain courteous to everyone rather than just go by whatever feels right (yet may very well be incorrect and not understood by others, thus of course killing off the purpose of written language as a means of communication in the first place, no?) to us at the time.
Good post. Seeing these terms used incorrectly doesn't bother me much but it's always good to know. Another one I've seen a bit is naught/nought. Naught doesn't mean "not" but rather "nothing."
"I will naught be of aid to thee."
vs
"I will have naught to do with him."
Only the second one is correct.
Nice post and appreciate the suggestions since I wold assume most of us did not grow up speaking old english. In trying to play a dwarf with a sprinkling of Old English and fake Scottich it can be dfficult (especially when imbibing the said Old English). I try to be consistent with my speaking and writing but I know it dosen't always stay consistent. All I can do is try. I believe last time this topic was posted the proper rebuttal was ... TASTE ME AXE!
All kidding aside, I do appreciated the help and will attempt to integrate your thee, thine, thou, and ye suggestions.