Two proposals. The first is I imagine relatively much easier and the second will involve scripting which could take some time, and/or be so difficult its not likely to happen at all. Which IMO, makes the first option the best.
1) Call Lightning gets reverted to its original state, in which it does not require a random and currently-unmodifiable weather effect to cast. This is magic we are talking about; if you can cast Lightning Bolt or Fireball (spells of the same level) without stormclouds or a nearby fire as the source of magical genesis, then why not Call Lightning? Picture if you will a druid sparking a dark cloud and bolt of thunder out of the warm tropical air.
2) If this is not agreed upon, I propose instead that clerics who worship certain gods and druids whom thematically embrace certain elements of nature should be able to craft, through consecration and possibly a ritual (that does not need DM assistance), a device enabling them to affect the weather in a local area.
For example-
A druid of Talos/cleric of Aril can call down a localized storm/call in a blizzard, and potentially destroy their enemies with Call Lightning.
--
As it is, Call Lightning remains extremely unpredictable to the point where it 8/10 times useless, which I think is a great shame - even a cursory glance at old forum threads reveals its an opinion many current DMs agree with!
The biggest issue I can see with Call Lightning is the shape and scope of it. A Firebal is a large blast radius for good damage but must be aimed. Similarly Lightning Bolt will go on a long line in a row vs. NPCs or PCs
Call Lightning hits all PC's in a fairly large radius without need of aiming or otherwise.
Given the nature of the suggestion though I think it'd actually be cool to do Call Lightning as per NWN regularly
Then during a Storm it gets cranked up to auto-Empowered.
Pretty sure they share the same AoE, with CL possibly being even smaller. You obviously -do- need to aim it!
Regardless, it is the current unpredictability of whether you can cast it or not, and the reliance many concepts have on this spell, that are the basis of these suggestions.
You don't have to aim it because it only hits hostiles. Your party will get angry if you misclick a fireball. They won't care if you misclick a default call lightning.
Maybe if it was changed to be like fireball and hitting all within the radius then it'd be fine.
Call lightning will actually target friendly targets in nwn1. It's in nwn2 that it is a radius around the caster that only targets enemies.
Quote from: Pigadig;273144You don't have to aim it because it only hits hostiles. Your party will get angry if you misclick a fireball. They won't care if you misclick a default call lightning.
Maybe if it was changed to be like fireball and hitting all within the radius then it'd be fine.
...that's how it works!
The range at which this spell can be cast is akin to the wild orcs fireball range, beyond what you can see.
Well that's obviously untrue, given you need to target the ground with it which you can't do if you can't see it. The range is the same as Fireball.
Quote from: KillerB;273153Well that's obviously untrue, given you need to target the ground with it which you can't do if you can't see it. The range is the same as Fireball.
Just like with ranged weapons you can adjust the angle of your camera to see further. And you don't have to target ground.
Yes, and thus it has the same effectiveness as Fireball does (if adjusted according to the suggestion). What point are you trying to make exactly? Also, it's radius is smaller than fireball in the default form.
It's the only decent druid offensive spell there is and on EFU it's pretty much useless unless under special annoying circumstances. Druids should be able to have a fine balance of offensive and defensive magics; but as I see it on EFU only defensive melee druids really ever prevail in combat.
Current implementation is flavorful but rarely useful. If I have to chose between the two I prefer useful.
In the default, it's equivalent to Fireball etc on two classes that also have good melee power and decent hit points. That seems to be a fantastic boost to classes that already are very strong in EfU by letting a Cleric play at being an Evoker without the drawbacks of low AC, HP and AB. I think RwG has the right idea, but it should be at a lower scale. Storm Domain is already ridiculous with having a mass KD spell at one level lower than mages get it, so you don't have to choose between Gust of Wind or "Fireball Style Spell".
Call Lightning
Indoors: 1d3 damage per 2 levels, for flavour purposes.
Outdoors: 1d6 damage per 2 levels.
Outdoors and raining: 1d6*1.5 damage per 2 levels.
That way it's close to Fireball effectiveness in the Rain but a real Evoker's still better. Without rain it's useful but not brilliant, much like how Hammer of the Gods and Flame Strike stack up against arcane offensive spells.
Lightning Bolt and Fireball work anywhere because offensive magic is the only method of attack that a Wizard or Sorcerer is good at. On the other hand, Druids and Clerics have melee combat buffs and good HP.
I agree that it is MAGIC and a druid should be able to conjure a small cloud, or since this is a tropical island and clouds are all around, call lightning from them! Now, if it's raining a boost could be implimented sure. It's just the spell is very useless, 90% of the time. Sure that 10% of the time it is wonderful! On a side not, I think it was changed to hit all NPCs/PCs not just hostile targets on EFU.
Currently, Call Lightning strikes everyone in the vicinity of the area effect for 1d10 per level.
Originally, it did 1d6 to all hostile units, ignoring friendly targets.
Adding a feature where druids or clerics with the STORM domain may summon a rainstorm for 1 minute per level, in where it takes 3 minutes to perform the ritual, would be a compromise to make the spell both useful and applicable.
Earnable only through being a good druid imo, this should be a reward for being that awesome.
Quote from: Spiffy Has;273217Currently, Call Lightning strikes everyone in the vicinity of the area effect for 1d10 per level.
Originally, it did 1d6 to all hostile units, ignoring friendly targets.
Adding a feature where druids or clerics with the STORM domain may summon a rainstorm for 1 minute per level, in where it takes 3 minutes to perform the ritual, would be a compromise to make the spell both useful and applicable.
I could be wrong, but not being able to use it at will all the time was probably the cost of making it almost twice as damaging.
I think weather modification would be absolutely wicked. I'd love to be able to summon thematic storms or cackles of thunder regardless of this or any other spell. If the weather change was localized (only one area) and there was a short timer on the effect (both before it starts and then duration before it goes back to normal), weather changing would be very immersive.
Quote from: Brimstone Sermon;273190In the default, it's equivalent to Fireball etc on two classes that also have good melee power and decent hit points. That seems to be a fantastic boost to classes that already are very strong in EfU by letting a Cleric play at being an Evoker without the drawbacks of low AC, HP and AB. I think RwG has the right idea, but it should be at a lower scale. Storm Domain is already ridiculous with having a mass KD spell at one level lower than mages get it, so you don't have to choose between Gust of Wind or "Fireball Style Spell".
Call Lightning
Indoors: 1d3 damage per 2 levels, for flavour purposes.
Outdoors: 1d6 damage per 2 levels.
Outdoors and raining: 1d6*1.5 damage per 2 levels.
That way it's close to Fireball effectiveness in the Rain but a real Evoker's still better. Without rain it's useful but not brilliant, much like how Hammer of the Gods and Flame Strike stack up against arcane offensive spells.
Lightning Bolt and Fireball work anywhere because offensive magic is the only method of attack that a Wizard or Sorcerer is good at. On the other hand, Druids and Clerics have melee combat buffs and good HP.
Firstly, this has nothing to do with clerics and druids being able to attack things.
Secondly, do you realize you more or less halved the damage of the spell with your suggestion, making it completely useless? Or was 'per 2 levels' a mistake, and you actually meant 'per level'? <_<
It has everything to do with clerics and druids being able to attack things. Generally divine spells are about disabling an opponent or buffing. They aren't usually very good at direct damage. The trade-off is Druids and Clerics can actually fight. Wizards and sorcs can be very good at direct damage spells, but their skill at weapons sucks. Which is why for example Ice Storm is L5 for Divine casters, L4 for Arcane. Default Call Lightning breaks those rules, which is why it's so powerful.
Currently it works really well in the rain and outside, and not at all without it. With our current weather system you have no control over when you can use it. To allow it to work really well anywhere would bring it back to the NWN version, which was a bit of a piss-take when you created a thunderstorm indoors. The exact damage numbers are unimportant, DMs don't cut and paste off suggestions when they can take a bit of time tweaking it to fit.
The point is that a progression from "cool for the effect but essentially useless" indoors for services to moderately useful outdoors, to relatively powerful in the rain seems a better progression. 1d6/level any time, anywhere puts it up there again with the L4 spell Flame Strike.
Also in saying clerics cannot do Direct damage, I would care to disagree.
Searing light is a potent direct damage spells, unblockable hit of divine energy, which nothing can stop, except certain items.
Hammer of the gods, Divine damage AOE, stuns and is easily spamable for damage and stunning
Due to various domains, you can get
From negative energy burst, to call lighting and more.
Clerics are not buffbots, for hand to hand crushing, they are a versatile class that can do that as well as being a direct damage, or a summoner, or as I said a buffbot.
Also with your flame stike comment, I would say that that is 1d6 of fire and divine per level. So, it is most deffinately not on par.
Also I cannot stress this enough, Divine is unblockable, so another spell would generally be better such as searing ray or hammer of the gods then call lighting.
I say leave it as it is.
Quote from: Brimstone Sermon;273570It has everything to do with clerics and druids being able to attack things. Generally divine spells are about disabling an opponent or buffing. They aren't usually very good at direct damage. The trade-off is Druids and Clerics can actually fight. Wizards and sorcs can be very good at direct damage spells, but their skill at weapons sucks. Which is why for example Ice Storm is L5 for Divine casters, L4 for Arcane. Default Call Lightning breaks those rules, which is why it's so powerful.
Currently it works really well in the rain and outside, and not at all without it. With our current weather system you have no control over when you can use it. To allow it to work really well anywhere would bring it back to the NWN version, which was a bit of a piss-take when you created a thunderstorm indoors. The exact damage numbers are unimportant, DMs don't cut and paste off suggestions when they can take a bit of time tweaking it to fit.
The point is that a progression from "cool for the effect but essentially useless" indoors for services to moderately useful outdoors, to relatively powerful in the rain seems a better progression. 1d6/level any time, anywhere puts it up there again with the L4 spell Flame Strike.
Wizards are the best offensive class in the game and you're quoting them as 'not being good with melee weapons' as a balance reason why clerics can't have access to a spell which isn't completely useless 90% of the time? Complete logic gap in your thought pattern there, and I'm not even going to bother elucidating on the other fallacies in your post.
This post was mostly just a reminder to DMs who may want to look at the issue... erroneous comments from the peanut gallery were foreseen but its still pretty annoying to see the thread hijacked by them.
Lenthis:
I never said druids or clerics cannot do direct damage. I said they are typically worse at it as they get equivalent spells 1-2 levels later than mages. A "Blow shit up Cleric" is doable, but without using crazy powerful domains like Ooze it's like trying to melee on a wizard. Possible, cool, but inefficient. Searing Light for example is a L3 spell that does about as much damage as a L1 Magic Missile to anything except undead. It's pretty funny with Sun Domain and Empower though.
KillerB:
You've rather dragged this thread off-topic yourself by quoting my entire post in every reply along with a couple of likes complaining that I said anything. I never said that "melee weapons" were the only tradeoff of arcane casters. I'm saying that with EfU's limited rest timer and heavy reliance on consumables, a druid's or cleric's melee and unbuffed defence power (BAB, AC, D8 hit die, strong Fort saves, animal form) becomes a lot more of a factor. A wiz or sorc trades stamina for a few big booms or good defense buffs. A divine caster out of spells during a quest or event can still fight on using potions, domain abilities, lizard form and so on. They can also go and 2-man quests by being the tank. You're new here so I'd really suggest you take a look at the Domains List. The really big deal with Call Lightning is...
QuoteStorm Domain
5/- Electric DR, L2: Gust of Wind, L3: Call Lightning, L5: Ice Storm
If Call Lightning becomes good everywhere, that becomes absolutely ridiculous.
I agree that EfU:M's often bizarre weather system where two close zones have different weather patterns does make Call Lightning a bit of a niche and ironically better when it's cast off an item, as you can just fire it when you want it rather than wasting a L3 slot. I like TNVW's idea, but I worry that it'd be a huge PVP advantage for ganking PCs outside quests. Set up storm, they can't make a campfire, you Call Lightning and wipe them out at a convenient location. it would however not be useful unless the area was safe to spend 3 minutes being sitting ducks. I have this feeling that weather changing may be implemented already as a DM-given reward, I'm sure Mort's mentioned it somewhere. Perhaps it could be done by requiring a rare consumable that works like Charged Powder, so you can't just set it up whenever you fancy.
Please excuse KillerB, he is new here.