I've noticed that since the introduction of the "battered" gear, Wild Orcs 1 seems to inevitably end up costing all my melee PCs far more than the reward and loot are worth. Previously it was a tough quest where you stood a reasonable risk of getting fugued, but the loot was useful enough or valuable enough to make the risk worthwhile, even if the pay wasn't that great.
Now though, the majority of equippable items you acquire will be useless junk. All the last runs I've done, I've come out with a loss, whereas the 3-7 quests usually profit my PC. I put this down mostly to Wild Orcs having a large amount of gear that can get tagged "battered or "ruined"
I don't think it's just bad runs, others in my party felt the quest was turning into a drain when I asked.
Could consumables be made a lot more common a drop on the end chests, or the gold reward increased significantly or something? Right now it feels like a very high-risk way of trading consumables for some XP.
A great deal of healing drops on this quest, which is always good. It will cost you a great deal in potions such as blur to finish it though, and more again in strength and the like if you haven't any spellcasters along.
Having said that, this quest can get crunched with ease by a strong group.
I think its probably fine as it is, from my experience.
Yeah, you get about 10-20 Cure Serious Potions and lots of herbs off the bodies usually, but the bone charms and stuff are by no means guaranteed, and you usually use more than turns up, I find.
I've done this quest with 3 man teams that walked all over it, and wiped on well equipped full parties. Quests don't need balancing for the strongest team but the average one. Any quest can be smashed by the right group, but you can't always get a couple of expertise fighters or whatever to hold the front on this.
I've not found any other quests where I'm considering turning down the chance to go on them because it seems like a big risk for little gain.
Whoop, there it is....
QuoteQuests don't need balancing for the strongest team but the average one.
A good point.
I've done this one three times, twice having been fugued and once having fled invisibly. The reward was worth the level loss in terms of permanent equipment I got on the last run, but in the previous runs that didn't prove to be the case. As far as consumables are concerned, the payout isn't there to justify the high risk of level loss in my mind. My current character doesn't have a reason to do this quest again OOCly.
I think this is one of those quests where you either get a little or a lot. I like it how it is. Very neat quest, I enjoyed it alot when I did it.
I'll add this:
If there is a way to limit how many of the damnable shamans are hurling fireballs around at one time, it would be more survivable. This quest seriously stretches the resources of frontliners which is fine, but when you are at or about half your hp then get "whumped" by three nearly simultaneous fireballs - you're literally toast and walking the fugue plane.
In the past DMs have said "what's wrong with that?" Nothing, if all the scripted quests are like this. Then you don't have a choice. Otherwise, people will avoid it after their character gets fugued a couple times on this one.
Unless you have a very good party made of mostly vets - you can easily get overrun and suffer a total party kill unless the casters/stealthers run like hell. Personally, I'd like quests to be geared at the middle so that I can RP with some newer players because it is so fun.
I really enjoy this quest due to the nearly constant action and the need for good tactics. Whoever designed this one did a great job. Just like to see the number of shamans cut down a bit.
Personally I enjoy the quest as it is, its tough, challenging and ensures that you don't go charging into with a 3 man party. The risk and reward balance is pretty fair as well, you might of just had the orc raiders that are pretty piss poor with supply use.
I love this quest, but sadly i hardly find any one who wants to do it if there's not two lvl 8-9 warriors, so i havn't had the opportunity to test it with an average group.
It does drop a hoard of serious heals, and the orcs come on slow, so there's plenty of healing/rebuff time.
As in all quests, there's two or three hot spots to manage, but they seem fine so far.
There is no point in asking the chinese kid in your engineering/physics class whether he thought the test was hard.
QuoteQuests don't need balancing for the strongest team but the average one.
The average team seems to do just fine, I've been in plenty of them.
QuoteQuests don't need balancing for the hopeless team but the average one.
A team with Ortred is not average.
Remember, you don't have to split the pay equally. You don't have to share loot by taking turns.
If you do things that way, someone will end up coming out better than they entered, while others very well may leave the quest at a loss. People don't USE resources equally, so why is there such insistance on sharing equally?
This probably won't solve all problems - sometimes you get nothing but Goblin Dung and Red Sharp Cheese. Most of the time I see at least three bone charms drop, though. That should be enough for the brave souls that were tanking!
(You did remember to have the tanks tank, and the flankers flank, right?)
I have routinely heard of this quest being crushed with nary a supply used. If it's too hard for team 'wants to be average but is not quite' then you can go do an easier quest. Not all quests should be easy. Not all quests should give amazing payout every time. Not all quests should be balanced for the average party.
Really Gippy?
I'm calling BS on this. I'll put my 3rd level stealther in a party and provide missle support so I can witness this first hand. Any takers?
"Crushed with nary a supply used". I sincerely doubt that.
@ScottyB:
This is an opinion I've got off doing the quest a multiple times after the introduction of "ruined" gear.
Before, generally if less healing dropped in the endchests, something else had to take it's place, like good equipment. Now, it is more common to get the "goblin dung and Cheese" end of things, as the "ruined" gear is as the name explains, rather useless, and takes up loot space.
@Gippy:
True, some quests should be hard. But only if the reward is commensurate with the risk. For example the old Tomb of Jubal quest could be a bitch, but inevitably dropped gear that was rare or valuable, and impossible to get anywhere else.
And yes, quests should be balanced for the "average build" team, because the result otherwise is Powerbuild Proliferation. An average PC team should be able to profit on all quests (overall, not in cases of bad run/shit loot rolls) *if* they have the right tactics. Otherwise, why quest if it just costs you supplies? Short of only questing with factions/favoured goons, your quest team will always be an average mix of whatever PCs are in that level range and suitable. Average=/=bad team, it means "what you get unless you rig it personally"
@daz
Ironically, have walked this quest 3 man repeatedly with a team of 2 powerbuild defensive goons because they can hold off in the right places and then split the supplies fewer ways.
I've repeatedly *wiped* it with large, decently equipped parties (the average questing team) because it increases the spawns and the chance someone will make a screwup. I'd say there's something wrong when I start fearing for my PC's life and supply situation as the number on our side grows.
I once watched this supply be defeated by four people, two fighters, two high level wizards. I buffed one, kept him buffed.
He only used four healing potions. The other used 6.
Who were the fighters, Thomas?
You conveniently left that point out. It does, make a difference you know.
Which is exactly the point.
Unless this has been changed in the last month, this quest pays just fine (on average). (I've only done it four times, I believe - twice I died, twice I made it; one time the loot was fairly poor, the other time it was so good that I stand by the first comment.)
As a helpful tip, the time my group /really/ crushed this quest was when using some spells you usually don't bother to use; which are also commonly found in items.
>_> The loot on this quest is absolutely -insane-. Most of the time, anyway, people won't be doing orcs if they don't have a decent weapon / armor set. Things that are battered and such, really only adds to the measure that orcs sometimes do not care for their armor / weapons.
Supplies are pretty awesome, though it is pretty hard to pick things up in the heat of battle. A break or two could be done with. As for shamans, what're you gonna do? Level 1 Fighter / 6 Sorcerer's are pretty strong, and they do spam fireball and combust, though think of it this way; Fireball hits the other orcs too! Though it is a bitch if you get hit up in the thirties. :(
Often the payout of a quest depends on who is collecting. I am surprised nobody mentioned that.
It does seem that if you start to get overrun, the spawns continue to trigger and the trickle becomes an avalanche, even though no one is coming forward.
This is just good monster AI? Maybe if the waves were more choreographed with a pause now and then, you'd have time to pull your FD'd members up and get re-organized. That would make for more RP opportunities I'd think.
All in all, seems like the variability of both loot and difficulty is pretty wide? Can these be tightened up, or is that just the random nature of scripting?
Thanks DMs and players for your POVs.
I just did this quest with a level 5 paladin, level 8 cleric, two level 7 rogues, and a level 8 barbarian/rogue and we crushed it handily and got a nice reward.
Niessen was Level 6. It was fun though, and from the looks of it there was a pretty neat reward.
Beef up this quest
Don't beef it up
More reward for this quest
Less reward for this quest
I won this quest
I died on this quest
It's too easy
It's too hard
Go wear womens clothing
... okay.
<3
Sorry NC, but I'm cursed with wanting to make suggestions that seem to divide the playerbase :P
[puts on a flowery bonnet]
Happy now?
I like flowers, so yes.
The quest is fine. Sometimes you get alot, sometimes you get the shaft. If it rewards you uber good everytime then it gets spammed to death and the quest becomes ruined. I do not think that is what the maker of the quest had intended for his work.