This is a case of prevention is greater than cure. Though I have certainly experienced the negative side of this in the past.
Your PC might be an uneducated, trash-for-brains bogan or they might just hate the creature type, but you as a player must show some courtesy to a mage's familiar, if you intend to attack it and it is neutral, in the place of being unable to readily set it hostile, you should make threatening emotes and confirm that the player controlling the familiar is aware of the potential for the familiar being attacked.
Also keep in mind that game mechanics can be a limitation, if a familiar is right next to someone, it might in fact be perched upon their shoulder or it could be flying out of melee ranged if it is airborne and other such things. Of course the PC controlling it can and should emote such limitations as well, but again this relies on someone not charging the thing to death immediately on sight.
Losing a familiar incurs XP loss, it represents a very significant agony inflicted upon the mage who it was bound and attacking it constitutes PvP to which standard rules apply.
Please keep this in mind when you interact with those fuzzy/feathered/furry/slimy little critters.
Thank you.
QuoteAlso keep in mind that game mechanics can be a limitation, if a familiar is right next to someone, it might in fact be perched upon their shoulder or it could be flying out of melee ranged if it is airborne and other such things.
Pretty sure it requires a DM to overcome mechanics, and not your RP of a bird flying above. Just FYI! However, attacking a familiar does require a dm I think, in accordance with the other rules that require one at least
I would assume you'd need a DM in an NPC area in order to attack a familiar; but I'd also assume things like Imps and Quasits/Mephits etc require a DM to be out and about in an NPC area as well.
Right, evil familiar types and the more exotic variants DO require a DM present in NPC populated areas, it is stipulated in the rules I'm fairly sure.
Ah, the good old "It's a chicken! An ~evil~ chicken! KILL IT!" spiel finds another victim.
Maybe it was Terry Goodkind's Chicken of Ultimate Evil.
Or maybe... (//%22http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52706%22)
Attacking a Familiar does not generally require following the normal PVP rules. The only exception to this is when someone is being followed by an animal type familiar inside village, near NPCs. Then it is considered an attack upon that persons property. Might be wise to send /c pvp otherwise too when the owner of the familiar is nearby in case it turns into a further battle.
When familiars are possessed and away from their masters, they are all fair game - anywhere and everywhere. Naturally it is expected that you play your character when dealing with them and not simply kill them for causing the harm of xp loss to the owner, however you should neither feel bad for swinging at them if they come too close to you.
Normally animals avoid humans and if some oddball rat/bat/snake/raven creeps about you, probably most feel uneasy even if not outright threathened by their presence. It is the responsibility of the owner to set others hostile when he goes spying with his familiar as others can't set them hostile so easily, for not knowing whose familiar it is. But setting others hostile is not required for familiars (unless you are specifically seeking to initiate PvP with it, in which case you -DO- require a DM present in populated areas to initiate attack) -- all it basically causes is that the familiar gains a slight advantage in the coming "fight" because of AoO and summons not reacting properly but unless you are Isidore Olmos' brother, I expect you to win a duel against a familiar.
Using the familiar is always a risk and it is intended so. If you have an airborne familiar, they are incapable of "flying out or melee range". It is perfectly fair for people to slash at them if they come too close and even chase them. Most wizards use their familiars for spying and in order to "spy" your familiar must be in the same vicinity as a normal PC.
QuoteAlso keep in mind that game mechanics can be a limitation, if a familiar is right next to someone, it might in fact be perched upon their shoulder or it could be flying out of melee ranged if it is airborne and other such things. Of course the PC controlling it can and should emote such limitations as well, but again this relies on someone not charging the thing to death immediately on sight.
To clarify on this, 99% of EfU follows the rule of What You See Is What You Get. If a familiar is in melee range of you, it's in melee range of you regardless of emotes.
Good to have those clarifications then! Such is the benefit of raising the topic still, that we are all familiar with what is in line with rules and what is not.
I would like to remember the wizards and sorceres possessing familiars that they cannot and they should not unpossess them in order to avoid xp loss. Last night the ooze was being chased by a group with crossbows near Mistlocke gates and when the player thought the ooze was out of sight he just unpossessed it when near death.
I was invisible near it and noticed the occurance. You must remember that just because you don't see anyone, there isn't anyone.
Perfectly okey to unpossess familiars and then unsummon them when you are running away from a scene of spying. Just don't abuse this system: for instance unsummoning your familiar after it got into trouble, immediately resting inside the safe inn room where you were hiding and sending it again to the scene.
It is always probably a lot more fun and ballsier play of you to first run away with your familiar for some time if someone is chasing you and then unsummon it after a slight getaway, like this ooze familiar dude seemed to have done. Thumbs up. But it would be a bit silly to set somekind of distance limit on how far you have to run but you are not required to make it all the way back to its master.
if you unposses your familiar, it's like to teleport it to safety... they should not have this power... should they??
It is called "Summon Familiar". They are summoned from some odd familiar world into this world, similar to summons except more permanent in nature and can be kept as long as needed in this world. (No, I am not going to explain this familiar world to you and how it actually works. I am sure some eccentric wizard might write a pondering essay on familiar nature to the Libraries and Tomes forum section to amuse us all).
Yes, in DnDs some rules I guess they are all the time present but that is not the case in here as you most have likely realized by now. They are summoned to the aid when needed. Yes, you can still have your familiar RPed as some wild animal captured to which you performed the familiar ritual but as you did so, it gained supernatural abilities, one of them being the access to this rainbow-like familiar world where sun always shines.
As a clarification, the feat "Animal Companion" does indeed use the summon effect but in efu they have been played as actual animals (although usually unique and of course loyal to their master) from this world. They are not summons and cannot be called from any area. For instance, if you enter another plane, unless the Companion was with you when you entered the plane, you cannot summon it there. A familiar though can be summoned there. Also most animal companions live on Ymphs main island somewhere so you should neither call them on other islands but its perfectly fine to whistle them for some Ymphian forest quest to aid you or crush some undead blocking the path in the jungle.
Animal companions much like familiars should not be unsummoned in the middle of a battle though - that being if it is attacked or surrounded by enemies. Deal with the enemies that are harassing it first, then send it off if you want to.
Sorry, Imma bit confused now... Are we saying that players should go OOC to be polite to wizard that is more stupid than the slime they brought into the middle of a populated town? But that the said wizard that has brought a slime into the square is perfectly acceptable and won't be punished by DM's ~and~ DM's need to be sought out to kill said slime?
Sorry, that's unacceptable to me. It's the player of the wizard that needs to courteous OOCly and not do something so blatantly stupid IG. Simple logic; You dont want your ooze killed, don't flaunt it in the middle of a town endangering the populous with a creature that is a KoS type creature to most.
Don't we even have a quest to kill the slimy little bugger just inside the market??? "Hey! an ooze! kill it!" should be commonly accepted and if the player doesn't want it to be killed or be arrested for endangerment then don't let it be seen.
I'm sorry but this is back assward. Players shouldn't have to go out of charter and not kill a slime. It's the player controlling the slime that needs to. And if that player insists on bringing a KoS slime into town they shouldn't be allowed to do so by the DM's, and should have to get a DM's permission first and have a DM present if/when they do such a thing.
For the record: I once got 200xp for walking up to a slime (in the town square) and killing it with Barkor Hammerhand. I didn't call a DM to do it and wasn't expecting xp. It's just that to 99% of the dwarf population slime and ooze are KoS, (end of story).
But hey, what do I know. Guess I'll just start ignoring slime ond ooze now.
Cerberus:
Quote from: Aethereal;319597Right, evil familiar types and the more exotic variants DO require a DM present in NPC populated areas, it is stipulated in the rules I'm fairly sure.
Quote from: Cerberus;319632I'm sorry but this is back assward. Players shouldn't have to go out of charter and not kill a slime. It's the player controlling the slime that needs to. And if that player insists on bringing a KoS slime into town they shouldn't be allowed to do so by the DM's, and should have to get a DM's permission first and have a DM present if/when they do such a thing.
We acknowledge this with the point above. Exotic familiars can't even be brought into NPC populated zones without DM presence.
QuoteWhen familiars are possessed and away from their masters, they are all fair game - anywhere and everywhere. Naturally it is expected that you play your character when dealing with them and not simply kill them for causing the harm of xp loss to the owner, however you should neither feel bad for swinging at them if they come too close to you.
No, if you see an ooze in the village, or wandering the wilds you are with in your rights to kill it. If you see an Imp or Mephit you are with in your rights to kill it, even if it's named and blue. MOST 'people' on Ymph will see them as dangerous and evil creatures. I would guess same with the large cats and bears. These are all creatures that commonly attack and try to eat us as we walk the wilds, why would you suddenly NOT try to kill it, unless you know and trust the person that the creature is bound to.
Quote from: Aethereal;319592Please keep this in mind when you interact with those fuzzy/feathered/furry/[SIZE="3"]slimy[/SIZE] little critters.
Thank you.
Alignment of the summons shouldn't matter. It's the player of the familiar/animal companion that needs to be OOCly courteous and should have to get a DM to bring just about any creature into town. I once seen a chicken being chased around by a halforc PC wanting to eat it. You don't want your chicken eaten, don't bring it into town. If you do, it's the player of the summons that should have to get a DM before doing so or don't get upset when your chicken gets eaten.
Good to know a familiar can be dismissed if they get into a bad situation!
That being said, I've definitely been annoyed in the past when otherwise mundane and innocuous animals, behaving in an ordinary fashion, have been attacked specifically because the player knew they were a familiar.
Now while a possessed, spying familiar, is surely fair game...
...is attacking someone's pet parrot when the master is present considered a pvp action?
Yes. Would need a DM for that if it's done in front of blue NPCs.
It darn well should be a PvP action. I mean, it is just a parrot, for heaven's sake.
Mind, if the parrot's master starts to perform the Monty Python parrot sketch (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE%22) both parrot and master ought to be fair game.
Alright, hold your horses. Read the posts a bit more carefully next time before you begin an extreme madness rant in your posts. There I typed quite clearly "animal familiars", that meaning about half of the familiars available and I am unsure in which categorical system slimes, snotballs and oozes belong to animals.
The animal familiars include, of which most are somewhat questionable:
(Bat)
(Rat)
Gull*
Parrot*
Chicken
Raven*
(snake)
Of these animals, snake is a reptilian as well. Bat and rat are also verminous creatures, thing sthat people usually want to squish when they see them. So common sense usually tingles that people don't want to see these in their village but don't usually bother getting a crossbow either if a rat peeks from a medieval taverns corner yet alone hunt it with your greataxe -probably quite bothersome choice of weaponry for rat hunting and likely to destroy the corner instead. None of these three should be on follow mode when your wizard walks about the village.
A parrot can be a pet, a gull is annoyance and so is raven but all are quite harmless (if though odd in human company). You shouldn't keep these out either for the most of time.
That leaves us with chicken, which is the only animal that is let loose on its own in villages and usually nobody minds a chicken running around - it is mostly a farm animal so on their own in the village square etc, they are likely kicked out of the way or put into a stew by a hungry beggar.
Best way to avoid this is mess is by not using familiars in the town. Do not keep them out in the village. Where do you need them? My DM eyes are not at least impressed when your "Joe the chicken" *glucks* behind you as you do your daily shoppings in the market hall. Feel free to summon these animal familiars briefly to address some situation that arises or use their spells inside the village. If you really want to have a familiar presence for your PC, you can play that your pet snake or rat peeks from your cloths every now and then and looks about. For that you do not need to keep it out as a summoned familiar. If someone then decides to attack it because of your emotes or otherwise you wish it to briefly come out for a task, then use the summon familiar feat to allow such event happen.
The village is the -only- area where attacking these familiars -with their masters- needs a DM (but understand that if you attack someones familiar near NPCs, he might react to it with hostility so as a courtesy I at least would try to get a DM anywhere where further PVP might escalate and a DM for such is required, beforehand I do anything hostile such as slaying the other dudes favourite rabbit), and that is because of the abundance of new players there and it arouses likely the anger of the master to react and you are basically executing his loyal pet following him. Some local law enforcement might not like destruction of property and you are then with a DM attendance allowing the player to react afterwards without limitations. Also because the NPCs themselves do not generally tend to care for the familiars either so it is not exactly a very hostile action to keep them out. They are just mostly harmless animals.
Oozes and slimes are bad. Don't keep them out in the village and if you see such, feel free to slay without a DM.
Imps, bad. Don't keep them out in the village and if you see such, feel free to slay without a DM
Skulls, mega bad. Never keep them out, this is extremely hostile action in the undead hating village. Feel free to slay them without a DM.
Any other familiar can also be slain wheverever and whenever when they are clearly not following or under control (meaning, it is taking orders for example from its master) of the master inside the village and everywhere else.
PS: Fortunately for you all, I seemingly don't have anything better to do tonight than write about proper code of conduct with familiars.
If someone has a bird or something, it's probably a good idea to not just murder it for no reason.
If it's an imp, slime, etc. it's a creepy otherworldly monster, and it's fair game.
In fact, if a paladin doesn't strike down an imp familiar on sight, that would be a violation of his code.
Quote from: Big Orc Man;319659In fact, if a paladin doesn't strike down an imp familiar on sight, that would be a violation of his code.
I dunno. Even if he would prefer to attack the master? :(
This should be fairly common sense to us by now folks. If the Familiar is a creature that people would attack on sight outside the Village, don't be shocked if they attack it IN the Village.
I don't know many that run around attacking every parrot they see, or Gull or even rat, so I would say have a REAL good reason to attack it, or just chase it off.
Sometimes common sense needs to come into play even in a "Fantasy" game.
Quote from: sylvyrdragon;319667I don't know many that run around attacking every parrot they see, or Gull or even rat, so I would say have a REAL good reason to attack it, or just chase it off.
What I normally do is to say 'shoo' at it and make threatening gestures, then repeat it if the critter doesn't take the hint and
then I start emoting getting ready to attack. To be honest, I'd be creeped out if an animal seemed to stalk me and didn't leave when I tried to scare it off.
Important exception: my characters will usually leave passing animal familiars alone, but if they have a noticeable spell effect on them, it becomes a different ballgame. Ekaterin always had See Invisible running. She had no problem with ordinary birds but when an
invisible raven showed and tried to get into town, she got paranoid...
~tOH.
If someone has a poisonous snake or a giant spider following after them in a populated rural area expect it to be cut down.
I was always under the assumption and ruling by Howland that Animal Companions and Familiars are perminant living things that are friends and important to the caster and are 'summoned' by limitation of NWN. Unsummoning them to avoid death and XP loss is wrong and breaking server rules.
Same, unsummoning them to avoid pvp death has always been a rule breaker.
Familiars are magical beasts. Often enough bound from another plane to the service but not always. They become supernatural and magical (if they were not already) with the link they form with the wizards.
Animal companions are "normal" animals, they belong to the natural world. They come from this plane. Yes, they are enhanced and possess an empathic link with their friend/master but that is all.
We are bound to the WYSIWYG. Even if we wanted to have them permanently in the possession of the wizard, ie on this plane, it would be a more complicated issue than them being unsummonable. That means, where does the imp familiar stay when it is unsummoned, or the skull one? Wouldn't their often chaotic presence reveal them as they move inside the masters belongings? What if the master is searched, is he required to emote that an imp giggles in his backpack? And so on... No, I do not think we wish to go into this swamp at all.
Some decide that their familiars are more permanent, they peek from their trousers every now and then. It is fine, do as you like but you can just as well have your familiar be a bound imp from another plane. A player once had his skull familiar being the skull on his waist. Sounds like a fine, flavourful idea but not enforced, you may just as well summon it when need be.
There is also a mechanical and functional difference for familiars and animal companions. Familiars are mostly used for giving couple buffs or spying. If you use familiar for battle, don't unsummon it to avoid imminent death if something is attacking it. It will be clearer this way. You can then unsummon once nothing is attacking it. Neither would it be fair for the spying wizard to be responsible for possessing his familiar all the way back to him in order to save it, while he himself remaining unable to do anything as he must possess the familiar so you can unsummon it if it is caught and you are not initiating a battle with it (when in fact it is perfectly capable of flying/running on its own back to the master or safety). Its of course ballsy to do such or run a while with your familiar if caught, thats all up to you.
Animal companions are used for battle, most of the times. They are called from the wilderness. They are strong and using them in battle is a strong perk to possess. You must also take care of your animal companion who is also your dear friend (usually) and such power unfortunately for you does not come without a drawback. The drawback being a permanent creature on Ymph - you cannot simply unsummon it as it is not magical. It must run away from the battle. When it has disengaged from the battle, the controller then can "unsummon" it, meaning that you send it away and back to the wilderness to lick its wounds and rest.
With a quick search word "Familiar" on DM questions and answers forum, I found http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums (//%22http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/search.php?searchid=437262%22)
/search.php?searchid=437262 (//%22http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/search.php?searchid=437262%22)
Maybe worth looking through if you are still bothered by familiar issues. Seems like some of the concerns were already addressed here. Using a witty search word for DM questions and answers can reveal a lot about what the DMs have said about different stuff in the past - very useful tool for anyone concerned about rules and our additional information given about the gameworld.
In general, try not to worry too much about the 'specific' rulings of little things. I am sure a DM notes to you if you did something wrong and it is not the end of the world if you acted against server rulings or expectations. You learn by playing and applying common sense to the basic rules and if you are not purposefully seeking to break the rules, you will be sure to do just fine on this server.
EDIT: Check the bolded version. I am sure someone is going to abuse the fact that familiar could be unsummoned when they are battling. Don't do this shit, especially when you are initiating a PVP with your familiar... In addition to this, attacking with possessed familiars and others follow the same rules of PvP as always.
I vote we just have derf summon a plague of rat familiars on his next PC and waive all PvP rules.
The server would run red with blood, and it wouldn't be rodent blood.
This has become a little convoluted, though a welcome discussion to help ensure everyone is on the same page. My point was actually quite simple:
It is not about who should be OOC courteous and who should not (familiar summoner/controller versus familiar hater/killer is just absurd!) - we should all be OOC courteous. Is it so difficult to give an emote before you attempt to kill something that you know would effect the other player with negative consequence and at least make sure both PLAYERS are aware of what might occur in the interaction? This is just as important as the familiar controller being aware of the risks/consequences associated with having one active, setting hostile if hostile intent and the other relevant points mentioned in this discussion.
Things can go awry, we can't always react immediately when out of nowhere someone just runs up and scythes a raven familiar to death.
E.g.
[INDENT][Takes out crossbow, loading a bolt and aiming at the raven - *click*][/INDENT]
Something like that, maybe. And that is an action perfectly viable in an NPC populated area for trying to slaughter a chicken familiar if DM is not present (though should be a first step even if DM is watching, because I think it's just good player etiquette and most conducive to everyone's fun).
For the record, I once killed a lone slime familiar in town with dm supervision and its a good thing I had it, because all the nearby NPC's became hostile to me.
You may want to have a DM, lest the Aberdenn Armsmen crack your head open like a raw egg for hitting that cute slime monster.
The ooze cult has their slimy tentacles in everything, apparently.