EFUPW Forums

Main Forums => Suggestions => Topic started by: Cruzel on January 16, 2009, 02:32:37 PM

Title: Anti-minimap.
Post by: Cruzel on January 16, 2009, 02:32:37 PM
The minimap gets abused, a lot. Finding party members, escape routes, tunnels you missed, etc.

I think it would be better if we did away with it. Every  10-30 secs, whatever. the time doesn't really matter, but every time the duration is reached, the map is completely blacked out for that player.

This could be avoided if the PC has a map item of that area in their inventory. It would be much more interesting if PCs didn't have a fair idea of EXACTLY where to go, which ramp to take, unless they specifically had a map.

Quote from: Cruzel;105324
Quote from: "Someone else"Turn the map from an OOC tool to an IC tool. Black out mini-maps as normal, allowing you to see new parts of it as you go, but when you leave the area then it should reset. Unless you use a map of the area.

Isn't there already a map script in place though?

This is the CORE of the idea. You can see where you're going as you go there, but you don't have a crystal clear image of the area forever. The idea is that people need to buy maps, or they will get lost.

Getting lost is fun, and discourages some over eager party members from just totally running ahead (Which a LOT of people on EFU do, btw) and completely ditching their party with no idea of where they went. I would much rather see people running around LOOKING for their party than just metagaming the exact location on the map.

This is ridiculously easy to script, btw. There is a oneline function that will clear the minimap completely. Adding a timer and a check for the maps would be simple as pie. The entire script would probably take around 30 minutes to write/mainly test.
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Post by: Mort on January 16, 2009, 03:02:00 PM
Possibly. Not sure how to do that thought.
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Post by: IxTheSpeedy on January 16, 2009, 03:43:34 PM
Please, please, please don't do this.  I have a terrible sense of direction IRL and IG...

No really, I'll get lost IG all the time without my little mini-map...
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Post by: Conan The Conqueror on January 16, 2009, 04:28:25 PM
I don't see how the benefit of this outweighs the hassle it would create for both players who experience it and DMs who script it.
It just seems like needless regulation. So what if people find party members?

The map is in place to overcome limitations of the gaming engine. You can have a party member within visual range and not be able to see them because limitations with camera angle or view distance.
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Post by: PanamaLane on January 16, 2009, 05:27:59 PM
Nay. Like Mr. Speedy, I'd get lost often without it. Like Mr. Midnite, I don't see a problem using it to overcome said limitations of the game engine. A little OOC is ok, if it makes the trivial roadblocks easier for players to overcome.
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Post by: Joe Desu on January 16, 2009, 05:52:48 PM
How about before you get your group to go into the quest area, see if everyone wants to play a little hard core and not use the minimaps?
 
Admittedly the quest may take longer as either folk get separated and try to get back together again, or some folk may end up walking into spawns in a different direction, or by running away from the boss you get further stuck in the hellohole you walked into.   Interesting indeed.
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Post by: Egon the Monkey on January 16, 2009, 06:48:15 PM
No. nononono....
The Minimap is an OOC tool that lets you make up for the fact you can't:
Tell where an allied PC is easily by hearing them.
Have an effective field of vision behind you as your PC can't turn their head to look back, and camera swinging is a hassle.
Actually have your characters draw sketchmaps in a journal.
Play a PC with good direction and route knowledge if you haven't been on in a while and have forgotten the way, but your PC would have been there...
...And so on.

Maps are annoyingly large in the inventory and can't be added to a binder.

Cruzel, if you're that bothered, complain personally at or of the people who abuse the map for stuff way out of their PCs hearing/sight range, not everyone else who uses it well.
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Post by: lovethesuit on January 16, 2009, 06:58:24 PM
Turn the map from an OOC tool to an IC tool. Black out mini-maps as normal, allowing you to see new parts of it as you go, but when you leave the area then it should reset. Unless you use a map of the area.

Isn't there already a map script in place though?
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Post by: MisterPAIN on January 16, 2009, 07:30:49 PM
Uh let's not alienate newbies, they get lost already with the mini-map.  Keep in mind anyone can make footprints in dust, most likely the soil is soft enough from constant rain to make them anyway, and there is no system for such things when in the real world they are perfectly visible.  While people are not trackers a bunch of footprints made in the same number of the party's feet would be otherwise visible in a fantasy world of a perfect realistic as life EFUA video game with real life graphics.
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Post by: Johannes on January 16, 2009, 07:36:39 PM
I'm /really/ not keen on this.
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Post by: Sternhund on January 16, 2009, 08:45:34 PM
I dislike this suggestion in its entirety. This sounds like an amazing way to chase away new, lost players.
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Post by: Letsplayforfun on January 16, 2009, 08:50:19 PM
Hiden server on gamespy.
Hiden plots.
Hiden factions.
Hiden PC list.
Hiding names.
Hiding minimaps.

Let's hide EfUA once and for all.

Seriously, keep things simple. Too much is getting players away from the server. I'm sure there's more urgent work than this. Not that i don't agree with you, Cruz, but that's getting too elitist imo.

Remember, as much as an excellent rpg server this is, it's still a video game.
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Post by: lovethesuit on January 16, 2009, 09:18:36 PM
We're hidden on gamespy? what

but yeah

I agree with hiding names actually.
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Post by: MisterPAIN on January 16, 2009, 09:35:35 PM
While hiding names is good in theory it would just end up with people in groups asking someone's name again over and over and over again since we all know some people are not too great at names.  And even if I would remember I would still ask IC over and over again to annoy the shit out of anyone that promoted this idea.
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Post by: Cruzel on January 16, 2009, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: lovethesuit;105260Turn the map from an OOC tool to an IC tool. Black out mini-maps as normal, allowing you to see new parts of it as you go, but when you leave the area then it should reset. Unless you use a map of the area.

Isn't there already a map script in place though?


This is the CORE of the idea. You can see where you're going as you go there, but you don't have a crystal clear image of the area forever.  The idea is that people  need to buy maps, or they will get lost.

Getting lost is fun, and discourages  some over eager party members from just totally running ahead (Which a LOT of people on EFU do, btw) and completely ditching their party with no idea of where they went.   I would much rather see people running around LOOKING for their party than just metagaming the exact location on the map.

This is ridiculously easy to script, btw. There is a oneline function that will clear the minimap completely. Adding a timer and a check for the maps would be simple as pie. The entire script would probably take around 30 minutes to write/mainly test.
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Post by: Random_White_Guy on January 16, 2009, 09:55:54 PM
Sincerely dislike this suggestion.
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Post by: Cruzel on January 16, 2009, 09:56:45 PM
( it would easily be possible to omit areas like the main ziggurat area from this blanking)
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Post by: efuincarnate on January 16, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
I usually like Cruzel's suggestions, but just hate this one..still have a terrible time getting around with the minimap, without it, absolutley hopelss..and ig, my char should know his way around quite nicely by now..it is a computer game, afterall. If you make it tooo much like rl/work, it will suck the fun out of it, IMHO.
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Post by: The Crimson Magician on January 16, 2009, 11:21:48 PM
I would figure that there's some sort of override that does that. Or since you're so good at scripting, Cruzel, I think you could do that. >_> But yeah, I have a problem with the mini-map, as it makes me metagame, since I have developed a habit to open and close it, without even thinking about it.
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Post by: Cruzel on January 17, 2009, 12:46:35 AM
OP adjusted to clarify suggestion for those too lazy to read the whole thread.
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Post by: ExileStrife on January 17, 2009, 01:02:50 AM
I would like the pink character location dots removed for players personally, as well as the small arrow and the ability to hover-over-the-party-icon-and-get-their-current-area.  But unfortunately, that's handled client side, and the client executable is encrypted unlike the server client.

The other method to do this is to disable parties altogether which I have heard some servers have recently tried and was done successfully.  Changes the way players play a bit, and definitely requires changing of a lot of scripts, but I'd like to hear from players if they've tried these servers before.

I don't think it would make sense to black the area on the map.  I think the vital metagaming issue is the pink dots, and blacking the area does nothing to remove those.
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Post by: RealGenius on January 17, 2009, 01:17:44 AM
The pink dots are often metagamed, true, but there are other OOC issues to take into account.  In real-life, people do not have different transition load times, do not randomly go AFK and get left behind.  When people are travelling in a big cluster it's not very common to just lose somebody and have that person not be able to catch up.  (I am thinking of sparsely populated areas, in a large city getting lost in the crowd is pretty easy).  It is bad when people use this to magically track down somebody whose battle icon is flashing under their portrait, or when somebody mysteriously runs off without telling the party and somehow, magically, everyone finds them, but it is a good thing, I would say, in situations where somebody has a slow load time but otherwise no IC reason where they wouldn't be able to keep up with the group.