I think the DMs are doing a grand job with the dm quests and stuff that have popped up. Since my return Iv'e seen about three, and that makes me happy.
What saddens me is that I cannot very well take part in any of these awesome quests without dying almost immedieatly. That strange planar attack the other day was really cool, and I don't think realisticlly anyone would ignore it even if they were only level two. I can't very well have my character say: "Oh no, demonic entities are attacking, I'd better go kill that fat rat while the people with broadswords take care of them!"
In short it's nice to have a challenge, but it'd also be nice to have the level 2's through 4's able to contribute to the defenses of the ziggurat, (without having to use the super powerfull weapons.. like the greatsword) seeing as how realistically they wouldn't really do anything else. (Unless theyr'e cowards, in which case they'd hide in the kingsman inn.)
Hopefully I'm not pissing anyone off when I say this, because I'm really not trying to.
I am fairly sure at least one person said something along those lines during the 'planar attack', actually! Unless you're a garagosian, it's perfectly fine to retreat, or strategicly withdraw. Unless you're playing an extremly low wis or low int PC, you'd probably easily see you're outmatched, and know fighting is no use. You don't /have/ to fight everything in this game, you know.
I'd love to see DM quests for low level parties, yes.
Yeah it was a fun attack! And I tried to fight in it a couple of times, dying each time, which made it less fun until I gave up.
(Which sort of brings us back to the fighting a battle you know you cannot win thing.)
DM quests are fun, and sometimes you get loot! That should not be a reason to fight on even if it's clear your PC cannot/would not. Granted for some PCs that is absolutely IC to never give up, but for more, retreat usually is a more viable and IC option.
Declining the chance to get DM loot because it's IC, rather than shambling on just to get that sweet item is definately a good way to shine as a player, IMO.
This is a really backwards thread.
First off, do not have less DM quests of any sort, period.
If you do not want to get killed, level up your character (getting to level 6 takes 5 days of questing, honestly) or do not participate.
Do not die through a quest to get the phat lewts. While the DM will generally hand you the obligatory reward at the end, it pisses them off and they'll likely ignore and avoid including your character in the future. If you weren't planning to get noticed in the first place however, go for it.
And assuming you really don't care about the people involved, stealing things from dead characters in the middle of a fight is a good way to get some choice items and afford the potions and wands you'll want.
Semli, let's not advocate looting from packs in the middle of fighting in DM events! That shit is not cool.
agreeing with caddies here, not a good idea to loot from dead pc right in the middle of dm events or quests.
the only time it -might- be acceptable is if you got permission from the dm to stealth after the group and steal their shit when they go down. but thats only if you got permission, and the DM would probably give the group hints they are being followed in the interest of fairness.
and its -definately- not about levels, its about how you play. My first ever DM quest on this server i did at level 4. i died twice, and at the end ended up 3xp over what i started with. But i didnt care, i was with some great RP'ers and the quest was really fun. But if you really dont like the idea of dying, dont play low wis/int chars unless you've got a good counter balance. play IC, and do everything you can to stay alive. Ive said it a million times.
People. Dont. Use. Consumables. Enough.
-end rant-
Isn't there a way for DM's to lock corpse bags during such events? I have seen it done before, and think it should become standard policy.
More people might participate and enjoy themselves as a result.
heh. Someone looting during a DM event (risers porting in) lead to:
-Mob going after him.
-PC trying to FD the suspected thief.
-Said PC being beat down for it, walking back to the Ziggurat, trying to bribe my PC then running to the wilds while I tried to get a guard, then being subdued again by my Ranger who went after him.
-Being hauled to the Guardhouse for a Guard to deal with.
We all got some cool RP and action out of it, BUT, the trouble was the lack of Dms to attend to posessions/PVP.
I've been involved in server invasions at low levels/high lag. Harner actually got his sweet axe as a result, at I think L5, shooting and scouting through a DM quest after it. A really good trick is "if in doubt, Shoot Things or Heal People". An out-matched fighter still has a good BAB and can hurt stuff with a bow.
Quote from: Semli;107711This is a really backwards thread.
First off, do not have less DM quests of any sort, period.
If you do not want to get killed, level up your character (getting to level 6 takes 5 days of questing, honestly) or do not participate.
So according to you, players should focus on questing periodically so that they can get involved in DM events? That does not sound very good to me.
I think that thread has a good point.
It's not about having dm loot or dm bonus xp, it's about having DM presence that is not "OMG i'm the lowbye/newbye of the party, i'll never survive this". Having (more) random 2-5 less combat oriented dm quests would be neat.
I've seen nickless run some pretty sweet non combat focused low level quests before! Granted it was nickless, so not even a party of level 12's would have survived! :P
I think DM quests are a great way for the playerbase to get involved in events or plots that they may not normally have. While the larger more entire server events are fairly on the more hard to deadly side, I consider them unusual events and circumstances that balance the server or remind us that there are far greater deadly things on the Island of Ymph.
That being said, I too agree that there are circumstances in which it is perfectly IC to retreat, withdraw, flee, run, or simply turn down the chance to participate. I remember at least one instance where myself and a hand full of other PCs, all in the same PC faction, turned down a DM quest that did not make sense for us.
Granted, yes, there are circumstances where I would ignore it, but if an area in the close vicinity of the ziggurat is being attacked. (Which is quite often,) Not many people would ignore it unless they were RPing cowardly characters. I'm not expecting my level 2 fighter to live, I am however expecting him to last a bit longer.
Uh, yes.
Please don't loot packs during server events.
To have non-epic DM quests we would have to have non-epic DMs. Since we only have access to epic DMs, non-epic quests are not a possibility.
Please to be logging in, Mr. Beggar, to receive your propaganda-awarded +2 weapon.
I don't know. Sternhund ran me a sweet quest that was decidedly cool, but not epic, and specifically geared towards low level characters. It was of course open to everyone and not run for me, specifically, but nobody seemed to show up but me and one other dude.
Quote from: The Beggar;107808To have non-epic DM quests we would have to have non-epic DMs. Since we only have access to epic DMs, non-epic quests are not a possibility.
Not since you stepped down, anyway!
roll spot
I don't think anyone disagrees that it's nice for all kinds of DM attention, including some specifically geared towards lower levels, but after three years of all kinds of DM'ing I will DM the kind of stuff that I enjoy DM'ing, which does tend to be more on the "epic" side.
I didn't run the event that inspired this post, but I will say for my quests that if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you have a low level character that isn't well kitted out or very tough, this is an IC fact, not something that should be ignored -- it is entirely justifiable to IC'ly recognize you're not very tough, and that it may be wise to avoid situations of extreme danger.
I wish I could change the name to MORE less epic dm quests. I know they exist, just not that common for a low-magic, low-level server.
Quote from: CaddiesSemli, let's not advocate looting from packs in the middle of fighting in DM events! That shit is not cool.
I agree. I said it to draw attention to the fact it happens in these sorts of situations and there are few attempts at safeguards that I am aware of. That there are no rules about it, no game mechanic safeguards I was aware of to detect or prevent it (until I was informed through this thread) seems to me indicative of a tolerance if not acceptance of this style of play. If the opposite is true, however, I have also given the playerbase and DMs ample opportunity to talk about how bad it is.
Quote from: Aldrick TanithIsn't there a way for DM's to lock corpse bags during such events? I have seen it done before, and think it should become standard policy.
I'm glad to hear it! Good thing I started the discussion in this direction, and yes, I agree that it should become a more standard policy.
Quote from: Trackerheh. Someone looting during a DM event (risers porting in) lead to:
-Retribution.
Again, I'm glad to hear it! Most of the time these events occur in such a manner that no one was witness to the event, and since no mechanic exists to attempt to detect who may have pilfered your bag, oftentimes one can't even make a good OOC guess about who did it. The search function is a good attempt in this direction, making server savvy players fall back to just grabbing your gold.
Quote from: RequiemSo according to you, players should focus on questing periodically so that they can get involved in DM events? That does not sound very good to me.
The problem is, while lowbie quests are nice and all of that, a DM only has so much time, interest, and energy to pour into EfU. I think giving a lowbie quest occasionally is good practice, but lower level characters have a ton of deliveries to do and a lot of nearby, easy to run QAs as part of the server design. It is higher level characters that should be favored more by server wide events, or even just standard DM things, because by the nature of the server they risk more every quest they run, and typically require larger, harder to establish groups in order to quest effectively, thus increasing the amount of time in between events.
As a thought, there have been lower powered server events like a horde of Goblins assaulting the gates and perhaps things like that could be done more? Also, DMs spice quests in all level ranges. I got a tell from someone a couple of days ago saying that the Orchard had been spiced.
I remember in my first couple of weeks of EfU, Umberhulks attacked the Sanctuary gates, and Egon was there, plinking with his crossbow and singing. If your PC isn't tough, be smart if you want to participate and survive. Shoot, buff, heal people or set traps. Find a cluster of enemies and let off a bag of Choking dust at them. Run and make a sending to warn everyone what's going on. If your PC's badass, then that's a chance to show it off by single handedly holding off squads of Nightrisers, ganking the Orc leader or whatever.
People DEFINITELY get pwnt for theiving from bags. On the very first Wild Orc invasion, one PC I knew stole gold (about 1k total) from his IC enemies before packs started getting locked, and Mort said "you notice his gold pouch looks a lot bigger" to everyone in the area. He suddenly got a lot of hate.
Accept: You will Die, by your faults or by DooMs faults.
//OCC: I can't belive the DMs choice who will survive or not.
//roll spot
//you spot a wall lol
Quote from: tooh;107849Accept: You will Die, by your faults or by DooMs faults.
//OCC: I can't belive the DMs choice who will survive or not.
They don't, man!
QuoteQuoteOriginally Posted by The Beggar
To have non-epic DM quests we would have to have non-epic DMs. Since we only have access to epic DMs, non-epic quests are not a possibility.
Not since you stepped down, anyway!
*hangs head and kicks a rock. And sniffles*
DMs really don't decide who lives or dies on the quests. On quests that I ran I hated seeing PCs die to anything, and would routinely cringe and talk to the screen all the time.
"NO NO, don't touch that chest...Ah crap."
"NONONO don't cast colorspray while standing in the middle of a gaggle of pissed off trolls! *AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOOCRIT AOO -- dead wizard*
"LET THE SCOUT SCOUT! TRAPS YOU DUMMIES! *zzzZZAP!* Crap, I even put down bones and scorch marks, it should have been pretty obvious"
I rarely go on DM quests anyhow, just because of my oddball play times, my oddball characters, and also generally being an oddball myself. But if I did, personally I'd like to see some more non-combat quests. Travel to strange places, talk to NPCs and solve problems with your mind instead of your fist.
In kindergarten, I was the guy that enjoyed puzzles as equally as beating up on my friends.
It's true. I can't count the number of time's I've seen DMNPC's disengage PC's who were about to die. Or how they'd avoid killing a PC who was bleeding so s/he could be saved.
I won't get into the debate, just sticking to the original topic:
I think some more lowbie focused DM quest would be great, if any DM's feel like running such. I'm sure no one would disapprove. But of course as Howland brought up, events should be fun for the DM's as well, and not all of them get much out of small fry DM quests. (Heck, if I were DMing I'd be spawning ancient dragons on everyone, not toying about with puny goblins.. Because, you know.. I could, and things. :p )
Quote from: Aldrick Tanith;107998It's true. I can't count the number of time's I've seen DMNPC's disengage PC's who were about to die. Or how they'd avoid killing a PC who was bleeding so s/he could be saved.
That hit the nail on the head, though you still need to use caution after given a second chance, and, after nearly dying, it would make sense to back off and reconsider your actions.
Quote from: The Beggar;107957*"NO NO, don't touch that chest...Ah crap."
"NONONO don't cast colorspray while standing in the middle of a gaggle of pissed off trolls! *AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOO AOOCRIT AOO -- dead wizard*
"LET THE SCOUT SCOUT! TRAPS YOU DUMMIES! *zzzZZAP!* Crap, I even put down bones and scorch marks, it should have been pretty obvious"
This x infinity.