If a player send an application in for one of the three major DM factions, I feel their goals should be supported. I mean, you send an application in, the DMs see and approve your goals and aims for the server/character, why can't their be support for it? I can understand if you play in an association or a minor faction this wouldn't be the case but aren't the three major factions supposed be shaping the server in a major way? I just suggest that if the DMs don't want to support goals of an application to not pass it, as it's extremely aggrivating and a huge let down to be just ignored in a major faction. Also I can forsee the "Do things without a DM" or "It's not that way" responses. I have and many people do things without DMs but in a major server faction I think DM support should be aimed tword them, why else be in one? You could just make player faction with the same goals if you wanted little support if any.
More things going on and aid in the players goals to push faction goals and let the server see what the Wyrm Watchers are about or the Numinous Order or Transcendant Conclave, thats not OMG PVP KILL KILL. So much more is to these faction.
There is support. There shouldn't be faction events daily, that is just silly.
Major factions offer a set of goals / fellow players to work with along with fairly sweet loot, and almost guaranteed DM attention if you start rocking out and getting people interested in what the faction's goals are. They are enablers for you to do sweet things, and once you start rocking out, then you can ask for sweet perks.
Let's be honest a faction only rocks out because of the players in it. After Agneo left the Conclave / Died everyone was like: "Pfaw, Conclave's chumps."
Now it is up to the current crop of PCs to either make peace or prove that they're still capable of a good old reign of terror.
Why in the world are the Caermyn / Order / Gilded Arrows so successful? Because they're out in the game making alliances, slaying dragons, bringing in criminals, writing contracts, following their faction goals...
Could the Muster / Wyrmwatchers / Aberdenn be that successful? Easily.
Muster: Recruit heavily, take and document reports, catch criminals.
Wyrmwatchers: Tell people about the coming of the King, explain the nature of the crown, organize PC questing groups around finding clues, make alliances with natural allies -- the Aberdenn -- and bind them to your vision.
Aberdenn: Show Mistlocke why you were so needed. Go out and crush dragons, bears, whatever. Defend the environs of Mistlocke. Crush criminals / necromancers etc and pass them over to the Muster like old times.
Any other faction with a few proactive PCs could probably start having the same success, and the subsequent DM attention and rewards that go along with it.
I don't think what Plum is saying is that he expected or even wanted DM quest, OMG loot everyday, or even every week. What I think he is more on about are the 'minor' goals put in the applications. Those things that are not: "Find cure to Withering", "Find King".. etc.
The "Seek for odd lore about the island", "find the secrets left behind by X" goals. These are the goals, that you can wander the island daily, fight hordes of H'bala spawn, but if a DM does not take notice of the "boring" goals on an app, then they will never succeed.
We all know that not everyone can get the "slay the dragon" quest, and most of us know we probably never will. But, the occasional "you find X on So and So in the dark cave of the Webbed Woods" would be an unexpected and oh so welcomed surprise.
Oh, I should also add: As long as the player is actively seeking such IG.
Plum I do agree with you on this topic if it were a couple months ago. However as I've noticed the DMs are spread thin and every time ShadowCharlatan is on he is constantly doing things for people and attempting to help them...its just that he is one man and the DM team as I have seen it is not as full as it was just a little bit ago because they are busy with life/lost interest or? But when I see 1 dm online I believe that it is one of three dms. JaydeMoon, ShadowCharlatan or Talir. Alyssara is starting to be active again too. It is simply impossible for them all to be everywhere at the same time and make everyone feel noticed. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong, but this is what I'm seeing.
I've not been in-game in any real capacity for some weeks now. There's not a large amount of us active at the moment. What would be amazing is to have someone there for all of your activities and plots. We can't provide half that right now and ShadowCharlatan and the rest of the team around now are putting in an heroic effort doing what they do.
It's always good when you too do what you can in-game to support and pursue your goals. Even those requiring DM help. If you can't get any, make things up and continue forward. It may be that those guesses you make hit not too far of the mark, and through mistakes you'll eventually reach your goals. When you guys rock and make movements in-game, we cannot help but be drawn in ourselves.
I'm sorry that I've not responded to you, Plum. I fear you're not the only one.
Hang in there and try to go forward with what you have, faction pcs. It'll be better in a bit.
I appreciate the considerate responses of the DMs in this thread to a legit sentiment that I'm sure some of us have once in a while. Kudos for not being defensive and taking a patronizing or annoyed tone.
Being more active and visible might lead to a DM "getting sucked in" as they said, and prolly asking via Tell, PM or IRC about the little things.
Making sure you make note of the personal goals and what you are doing in the Personal Character Notes prolly helps too. Not saying you aren't doing this, but keep at it and it MIGHT pay off.
But - just like life - sometimes you do everything right and it doesn't work out the way you like. And that's just the way it is. We feel you though, bro.
Plum, holler at me IG and we'll go rock some junk. :D
Yeah, things have been kind of sparse lately.
I've finally fixed my connection issues, and have been in game a bit more the past few days.
Take heart! It'll blow over.
I think the thing that's most kept me motivated in the Order even through DM attention "dry patches", has been the occasional DM post in active threads on current topics.
Even if they're mostly Percy or Thalburg calling Walt stupid or a coward, heh.
IM(not so humble)O, I find that the players tend to ruin a lot of the faction and PC goals (NOT the DM's). What I mean is all factions have goals, each PC has personal goals, not all goals are going to be the same. There is nothing more anoying to me than a brand new PC joining a faction and saying all your goals are stupid, let's do mine! Actually, I dislike that player attitude so much I will almost ignore the players PC. Perhaps if more players joined a faction, actually read the faction forum, and then worked with the PC's already there, to meet the goals they've already been working on, then they'll help the new faction member attain the goal they're after. I just feel that the more PC's working to accomplish something together gets more attention from the DM's. More DM attention = more DM love.
Things shall come and go, take heart efu! There is much on the rise!
While Cerberus' tone is a bit acerbic, the underlying point is actually valid. You've got a handful of DMs, and people sometimes get wrapped up in their personal desires that they forget that this is meant to be fun for everyone. Sometimes the best way to achieve your own aims is to work to help achieve others'.
Second, re: goals on apps. That we approved your app does not mean we are going to cater to the achievement of the goals on your app. It is ultimately up to YOU to achieve your goals. You do this by playing in a dynamic and interesting manner that gets a DMs attention and makes them want to run your thing.
Wandering around silently collecting reagents, then sitting for hours silently working at the alchemy table perfecting various recipes for two weeks and then stepping back and going, "Dude, WTF, why is no DM helping me with my plot to craft X uber item like I stated in my application goals?!?" isn't reasonable ((VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: I made this scenario up, this is not me picking on anybody, just what I hope is a ridiculously obvious example of unreasonable thinking))
For myself, I tend to take notice of PCs who have gained the notice of other PCs and tend to run stuff for them. A PC that can get other players excited about their goals is probably also getting the attention of the DMs. That said, I only have X amount of time (and lately that X has equaled almost zero) and I will straight up tell you that there are PCs that I'm interested in running stuff for that I haven't, simply because I don't have the time to get to them.
Finally, on a personal note, I'm coming to the end of my personal upheavals. It's been a rough month moving and dealing with related issues. Sunday I leave for my two week annual Army Training event, where I will have connectivity (see you in IRC) but no access to NWN. After that, I should have more time for you guys.
Cool. Thanks DM team for your responses.
I know it doesn't directly adress the point, but sometimes you have to adapt your goals a bit, drop some and find new more appropriate ones when you hit the ground. As an example of Wyrm Watchers pc, my last one in there was focused around finding/crowning the king, obviously the most major faction aim. I included a ton of other things in my app and completed many of them, but sometimes when you are IG what seemed good originally may not be so feasible so instead you adapt what you had and work around what else is going on. As all the DM responses here have shown, efu is somewhat lacking DM numbers though those left are certainly present often from what i've seen, but it's generally cyclical. It's sort of cliched but players outnumber DM's vastly and thus assisting every single goal of every single person in a faction long term is close to impossible.
DMs have upheavals in life, just as players do. We come and go, time and again. We shouldn't apologise for this, but we do try and do as much as we can with the time provided to us. Hopefully as summer rolls up, both players and DMs will become more active, and with it the server will bustle as it has done in the past - until that time, continue having fun without us.
I'll forgive you in exchange for a "DMs of EfU" Summer Fun Calendar. Howland splashing in the ocean with Halfbrood, BoM and Talir kicking over Johannes sandcastle, and of course, Caddies in a bikini and cowboy hat.
that last one was a disturbing image >.<
http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291672#post291672
But all jokes aside, just do what you got to do without DM help. The factions are not meant to coddle and give you sick plots, it is meant to give you help with your own singular plots and abusing the faction for your own goals. The rest is just nice extra juicy things.
Alright it seems the DOC has to do a rant about DM factions.
Ok first of all DM factions provide plenty, and tons of support. Pay, gear, Storage, Free resting, An HQ to do your own plots, and stuff.
However if you join a faction just to "Furfill the faction's agenda" Then you honestly shouldn't be joining a DM faction, and should play some brute follower of someone instead.
DM factions are pretty much springboards for your own personal plots/goals. While upon joining the faction some of those original goals might change but you should definitely pursue your own agenda.
Also you will find your superiors giving you DM loot if you rock out, and make the faction prominent. In fact you can even join a faction with goals completely contradicting the intentions of the faction.
Heres an example of this
Sanctuary Watch Faction Goal- Enforce the law, bust criminals, Collect Fines, Enforce the councils will, defend the town from beasts.
What corrupt Dwarf Watchmen Koinus Sten did
Dealt with criminals, Enslaved people, Abused the law to have half-orcs arrested for crimes they did not even commit. Arrange for criminals to steal his own faction gear from him so he could get payed, Murdered people illegally for bounties.....ETC
Yet in spite of doing all these things he still earned the praise of many of his superiors. While yes your expected to perform the faction goals you also should use the faction as means to springboard your own goals.
I always abide by the philosophy that if your joining a DM faction with no original goals, and plan just to do nothing then "Do faction goals" Then you simply should not join said faction. Play some random thug willing to for anything or anyone if you have no original goals, and no original character ideas.
-The Docs advice.
koinus sten, end of.