Give these items a major draw back when used, like XP deducted or a constitution penalty. They shouldn't be used willy nilly and without cause. At this rate, our poor H'balan faction may end up deader than dead!
Or at least a submit/resist like searches and needles.
Also, please make them so they cannot be used without being hostile to the target.
+1 to Rose and Preston.
It's a hostile action. Refuse, and you goan need a DM, boy.
Also, limited use per day.
Quote from: Blue41;322393It's a hostile action. Refuse, and you goan need a DM, boy.
Also, limited use per day.
Okay, now I am confused. That means it was the Order that started the fight when they used their censer on Yvette Maeglin over her objections? And do you need a DM present for using it on someone refusing it if there are NPCs present? Or do you need a DM present for use on someone refusing it, period? *scratches head*
Imagine if some weird tobacco cultist came and blew a big fat puff of cigar smoke in your face. You'd want to punch him, right? That's what this is like.
Also, it's difficult enough to play a H'balan as it is. It's really not very sporting to identify all your PvP targets before they have a chance to reach level 5.
It's a recent ruling. I agree, outing somebody as the enemy of 80% of the server with one click isn't cool, and Order PC's have been informed what's up. No one should really be misting peeps with zero warning beforehand.
ToH, pvp rules apply. Can't use it on a PC who refuses it in an NPC-populated area without a DM around. If they submit, it's cool. Out in the wilds, feel free to treat it as a hostile action if it's done without consent. I can't speak on the Yvette thing, as I wasn't there.
To address your concern though Witchrcraft, the H'balan PCs know what is up from the start. EFU is hard and H'balan EFU is EFU Hardmodex150.
That being said I personally have enjoyed hearing about the censors, it's added some fear to some otherwise fearless endeavors in service to H'bala.
Changes or not it has been a cool implementation
Quote from: The Old Hack;322394Okay, now I am confused. That means it was the Order that started the fight when they used their censer on Yvette Maeglin over her objections? And do you need a DM present for using it on someone refusing it if there are NPCs present? Or do you need a DM present for use on someone refusing it, period? *scratches head*
Talir's recent post stating that using the censers on unwilling people is a new development for us. We had been operating differently previous to that.
Since forcing the censer on an unwilling is a hostile action, DM supervision is needed in NPC areas just as it is for general PvP violence.
We have been told that forcing the censer on unwilling people in non-NPC areas, like PvP, does not require DM supervision.
Edit: whoops! Blue beat me to it!
Honestly why is it needed? Don't mean to sound rude or anythin but it seems to remove all the tact from people being able to find out who the secret worshipper is. It's not as if every hbalan is a spy hiding in mistlocke.
Because as an incident last night showed, it leads to some hilarious conflict?
Plenty of room for IC repercussions whether they're used properly, improperly, accurately, or inaccurately.
Alternatively, you could say we have them for the same reason the search pack player tool exists!
Hilarious is not a synonym for good.
Alright, then I'd say what happened last night was both hilarious and good.
In all honesty you should avoid Order like the plague if your a H'balan cultist. Murderers don't chill with the police with blood soaked hands. And I think its fine, as a person who has used it.
Please don't mention the specifics of how these items work.
That being said, they should probably require a submit/resist prompt much like the old arrest wands or searches.
I think it's far to simple of a tool to uncover a potential spy or cover that a player might have worked very hard to create, ruined with a simple random click. You could literally just run around and click every PC you see... potentially that it.
Just what I think. I'd rather have the Order actually do work to uncover their enemies.
Even if you're not a cultist it's still a hostile action. My character would have certainly declined it, and shoved her spear in the persons throat, except that it was randomly done without a word or a chance to resist and there were npcs there, then the character promptly walked away after throwing mist in her face.
It is supposed to be ungodly hard to be a H'bala cultist, as you are the harbinger of a change that would kill absolutely everyone in mistlocke. So, if you can die because of a click.. don't chill near people who can lol "click kill" you.
The censors are basically like spamming Detect Evil, if being evil were a permadeath worthy offence, and if there was no way to block it.
Quote from: putrid_plum;322409You could literally just run around and click every PC you see... potentially that it.
Quote from: xXCrystal_Rose;322413The censors are basically like spamming Detect Evil, if being evil were a permadeath worthy offence.
Except as the recent DM discussions/rulings have indicated such isn't a proper use of the censers.
No one outside the Order has much faith in these censers (with an E, not an O) and it has been shown that most people come to the defense of those accused of Malevolence. Why are we complaining about this? It's just like the Detect Evil suggestions, and can be summed up into this:
No one else can see that the person is evil, so when some weird guy starts shouting at them for being evil, people are more likely to come to the aid of the guy accused than to the guy accusing.
"Why is he a H'balan cultist?" "I saw it in the Mists..." "Oh.. well, we'll keep an eye on him."
Also, some of your suggestions are already implimented.
Adam you really shouldnt be telling other people where to be chilling ;)
Personaly I like the idea that the order has means to detect evil. BUT the fact that it can be used so "freely" Bugs me a bit. Atlest have a "resist/submit" dialog option.
I suggest Adding 10% chance of false positive, and 10% chance of false negative to this item.
Not all cultists might be OMG RAWR DEATH TO ALL KILL ANYTHING THAT MOVES, some might have plans or be you know not an utter retard. If there is a sort of ruling thats great BUT I have a feeling it will still be used that way unless it's mechanically altered.
Quote from: putrid_plum;322418Not all cultists might be OMG RAWR DEATH TO ALL KILL ANYTHIGN THAT MOVES, some might have plans or be you know not an utter retard. If there is a sort of ruling thats great BUT I have a feeling it will still be used that way unless it's mechanically altered.
Right here (http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?p=322350#post322350).
I agree that a "Allow the Mist to waft over you" / "Step away from the Mist" prompt on the censered may be a good idea.
The censers are a wonderful RP tool. They just need to be used with consideration and wisdom.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;322400To address your concern though Witchrcraft, the H'balan PCs know what is up from the start. EFU is hard and H'balan EFU is EFU Hardmodex150.
"Knowing what's up" isn't quite applicable here. If Order PCs are allowed to spam these things on anyone they please, playing a H'balan cultist goes from exceedingly difficult to flat-out impossible. I had no idea about these things or what they were until one was used on my PC without my consent, no opportunity to refuse, no declaration of hostility, and the absolute bare minimum of roleplay beforehand. It was literally, "I want to use this thing on you," then it gets stuffed in my face before I even have a chance to react. Not cool.
I'll just say this right now, if it happens to one of my PCs again you should get a DM first because
there will be PvP. Forcing someone to unwillingly breathe some strange Mist-substance is prima facie evidence of an intent to poison them and they have every right to react accordingly. If your intentions are honorable then you should obtain consent first.
Quote from: putrid_plum;322409I think it's far to simple of a tool to uncover a potential spy or cover that a player might have worked very hard to create, ruined with a simple random click. You could literally just run around and click every PC you see... potentially that it.
Just what I think. I'd rather have the Order actually do work to uncover their enemies.
Agreed 100%.
Mainly one person in the past was going around using it at random with no warning beforehand. I try to give warning, at least one or two emotes. If you don't want someone using it on you, back up when it's clear they're going to!
All order players, we should likely stop discussing the actual mechanics of the censers. Many of the assumptions posted by folks(order and not) in this thread on how they work are wrong, but in our case, by giving details we may be spoilering IC secrets, even if some of my fellow ordermen posted mechanically false information without knowing that!
One Orderman was using it without any warning, but the rest Ordermen treat it as a quasi pvp,hostile act. How about a little faith folks?
We are discussing things without actually knowing what we are discussing.
As it's been said, using it can be considered an hostile action, and in a place with NPCs requires the presence of a DM.
You also assume that it tells someone is a cultist in big flashy letters. I haven't had the chance to find a cultist so far, but I believe this assumption is wrong.
If you are a cultist, you could contact me, so we may test how the censer actually works.
Yes, if you're a Cultist please line up at Castle Blackhearth as soon as it's convenient. We'll be happy to help!
This sort of testing is best left to DMs. <.<
If it actually becomes a problem, rather then people freaking out over the possibilities of this new scare tactic, I'm 100% certain the DMs will step in and do something about it. I honestly think they are a very very cool addition.
From what I have seen, I disagree that any part of it could be considered hostile, but then again... That's up to the people that designed them.
Quote from: Weaverific;322432One Orderman was using it without any warning, but the rest Ordermen treat it as a quasi pvp,hostile act. How about a little faith folks?
In the person who proceeded to mutilate my character for 'assault' without DMs present and after a PvP situation where it is now crystal clear that the Order was the attackers? Absolutely.
There is no need to speak of IC happenings here, nor point any fingers and this is leading into just that. Message received.
I am locking this down.