So I tried searching the forums and couldn't find what I was looking for. I was wondering if there are any posts that describe the mechanics of the new songs in a little more detail. I found a nice post made by Easy apparently a while back that names some of them and gives a slight hint at their descriptors, but im wondering what the actual buff changes are. Im sure my character would feel them happening to her but I cant seem to keep track of all whats going on with the changes to my character sheet and some of the buff descriptors are really vague saying 'increase' but not how much, or what kind. Thanks guys!
zero replies? really people?? not even snide remarks?? By the gods bards must really be obscure..
This is likely to be a FOIG. Its really just a matter of making note of your character sheet before and after using bard song, and making note of the differences.
Beyond that, I imagine only a DM can tell you precise detail and only for the songs you already have.
This is definately an FOIG matter. Add the song to your songbook and it'll have a "hint" for some on selection. But for the most part you'll actually need to test them to see your buffs light up.
Forgive me but i dont see whats IC about my character sheet. The description on the song sheet says pretty much nothing about what it does.
Also, even if i do sit there looking at my character sheet it wont tell me key stuff like how much dr or how fast the regen is or how much movement is increased or what have you. I dont see how to go about obtaining this sort of info icly.
So, for example.
Before you "sing", your character sheet says Will Save: 2
After you "sing", it says Will Save: 5
In character, you could describe that as a song that boosts mental resolve. Depending on the magnitude of the increase, you could also use adverbs such as "great" or "minor".
So experimenting and doing comparative research on your character sheet is pretty much the only way to discover what they do. Communicating that in game is less about mechanics and more about translating it into in-game terms.
Does that make sense and/or answer your questions?
What about things that are more complex than will save such as the oens I mentioned in my previous post?
Experiment. Get a friend or two, use the song, hostile them, attack. Take notes on the DR and regen bonuses.
It's all about experimentation and experience. They're a lot more complicated than a wizards spell scroll, and though I do agree a bard should have at least an idea of what sort of magic they are casting, the only way you can find out is by testing.
I could be wrong about this, but this is coming off as more OOC to me than anything.
In many role-playing games you are allowed to see the bonuses of your abilities. Take every feat in nwn for example, items, and weapon abilities. These are all shown to us in an OOC fashion, we don't have to go hit things to see that our sword has +1 fire damage. I understand that lore comes into play here, so why can't it be the same for songs? Even if it takes a really high lore to do it, you are talking about the BARD class. The class who is the bane of DMs due to bardic knowledge.
Now you're telling me that a bard doesn't even know what their song does? So now a character must ICly recruit others, sing to them, and then ask them how they feel? Do you feel more capable of tumbling now? Here, after I sing, hit this dummy, and tell me if your blade is enchanted? Do you feel you have a stronger resolve or are less susceptible to charms?
I could be wrong, but this seems even less in-character than anything.
Is there an in-game way to actually uncover the abilities of these songs? I understand that the custom songs are a powerful "perk" to the gimped NWN bard. But is there any in-game sleuth work you could do, outside of looking at your character sheet repeatedly and attacking dummies? I, personally, don't see the point of this being FOIG, when the FOIG option is to most likely stand in an empty room, spamming your song and hitting the "C" key.
If this is just the way it is, I can probably understand. I'm sure the DMs have their reasoning.
In my experience what the songs do are incredibly intuitive. You sing. You notice the effects -- they go across the top of your screen.
"I found this ancient netherese magical song that's not been sung in 4,000 years, I wonder what crazy magic it has..."
There is nothing saying that you should know what the crazy magical properties of some ancient songs are without first singing them. Besides, there's one song that just instantly kills you. I bet nobody would sing that song if we just posted which one it is.
If you are so distracted by your lack of knowledge stick to regular bard songs, if you are curious to try other songs, do so and sate your curiosity.
One song that instantly kills you? I MUST FIND IT
Definitely an FOIG.
I do fully understand why the DMs don't want us to know all about this and it's cool. I will enjoy the day I play a bard again to try all this out...
Though saying that you gonna find out what happend to your guy ig by trying with your friends or whomever is in most cases just wrong. We all likely agree that a character sheet is one of the most oocly things ever. Sure you easily notice an increase in str, but how are you going to find out about that +2 will save for example? You notice a headache? Or you are going to ask your wizard buddy to cast his spellbook up and down twice on you to see if the song has any effect? Just to end up saying: I felt ten percent saver against your spell, but that could have just been because I had a good breakfast today or your spells suck. Why ten percent? Oh yeah, sure I just had a look at the print out that comes outta my bottom every time someone casts a spell on me.
There are near endless positive effects possible if the discription is kept unclear. Assuming that it will be something that is actually aidful to your guy in one way or another is only based upon our oocly understanding of this games' mechanics and the by-design limited ways of effects. In medival times a song that gets you a smoother shit would have been worth quite a lot and would have likely been appraised as an aidful song, still we already know that's not something we got to check when looking for the mechanics of this new fancy song.
tldr: Keep it as it is because it would ruin the fun to know, but finding out stuff about mechanics will always be ooc.
I suppose I just wish the descriptions were ever so slightly more indicative of what the song does. The old netherese chant for example...the description just says its an old chant and that its something of 'pure magic'. Well in a realm full of magic thats incredibly vague. Once my bard has sung the song and learned it, she should have a really good idea of what it does, since shes a bard and songs (and to a lesser extent magic) are her thing.
I can understand why you wouldnt want all the mechanics info on all songs up on the forums, since theyre supposed to be valueable and mysterious, but how about this...
Ive noticed this server has a lot of scripted text that pops up in the combat log. What about if once a bards learned and sung a song, some of that text pops up in the combat log and tells me a bit more of a description about what the song did? Even if it takes some amount of practice (being sung x amount of times) before the description pops up for you?
That seems way more reasonable for a FOIG than me just aimlessly wandering around hoping against hope that a dm would 1) have time to even respond to my inquiry IG via npc or what have you considering all the plot stuff theyre involved in, or 2) That there is a bard player out there (which there may be but so far i havent come across any who could explain things about my songs to me any better) who not only has somehow discerned the answers, but also is around to divulge them to me.
Would it be possible to write a letter for some answers to a bard NPC considering the lack of high lvl pure class bards?
I know you dms have a lot of suggestions already on your plates, but does it sound in theory like a good idea to you guys?
System is fine as is. Though, those suggestions really belong on the Suggestion forum.
Just my thoughts here, I found this rather annoying when playing my last Bard.
If playing a Sorcerer, you can come to the forum and decided which "background" you want. A Rogue, pick your "perk". Here you will see all bonus' you will get. But if playing a Bard, it's FOIG so you get to stand IG,(usually in a place without others around) sing to yourself, and try to figure out what the song does. How does that sound fun to anyone?
Now, don't get me wrong, I did it.. a lot, but it wasn't "fun". If this is how the DM's want it then fine, but think of what it would be like if a Wizard had to cast each spell to see what it did because the descriptors were removed, or a fighter had to use the armor, weapon, etc to see what it did. This is the Bards main "weapon" so to speak, and you get to play it blind.
Just a thought.
Quote from: sylvyrdragon;285390Just my thoughts here, I found this rather annoying when playing my last Bard.
If playing a Sorcerer, you can come to the forum and decided which "background" you want. A Rogue, pick your "perk". Here you will see all bonus' you will get. But if playing a Bard, it's FOIG so you get to stand IG,(usually in a place without others around) sing to yourself, and try to figure out what the song does. How does that sound fun to anyone?
Now, don't get me wrong, I did it.. a lot, but it wasn't "fun". If this is how the DM's want it then fine, but think of what it would be like if a Wizard had to cast each spell to see what it did because the descriptors were removed, or a fighter had to use the armor, weapon, etc to see what it did. This is the Bards main "weapon" so to speak, and you get to play it blind.
Just a thought.
While I do believe it should remain FOIG, I do think the actual song descriptors could use some work to give more obvious hints to what the song does.
The reason it's hard/shitty to name it on the forum is down to the vast number of songs, some possibly not even found as of yet.
Spells on efu generally are the same in both Nwn vanilla (albeit with some mechanical balancing in some). But the songs are specfically scripted for the server and all knowledge of all songs should be for DM discretion only.
TL;DR Better hints in descriptions but not full blown disclosure.
Well maybe itll get posted there Thomas, obviously I didnt intend to make a suggestions thread I made a question thread but i just so happened to make a suggestion several posts later. Thanks for the direction though!