Enchanting Wands
I know this has been talked about before, but I have to say, I am not a bit fan of the wands only being able to enchant at their lowest levels. Already, gold is very difficult to accumulate…so when a wizard finally has enough coin to enchant a wand at 6 lvl and gets a want that is lvl 3, it is kind of let down feat.
I would say that wands should be beefed up a bit.
Domare
There isn't a whole lot of say in the matter. Some spells do not have mid-level caster levels for item properties. The work involved in finding what spells do have multiple appropriate caster levels for the EFUA level range, and using them in some sort of scaling, would be immense and probably end up being "unfair" to certain spell schools or something.
Too much work for an imperfect solution, with not enough benefit.
Not a "sliding scale, sure, but some wands/scrolls, *really* need a buff. Example, Magic Missile.
Right now, you pay 600 gold for a wand that's only twice as powerful as a 60 gold cantrip wand. It's not cost effective at all. This was a bit of a shock when I expected to get a l9 wand for my money (I tested in OC so as to avoid wasting gold), then got a l3 one. Same goes for Burning Hands/Negative Energy Ray I assume. L9 may be overpowered as it's more than the caster's level, but l5 isn't, and they can all be cast at L5 off items, I've seen items that do it.
I did ask before for a list of crafted item caster levels to make all this more transparent to new crafters, but didn't get a response. Generally, wands are fine. They allow you to immediately unleash a stun on something, invis or buff people.
Hovever, for 1st Level offensive devices they are quite poor, except for Color Spray, where caster level only affects the DC does nothing. Which is a major shame, as a wizard wanting some basic firepower will try for these wands. If all of the 1st Level damage spells cast at l5, then they would be worth the cost.
I don't think wands are really intended to be high-powered offensive weapons. Use your spells for that. Wands are more of a utility option.
Many a crazy monster has been destroyed by the soft pinging of magic missile wands. I do believe that wands are far less useful in EFU:A then in EFU. I do not think this is generally a bad thing. A wizard will have a few wands, but my fighter/rogue, will also have but a few wands instead of the haste/ii/gmw etc that I could expect to have had on the old server. This makes the wizards magic much more useful I think.
Looking at it from a IC sense, wands are only meant to infused with a small amount of energy from the weave. A wizard can channel as much energy as they can handle from the weave to cast their spells, as it is only kept within their body for a few seconds.
On the otherhand, wands are constantly ready for use when needed, so you don't have to waste spell slots on memorizing the spell. You do however have to make do with the power that is currently in the wand.
Quote from: Gippy;104352Many a crazy monster has been destroyed by the soft pinging of magic missile wands.
You could do the same thing with Acid splash/Electric Jolt/Ray of Frost wands. For the same price you could carry 3 of each in case of resistances and take your pick.
@ caddies
I'd say that since most wizards run buff loadouts generally, "blow stuff up"
is a utility option. Wands are only worth it for stuff you use in bulk and need suddenly. That's mainly offensive spells, stuns and invis so you can kill, paralyse, or run away from the problem. And since buff devices don't last long, generally better to have your spells as buffs, a couple of emergency spells (polymorph, HP or something) and wands/scrolls to cover random problems.
Compared to other l1 spells, damage wands get the short end of the min levels. Even short duration Magic Weapon/wards are useful to push past a tough situation. Color Spray, the caster level doesn't matter anyway. Burning Hands/Magic Missile.... "Sorry? Did I pay 600 gold for this?". It seems the most useful wands (blur, MW, haste etc), are oddly the ones least used by mages themselves.
Burning hands, maybe not increase it, as l5 for that is pretty strong, but a mid-level Magic Missile/Ice dagger/Negative Energy Ray wand would be a reasonable, cost-effective weapon, not an expensive plinking device. I've used l5 Negative Ray loot a fair bit, and it's a decent punch to fire from the back when you need a bit more than cantrips or a crossbow. That level of loot is hardly uncommon, so l5 wands wouldn't be overpowered.
The L3 wands are fine, 5d6 AOE dmg off those spells is nasty, but the low level firepower is seriously weak.
Wands are your reserve, and are useful when out of spells, especially spammable ones like Magic Missile
Wands never miss. For magic missle, 600 gold get's you a guaranteed-to-hit (in most circumstances) approximately 175 damage. That's far more HP than just about any creature on EfU has. Increasing that one step gets you another 87 damage, AND more damage per second. This is not something to scoff at.
Other wands clearly follow the same pattern. I think it's pretty unarguable that wands incredibly powerful on low level servers...and the high level wands are particularly devastating.
If you want to cast high level offensive spells and totally rock a spawn (or PC!) or two, you can memorize those spells when you get high level. It's just not fun when a 5 ftr / 1 bard can be dominating the scene with level 9 MM and level 13 ILMS.
We haven't made a list of what level EFU wands are crafted at because just making that list is an immense project. I believe I mentioned that last time you talked about it.
Wands do what they're supposed to - they're spells for if you run out of spells or don't prepare those spells. They're also spells for rogues. This can be game-changing. It's not meant to be a simple choice where you escalate the power of what wands you have based on your available gold. If, in your judgement, a Magic Missile wand isn't worth it, then don't make/buy it.
Just because most wizards run around with only buffs prepared doesn't mean you have to. Why should a mage have to prepare a bunch of Magic Weapon spells with their precious slots? Why not have your mage cast MW from a wand, and use those level 1 slots for your more powerful Magic Missiles? Same for other buffs. It may be expensive, but demand a larger cut for keeping everyone continually buffed (and never running out of buffs!) as well as contributing to the damage. Lately I feel like I should describe EFU:A as an RP-PvP Tactical SimIsland. "Knowing your place" and having the game tailored to support that place is lame; you find your place, or make that place yourself, and rock out from there or have a blast trying. Making effective use of wands is a challenge, and that's not a bad thing.
[blink]
I was suggesting caster level 5 wands, not l9. I was only pointing out that OC test runs don't give any clue as to the level of spell to expect here.
1st level damage spells are the only wands I reckon are underpowered for the cost. Combust isn't heavily level dependent, Fireball etc do good damage over an area at l5 and are priced accordingly.
Even with Caster Level 5 wands, the hypothetical Fighter/Bard would be better off using Magic Weapon and just whacking a PC target, since they're bound to have Blur up, so Missile would bounce off.
Yes, a MM wand can deal say 175 dmg. Over 25 turns. In small, packets. NE ray/MM wands are neither cheap weapons nor hefty hitters worth the cost. I'd rather save the cost of making a couple of those wands and get myself some cantrip wands and a dispel/bardic healing wand/20 bottles of Alchemist Fire or something. Burning Hands, maybe less so, if you have the need to wipe out a horde of goblins up close or something.
I'd just like the 1st level offensive wands to be as handy to have as the buff ones. Comparing the use I got out of a colour spray wand or PfX wand to a Magic Missile/Negative Ray wand, unless I have a ridiculously rich wizard, sorc or backline bard with crap DEX, or really need to heal a lot of zombies, it's just not worth it.
This is why I always play evokers, to be perfectly honest.
I have far more fun blowing shit up, and Rping through out the quest, than buffing everyone at the very beginning, and then shooting poorly with a crossbow. I like my wizards high-octane and in ur face, imo.
Put buffs on Wands, as Strife said, if you've got the gold.
Then charge people for you to buff them. :D
@RwG
I really should when I get back to playing a mage, now there are a lot more quests that don't feature undead and especially Spell Resisting Bastard Nightrisers XD. I even made that letdown of an MM wand to help me in blowing stuff up more.
@ScottyB:
OK I really just meant "list the levels for most stuff up to say l3, and the fact that Missile Storm costs a ton". Nvm. I shall do it myself. Slowly. :D
Sure, I could do that, but I still reckon there are a few wands that could be useful at a higher caster level but aren't worth the money, all of them offensive and l1.. Therefore I'm suggesting they be improved. Yeah, I could find ways around it. Or I could explain why they aren't and try to change it. Especially as they are the wands that it's fairly pointless for a rogue or something to spam anyway.
So, to sum this up:
-Magic Missile, Negative Ray and Burning Hands wands are weak.
-Everything else is fine or you'll never really want a wand of it anyway.
-Plz make them better, it's sad to see them being lame.
-I'm leaving it at that, if I keep reponding to this thread, I'll just waffle on about the same stuff :P.
If the price of a wand does not properly reflect the wand's power level, the answer is not to adjust the wand's power level.
Imo, both side have good points. But the best option wold be to lower costs of things like MM wands. And by raising the power of wands you just stand to make people who play say... fighter 5 rogue 3/4 builds just imba...
"oh look that guy is running away!" "Don't worry ill just use my lame stacks of UMD to use this wand and fry his ass..."
See my point?
How about allowing people to craft items with higher-leveled spells with the use of metamagic feats? Extend would be the easiest to balance and would make the most sense, I guess.
Quote from: Snoteye;104513If the price of a wand does not properly reflect the wand's power level, the answer is not to adjust the wand's power level.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the lower end offensive wands cheapened a bit. I don't think cantrip wands a bad value, but the price of some of the level 1 spells wanded in terms of what you get is meh.
Force damage from magic missile is nice but hardly makes up for the fact its otherwise indisinguishable from a cantrip wand.
Quote from: Szgk;105694How about allowing people to craft items with higher-leveled spells with the use of metamagic feats? Extend would be the easiest to balance and would make the most sense, I guess.
Aside from the fact that I frankly don't think any of us really want to do this (it would be a massive undertaking for little gain) we're wary about both balance and economy. I do think it would make more sense than varying spell levels, but do not believe it would not easily become exploitable.
Quote from: Semli;105709I wouldn't mind seeing some of the lower end offensive wands cheapened a bit.
You are more than welcome to make suggestions. Specifically Magic Missile, however, is already a strong spell in that it deals a reasonable amount of damage, has no save, and can't be resisted unless you're prepared for it (or you have SR).
Okay.
Burning Hands and Negative Energy wands should go for 300 or so.
Sleep and Scare wands, since the HD limit of such spells make them effectively useless against most QA fodder, should be priced right around what cantrip wands go for. If you would rather discuss changing the mechanics of these spells, go here (//%22http://escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?p=105712#post105712%22).