I always though this was kind of done as a general rule, but could we recieve some kind of warning or alert if we're going to be spiced particularly on tough encounters. My most recent issue was on Kants where the boss was possessed and wiped most of the party with zero warning.
I know what you mean, I have had a few unpleasant spicing too, some of which a time ago destroyed all the loot, in 2 different quests >.>.
What would you do ICly different if you were OOCly warned?
Likely be more attentive. >_>
The fight really was not that different from all the times it's been witnessed. If you ask me, I was not even sure if it was controlled by AI or DM, and it made little difference in that situation, because the guy does everything he did all normally.
DM controlled and normal AI is very different and given the power of that npc a curteous warning that it was possessed would have been nice. I won't discuss specifics of that fight but there are some major factors that come into play.
I'm not really a fan of alerting people that they're being spiced. The fact that you act differently when you know there's someone up there controlling them compared to just mechanically crushing a quest you've memorized and mastered is comparable to metagaming, at least in my eyes. I'd much prefer to reward people who just roll with it, and manage to overcome without foreknowledge.
Look at it this way. It'd be like having the person who is about to PvP you alert you he's going to do it and ask permission before attacking. Not quite on that scale perhaps as I'm not attempting to kill you when I spice, just challenge you, but its still something to think about it.
I'll let the other DMs weigh in on it, but that's my own personal viewpoint. My views don't necessarily reflect the collective opinion of the staff, or the rules, so don't take it as such.
I wasn't there, but out of curiosity, why are you so convinced that the DM possession was the key thing that crushed the party?
I've possessed Kant before and, often, doing so actually makes him -easier- because I can conveniently steer him towards the exploding pillars.
The standard Kant obliterates folks a-plenty.
Doesn't feel necessary to me.
Quote from: BrittanyPanthas;292001I'm not really a fan of alerting people that they're being spiced.
I'm gonna side with Alyssara and BoM on this one. However, a good DM lets you know in very subtle ways that they're present. It's a technique I've seen that really makes me get ready to soil myself. Such things as the silent NPC suddenly giving emotes, or enemies giving dialogue that is way beyond scripted, etc etc are enough. I love that!
Stay on your toes and pay attention, and be thankful that your mindless grind is now a personal ass-kicking! Thank you DMs for keepin it immersive.
Sry OWN.
Spice ROCKS, even if it kills you... :twisted:
Just to clarify though. If I intend the spice to be an overwhelming potentially party wiping challenge I typically give IC clues. But I don't do this unless they're players I respect, who respect me and the challenge they're receiving and are willing to use OMG supplies beyond the minimum to win. If they win their reward is typically amazing.
Sometimes the AI just runs completely wild and pwns your world at any rate lol. I've had it happen to me multiple times as a player.
The AI has been improved drastically in some cases from how it originally was. It could be much like what Wcsherry has stated.
In my experience it's not the boss possessions that effect my playing reaction. But the smaller NPC possessions that a bit of warning would be nice. As a for instance; (way back when) I once killed an ice mephit that flew up behind my PC unexpectedly. Only to find out later, when the party was kinda stumped as to what was happening, that the imp was going to give us a clue but I killed it before it could really talk.
The Minthrilsouls rocked by the way. Moral of the story; You shouldn't sneak up on a dwarf without warning. ;)
We were spiced.
Dms generally give fair warning and an opportunity for the PCs to retreat.
Just saying.
We got plenty of fair warning IC, and adjusted our tactics accordingly. We had to go slower, but we made it. Barely.
Don't be afraid to be a little bit of a scaredy cat.
Quote from: Diz-e;292010However, a good DM lets you know in very subtle ways that they're present.
This is all i meant really, its just nice to know to expect a great increase in challenge rather then half way through a boss fight suddenly it becomes 10x more difficult and you have already exhausted most of your spells/abilities.
Without any emoting or subtle hints it just seems like it doesn't add much "spice" to the quest except to cause chaos and confusion. For that particular encounter if i was going to possess the boss or something given the conditions of the fight i would have emoted something directed at the PCs of the party "You are too late my old associates, nobody can stop me now!" etc..
I should add the spice itself was a nice addition and it wasn't like unbeatable or anything. (infact it was beaten in the end) its just i think had the party been given some kind of warning they were about to face this greater challenge it would have been played about slightly differently. its not really an issue of metagaming but more preparing yourselved for a similar scenario to PVP then PVM. For example.. On a quest you would assume that the warrior is going to keep the attention of the mobs while you shoot your arrows or blast them with your magic whereas if a DM has possession of a mob or group of mobs they could very well break through your lines and target the mages/distract the healer etc..Most people will enjopy DM spice its just nice to be able to mentally prepare yourself for the challenge ahead.
Anyway this is getting a bit rambly now this is just my thought and i always thought it was DM policy to give slight hints. (pretty sure i've seen it written somewhere)
In all honesty, when you do a quest be prepared for anything, and treat all npcs like a pc, if he is starts buffing oddly prepare yourself as well, if you see an army of npcs that aren't there normally get ready, there is no excuse for the unprepared to demand warning. If you see something strange, take note, your pc is an adventurer, you are the most adaptive person on the world. Your ability to adapt to challenges is the reason your still alive. So live with what changes and rush head on once your ready.
Dm's are here to make the experience more enjoyable and rewarding. If you can't take that heat, the doors behind you.
...
Quote from: Lenthis;292098Dm's are here to make the experience more enjoyable and rewarding. If you can't take that heat, the doors behind you.
I would like to note this is not the collective opinion of EFU and you're more than welcome to stay if you do not enjoy DM spice.
The opinion presented here is ridiculous. Not all Players want to deal with the stress and excitement of Spice (it IS stressful, it IS exciting) after a hard day. And questing is a way to relax and a method of catharsis for some of us. While I enjoy spice and embrace every challenge possible, (sometimes loosing) I find myself sometimes wishing I wasn't spiced because I had a rough day, and this death made the day that much more shitty. Understanding that, we press on and fill the server with awesome.
EFU is a place of coming together and a community, telling people to leave because they do not like an aspect of it is akin to removing a hobo from a church because he thought the cushions were not soft enough.
Lol. People complaining about getting DM attention. Ridiculous.
Reminds me of when the player list was still visible.
"Oh no, Wiggyboy and sherry are online! Forget it, I'm not going!"
Really silly this thread is
then why are you reading it?
There goes anything productive this thread could have given birth to.
Lock please.
Quote from: Spiffy Has;292103I would like to note this is not the collective opinion of EFU and you're more than welcome to stay if you do not enjoy DM spice.
The opinion presented here is ridiculous. Not all Players want to deal with the stress and excitement of Spice (it IS stressful, it IS exciting) after a hard day. And questing is a way to relax and a method of catharsis for some of us. While I enjoy spice and embrace every challenge possible, (sometimes loosing) I find myself sometimes wishing I wasn't spiced because I had a rough day, and this death made the day that much more shitty. Understanding that, we press on and fill the server with awesome.
EFU is a place of coming together and a community, telling people to leave because they do not like an aspect of it is akin to removing a hobo from a church because he thought the cushions were not soft enough.
This is why some players have to take long breaks from the stress sometimes, both from the IG and the community. EFU is not someplace to settle in with a book, a fire and lull yourself to sleep.
Same reason people DIE when they drink too many energy drinks. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THAT MUCH AWESOME.
No but seriously, if you're looking for something you can just unwind and relax without any fear of something unexpected happening, EFU probably isn't the best place to look for that sort of entertainment in. If you want thrilling adventures, epic stories and certainty of death.... EFU is where you hook up your adrenal glands.
He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Generally we do give warnings when spicing quests.
As I believe this thread is here because of a specific instance where your insanely well looted PC died when he could have used any number of the 10's or 100's of potions he had when the boss on a quest you had done 20+ times used its spells effectively, feel free to contact a DM.
DM's spice quests for a variety of reasons. One of them is to remind players that every quest you go on is different, and perhaps this premonition and untouchable wizard, unlike the last one (or 20? lol you spammed this quest a lot) is actually scary.
Perhaps, had this been the first time you did this specific quest and had just been locked into a room with defense obelisks guarding the sole exit, and a magical wizard that you can't seem to figure out how to harm, your 10 wisdom PC would have figured to prepare adequately.
DM's will let you know that they are there. This can be in the shaking of a room or the guttural shout of a gnoll. The DMs are not out to assassinate specific PCs silently from the guise of a somewhat smarter boss. Obviously when you die you may feel this way... but it's wrong. In some instances, they are there to balance the game world and provide for a randomness that a computer cannot.
Nothing to make a DM feel appreciated like a good old fashioned bitterness thread!
Oh no someone's about to make my day more interesting and give and my party personal attention for while, not to mention some extra loot! You should warn me about it! >.<
Well uhh I'm going to go and say thank you to the DM's that add spice, even for some of the spice where I'm in an entire party that gets wiped out, several times over.
The only time I dislike DM involvement is when Perm death is a possibility and that's more the fact I've likely begun growing attached to said PC and as most of the time DM's let you know if there's a fair chance of perm death, I'm fine with that even.
I'd say keep up the good work, particularly to whoever the evil jerk was that added a burrowing Minotaur to the Well quest a few days back... that thing was nasty :)
Eddie.
The BURROWER was not to be trifled with!
I guess, until he died.
As someone who has died repeteadly to DM quests, and DM spice, Died repeteadly involving alchemy and other chaotic situations.
I say BRING ON THE SPICE!
Some people like it, others don't, most with moderation, we know.
Though, I've yet to see a situation where the pcs aren't warned occly in some way. Perhaps someone forgot to, most likely you missed the clue. At the end of the day it's no biggy.
Spiced or not, remember:
- casual metagaming is bad
- pcs can and should flee sometimes
- use consummables without counting and you usually get through hot spots. Hoard them and risk probable death,
- when a dm's on possessing a single creature, maybe trying another tactic than casual video game buffing/slashing is worth a try. Things like bluff, persuade, intimidation, traps, or anything your creativity comes up with, well, with a dm on is the time to shine. Orcs, gnolls, trogs, goblins... they speak, you know. Especially if you've butchered their tribe, they've reason to listen.
In the end, we don't spice to kill, though we may kill spicing.
On this note, locking topic as the point got across.