Should pc´s with these freaky monster mutations be allowed to walk arround town? Discuss!
Issue to be discussed ingame IMO.
Keep it in game...
But yes, these people should contact a DM before entering town.
I don't know, you've got a PC like Apocryphan who's eyes glow and is well respected. Wings or a tail might be different, it's true, but this is for a DM to rule on whether or not they need to be present...not really for the players to discuss.
It's probably case by case, I'd think.
I disagree Teeth. This is very much an OOC discussion. But to make it clear.
Is a pc´s with one of these freakish mutations allowed to be in town WITHOUT a dm.
Personaly I see it the same way as I would see a monster pc in town, But maybe its only me. That is why I ask the users of EFU this question.
If I had a character with some of these, I would make sure a DM was present for at the very least my first visit and probably second and third, too. If I was 'accepted' during these, it would probably be OK to go on after that, at least until such time I managed to make my character so unpopular that it turned questionable again.
~tOH.
You should most definitely have a DM if you're going to be entering the village with monster bits on you.
If you have fairy wings, dragon tails, bat wings, or other 'freakish' and 'monsterous' extras on your character you SHOULD have a DM every single time you enter the city because it's not fair at all to hinder other characters reactions and possible PvP/Death by knowing no DM is on and nothing can harm you.
As someone who recently played a glowy eyes freak, I got them from a DM, non app and rather unexpectantly to boot!
No DM ever told me I had to get permission to come to town, it was left to PCs to handle which was fine imo.
Tails and wings are different.
Since a DM is ALWAYS involved in giving these, you can trust they will the player any neccesary OOC info.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to leave dealing out permissions or inhibitions like these to the DMs who are responsible for giving the PCs in question these attributes rather than addressing it this way.
Its hardley dealing out permissions. Its a discussion by the users of efu. All are invited to join in :)
But lately i have seen an increase in these "freak" pc´s (wich is fine, it adds flavour to be cursed like this) So i thought it could be a worthy discussion.
These things were recently gained in a DM event, and I'm pretty certain (as Weaverific says above) that the players were informed of any requirements. A little trust of your fellow player is likely in order here.
Sure, they should be greeted with fear and revulsion by quite a few characters. However, is there really a need to beat them down the very instant you spot those characters in the village? If no DM is around then react appropriate to that restriction. If a DM can supervise then PvP as you like.
The other problem no one has addressed yet is, do we really want the DMs to be tailing these characters around when they can be running plots for people? Is that the best use of their time spent, or most fun for them?
Sure, react as you will, but it's not so terribly difficult to tailor your roleplay with regards to PvP to keep DM availability in mind.
Havoros has glowy eyes and was a Musterman on day two. That all depends on how things are handled IG. Where are the Red Necks? Isn't Aberdenn in the power? Are their bannersmen becoming liberals? All these sort of things...
Half man half insect? A-okay. Don't you dare walk into town if you're a well respected long time citizen who magically ends up with a pair of wings on them though.
I think many PCs would beat down and KILL a freak with fairy wings or bat wings or tails, truth be told. DMs should be very clear when giving these out without apps, IMO.
No one reads descriptions and he WAS flesh colored...
I will admit I read his description more than once and generally read them and I had no idea till he was dead.
If something is abnormal about your pc which makes them stand out, do us all a favor and spell it out clearly in the first line of your description.
Wings and tails are definitely not village stuff.
I assume you all are talking about Jacqueline, and how she recently sprouted wings, among other things. I'm not trying to artificially prolong my character by having her in the village, it's just RP - my character can be rather pig-headed at times and she wouldn't just abandon what she's doing or done in Mistlocke.
If given a ruling about whether or not it's safe or not safe for one of my characters to enter the village, I will abide by it. Another player has had a tail and had been allowed to wander freely until fairly recently, even join the Muster (even if she did meet hostility on more than a few occasions), and a great many people have been touched by the fey in recent days and have also more or less walked freely within the village. So I knew not what my own status was, and assumed it was fine, since I hadn't been given any OOC guidelines until now.
With Talir's words, of course, I'll keep well enough away, though it was amusing to see how polarized most of the adventurers were to her.
I think overall this is indeed best handled in-game, keeping in mind Talir's caveat. You can have a DM oversight and given the IC law is ambiguous on this, it might just be your previously unwinged well recognised PC might gain some sort of understanding with the village or more likely, they will turn upon you with a lynch mob; either way the question will be answered.
The PC with a tail you raise managed to make certain concessions with the organisations in charge as well - of course it was still very in character for others to threaten her, though the in-game climate is nowhere near the same as it was back then.
You can't handle the lack of a DM, IG. When you would beat them down or kill them or enslave them or whatever, I am pretty sure! The point I think is that players with these 'perks' should not walk around town like nothing is different without first telling a DM.
When characters openly accept such aberrant freaks, it detracts from the grit of the setting.
This is not a nice and happy place.
This is a doomed isle full of hideous monsters.
Anything with wings and a tail and glowing eyes probably fits into the "monster" category.
The only thing I'm going to add to this is that we've had several PCs of late that would fit into at the very least a "semi-monstrous" category, if not full out "freak" and yet they've been accepted within the village. I'm a wee confused about why now we're picking out specific attributes that would be AOS when more horrific attributes are not.
Quote from: Big Orc Man;321279When characters openly accept such aberrant freaks, it detracts from the grit of the setting.
When it becomes mandatory to play your character according to a specific formula, it detracts from the freedom and creativity of the players.
~tOH.
At times when my characters, or other characters I've seen have reacted on monstrous PCs there have been many quick to shut them up and/or beat them.
I believe any char with a monstrous deformity should have DM supervision when in town. This is clearly a difficult issue with villagers. Forget the player populace. If someone with tail/wings/claws walked into to town the villagers would freak. Or should.
Quote from: The Old Hack;321281When it becomes mandatory to play your character according to a specific formula, it detracts from the freedom and creativity of the players.
~tOH.
Certain freedoms are lost for the sake of setting consistency.
You can't play a bard with an electric guitar and a corvette.
I'm not saying that
no character should be understanding of the hideously deformed, but when they are en masse welcomed in, even though if they were red NPCs they'd be attacked on sight, it
does cheapen the narrative.
Change doesn't have to be a bad thing. Wings, tails, gender shifts, lost limbs, etc. are just the most radical examples. Even a simple scar can be seen as a way to gauge your character's development, how they've changed or will change in their behavior over time. All of a sudden, the way you've been doing things so far changes. It seems unrealistic that these changes would be shrugged off or ignored, and wasted potential if the afflicted character does nothing more than seek to undo the change as fast as possible, return the status quo.
Back when Durgrim of the dwarves was rolling around, he got his beard shaved off by his enemies. In response, he left the Golden Alliancr in grief and just rampaged through the mountains, killing every orc, ogre and giant he came across. Eventually he did happen upon some hair-growth formula, but I'm willing to bet that the journey was a lot more fun for everyone involved.
The entire Mistlocke setting has grown more fairy tale-ish, albeit a very twisted and bloody fairy tale, which has increased PC tolerance to all the various oddities because there's so many of them now.
Half-bug men, ooze-spitters, invisible exhibit curators, shrub-brained elves, glowing-eyed priests of genocide-committing deities, freakishly chaotic circus ringmasters (the list goes on) are all frequently in Mistlocke without any real fear of being lynched. So putting this condition on wings and tails alone feels sort of arbitrary.
I'm not trying to state that all the kinds of PCs I've listed above should be tossed out, because that would only discourage those fun and creative characters who add a lot to the setting. However, maybe just singling out a couple characteristics as needing DM presence should be re-examined, since from the angle of what the characters see ingame on a daily basis it makes little sense.
The freaks are everywhere, wings and tails are just a different flavor of freak.
I think character altering experiences are a positive thing. Id expect a seasoned adventurer to come across a few extra appendages in his career. And if they're unwanted? Trying to reverse the transformation makes for a fine story, too. However, if the change makes the character completely unplayable I think its just wasted potential if you can't so anything but wander the forest without a DM presence, or turned into a non-speaking animal unable to do ANYTHING - especially if there's resistance to restoring the PC.
Yes, yes, its a scary and grim world.
A fairy came into town recently with about 15 PCs present. It demanded everyone offer it tribute, and they did, and it even cast Confusion on them and made them attack eachother. Only one person attacked the fairy, and the PCs present defended the creature, and the attack was not made because it was some freak.
This example shows how a significant portion of PCs respond to winged magical creatures. Then again this was a DM possessed fey, not a PC fey, so naturally people will treat it differently because of that fact alone. Sad but true.
Quote from: Big Orc Man;321306I'm not saying that no character should be understanding of the hideously deformed, but when they are en masse welcomed in, even though if they were red NPCs they'd be attacked on sight, it does cheapen the narrative.
Ah.
That is different and I completely agree. As long as you have the freedom to be an exception to the (social) norm, whether more or less tolerant, more or less reclusive, etcetera, I am fine with it. It should also in passing be noted that there may be a price to being different. Someone who is being overly friendly to and tolerant of 'freaks' may soon find themself shunned as well...
Quote from: Guttersnipe;321361Half-bug men, ooze-spitters, invisible exhibit curators, shrub-brained elves, glowing-eyed priests of genocide-committing deities, freakishly chaotic circus ringmasters (the list goes on) are all frequently in Mistlocke without any real fear of being lynched. So putting this condition on wings and tails alone feels sort of arbitrary.
The freaks are everywhere, wings and tails are just a different flavor of freak.
Yes and no. It is not merely a question of flavour but also of degree. Certain kinds of freakishness is hard to notice or get a crowd riled up about ("Look! It's an invisible man!" "Where?") or, while unsettling, is not quite as unsettling as wings, tails or horns. Horns in particular get associated with the demonic or infernal, for example.
Quote from: Numos;321364I think character altering experiences are a positive thing. Id expect a seasoned adventurer to come across a few extra appendages in his career. And if they're unwanted? Trying to reverse the transformation makes for a fine story, too. However, if the change makes the character completely unplayable I think its just wasted potential if you can't so anything but wander the forest without a DM presence, or turned into a non-speaking animal unable to do ANYTHING - especially if there's resistance to restoring the PC.
Yes, yes, its a scary and grim world.
I agree very much with this. If an established character is subjected to this kind of change and is instantly barred from all 'civilised' places, it becomes far harder for them to work on a cure. There ought to be at least a little hope for them in this regard. Admittedly it is all a matter of perspective, some may feel that the player could do it anyway "if they just sucked it up and forged on" but even so there should be an opening for cutting them just a bit of slack.
~tOH.
Quote from: xXCrystal_Rose;321365A fairy came into town recently with about 15 PCs present. It demanded everyone offer it tribute, and they did, and it even cast Confusion on them and made them attack eachother. Only one person attacked the fairy, and the PCs present defended the creature, and the attack was not made because it was some freak.
This example shows how a significant portion of PCs respond to winged magical creatures. Then again this was a DM possessed fey, not a PC fey, so naturally people will treat it differently because of that fact alone. Sad but true.
This happened due to an unnatural fear of npcs that every player I have seen on EFU has.
Quote from: xXCrystal_Rose;321365A fairy came into town recently with about 15 PCs present. It demanded everyone offer it tribute, and they did, and it even cast Confusion on them and made them attack eachother. Only one person attacked the fairy, and the PCs present defended the creature, and the attack was not made because it was some freak.
This example shows how a significant portion of PCs respond to winged magical creatures. Then again this was a DM possessed fey, not a PC fey, so naturally people will treat it differently because of that fact alone. Sad but true.
Actually this happened because the fairy in question claimed to have an army at her back and people decided it was better for Mistlocke (and cheaper) to pay the tribute. Also, the Confusion was cast by a PC causing trouble, not the NPC.
My mistake on the confusion! It is true though, people do fear NPC's, and for good reason. A lot of the time one can be normal people, then when possessed the same npc becomes godlike with saves in the 30's and such. That's a whole different tangent though and off topic.
Quote from: Adam;321374This happened due to an unnatural fear of npcs that every player I have seen on EFU has.
It's a widely known fact that even Mistlocke Commoners are all lifting weights and practicing with swords when we're out adventuring, just waiting for the day to throw us out.
You can toggle glowing eyes on and off. Maybe it's best not to walk around burning holes into everyone. It should trigger some serious reactions, one way or another, however.
DMs have already ruled when and when you do not need a DM present. Act as is natural for your character regardless even if the public accepts a "Freak." Its a case by case basis, so if you have a PC with abberants grafts or anything that would warrent response from NPCs check with a DM if its okay.
Nothing more to discuss really?
Quote from: xXCrystal_Rose;321365A fairy came into town recently with about 15 PCs present. It demanded everyone offer it tribute, and they did, and it even cast Confusion on them and made them attack eachother. Only one person attacked the fairy, and the PCs present defended the creature, and the attack was not made because it was some freak.
This example shows how a significant portion of PCs respond to winged magical creatures. Then again this was a DM possessed fey, not a PC fey, so naturally people will treat it differently because of that fact alone. Sad but true.
The PCs were lead to believe it was at the head of a large hunt. And people defended it because they didn't want the Prince to get mad and enslave the village. It also seems more probable that a town of peasants would supplicate themselves to magical creatures rather than hack them to bits.
Quote from: Ebok;321383You can toggle glowing eyes on and off. Maybe it's best not to walk around burning holes into everyone. It should trigger some serious reactions, one way or another, however.
While this is true, it would be greatly preferred if the ones who have their glowing eyes either keep them constantly active or change them for specific reasons
For instance,
a fire genasi without glow when calm but when angered, bursting them into flames
an aasimar whose eyes glow during times of courage, love or great need
reptilian eyes only glowing green in the dark
and so on, depending what you play. Of course I am sure someone could have somekind of concept built around blending in but remember that those are your -eyes-, not simply some contact lenses you can swap whenever you feel like it.
Otherwise utilize your unnatural perks, skills, spells and "deformations" in a way that is fitting for them. It is always sad to see eccentricity played as everyday appearance in common populace/company.
Quote from: Numos;321387The PCs were lead to believe it was at the head of a large hunt. And people defended it because they didn't want the Prince to get mad and enslave the village. It also seems more probable that a town of peasants would supplicate themselves to magical creatures rather than hack them to bits.
This. And, for the record, a Stargazer (looking at you, VP, you scamp) cast the confusion on us.
QuoteHalf-bug men, ooze-spitters, invisible exhibit curators, shrub-brained elves, glowing-eyed priests of genocide-committing deities, freakishly chaotic circus ringmasters (the list goes on) are all frequently in Mistlocke without any real fear of being lynched. So putting this condition on wings and tails alone feels sort of arbitrary.
... maggot covered hags...
that's why I am opening the Syndicate of the Freaks, aka SYFREAK. we gather together and finish with the dumb normal guys that trash the town
I am generally more saddened than upset so many players just act like monstrous freaks are just another adventurer. It is also disappointing so many players seem to think of monstrous traits as impairment to play, and that if you can't walk in Mistlocke you are somehow doomed to obscurity and boredom.
Embrace your freakishness, and if you want to be normal and boring again then work towards it. Or go play WoW where there is no chance of anything interesting ever happening to your character.
I had a character suddenly get Wings in Efu:A. She was well known by her group when she got them. So to start things weren't to bad, it wasn't until she went to her faction HQ that things got interesting.
I was chased out by the NPC's. Kicked out of my faction, had a bounty on my head and none of her "friends" would talk to her. This had to be one of the best times I've had with a character.
It forced me to find other ways to play her, to make new allies and friends, and find other places she felt "safe" in.
The other players were excellent about it. They didn't just attack, or PvP her, they chased her off, yelled at her, called her names, but made it all fun.
I did however know that a DM was needed to go into an NPC filled zone, at least for the first couple times. After that she found a place that didn't care of her wings.
My advise is, don't give up. Give the DM's and players a chance to honestly react to the changes.. yeah they might chase you out, but then a new chapter can begin.
While I have nothing against wings or glowing eyes on principle, my tastes are aesthetically against them being widespread and accepted. I play on EfU for a gritty, low-level feel. Vanity perks like visual changes tend to cheapen that experience in my eyes.
They are rare and justly so. As you can see, those involved are usually hunted by NPCs or other PCs.
Generally speaking, these are often given out in regards to big plots or are achieved through months of hard work, a certain prestige can come with these Aesthetic changes.
Such as, someone achieving demonic status, or earning the RDD class after months of rituals. If you see someone with these its extremely likely epic shit went down to get them.
Quote from: RuinedDesires;326558Generally speaking, these are often given out in regards to big plots or are achieved through months of hard work, a certain prestige can come with these Aesthetic changes.
Such as, someone achieving demonic status, or earning the RDD class after months of rituals. If you see someone with these its extremely likely epic shit went down to get them.
It's not epic if it happens to every one in ten character on the server. Judging by this thread, that may be a trend. It's not really what I have seen in-game, however. Of course, I personally think it shouldn't happen at all, but that's just me. The precedent is hard to curve back once the cat is out of the basket and everyone starts cooking up wild ideas that can usually be summed up along the lines of "me too". Bleh. There are other servers for that.
Edit: To reiterate, I'm actually okay with the current level of things. I just don't think we need more of it.
I admit I haven't been around for the recent events, but I don't think it was really 'common'. I gather that there was an event that netted some people 'oddities'. (wings, hands, eyes etc.)
But, the main gist of this thread was how the players (both the one with the Oddity and others) should / would react to them. From what I can gather, some players didn't really seem to care that their friend of X amount of time suddenly had wings, or a tail etc. But, the NPC's did react, so it brought about this thread.
Or maybe only SOME people reacted and it was taken as some Power hungry "kill it and take it's loot". This I can't say one way or the other.
It's the DMs fault for attempting to go against mass media and the basic truths of the universe.
We all know the only thing that can give you wings is Red Bull. To do otherwise is heretical. If Red Bull has not given your character wings IG, then you are wrong for playing said character.
"Tail" is something only good looking characters should have. Tieflings have "tail" because although dark, they are emo-hot. This is a universal truth.
As for glowing eyes, unless your character's name is Cyclops (or Phoenix) and an X-man, you are wrong and do not deserve them.
Quote from: The Beggar;326603As for glowing eyes, unless your character's name is Cyclops (or Phoenix) and an X-man, you are wrong and do not deserve them.
You've gone soft Beggar. Homo Superior is not the next stage of evolution, but a cancer upon our fair race that should be excised. Let us join together to rid ourselves of the genejoke mutie scum.
But we can all agree that Tiefling tail is superhawt and Red Bull gives us wings. We'll discuss this further after our next rally.
In game attitude always reflects the social stigmas that comes with these sort of physical anomalies. I'm not sure what you're complaining about unless you're just completely ignorant of the implications most of these have. They're aesthetically cool, but usually end up as an excuse for others to "FD" you with lesser precedence should you not had the wings or tail or glowing eyes.
If people generally play the kind of xenophobic characters who react with prudent hostility to these aberrations, that would be awesome. Demonic flesh transfusions and fey antlers and what-have-you would be cool if they truly were double-edged swords. I'm not sure if the general sentiment is KoS, however.
I remember vaguely that Arnold "The Feyhand" Howardson remained on retainer for House Aberdenn for rather a long time after he went completely gonzo, despite the best efforts of some characters to have him removed and cured. I'm sure there were some very valid in-character reasons for his friends to protect him like that, but too much of this pussyfooting around such obvious handicaps would cheapen the narrative significantly, in my opinion. On the other hand, if he was completely ostracized immediately, that wouldn't have been much of a cool story either.
Yet upon reflection, the whole situation seemed almost ridiculous when compared to the social stigma that for example half-orcs face. Of course, my own character was more intrigued and slightly scared by the Fey Hand, to be honest, whereas the anti-half orc sentiment is familiar and long-ingrained. It stands to reason that the sheer strangeness and novelty of certain physical 'defects' could inhibit the blatant social stigmata that would, and perhaps should, be associated with them. This could be due to factors of awe, fear or plain disbelief. I don't think I would ever play a character who would dare to physically (or even verbally) abuse an Acolyte of the Flesh or a level 20 monk registering as an outsider.
TL;DR Play more xenophobic brutes, because Aspirinsmurf probably won't. ;)
EFU is kind of a freaky setting, and occasionally - through complex ritual or zany fey influence or the influence of other semi-sinister powers (ooze, aberrations, undead...) PCs will be changed. PCs should react appropriately, but I don't think every player needs to play a frightened villager-type either. I think we have a decent balance and I think most players handle these things fine, I suppose I don't really see the point of this thread.