EFUPW Forums

I am aware that most natives of Old Port are rather speciesist, however, I don't see why the characrers who are not even from there/are from Ymph are just now taking this speciesist stance. I can understand it if it was a political character, but seeing people who are fresh refugees/characters I remember from Ymph say "halfling scum" it makes me curious if it fits with the character.

It is simply my own curiosity speaking. If a few players or a DM could sate it I would be very appreciative.

http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57151

If a character previously was not as racially sensitive as they are now that they're in Old Port, it sounds more like problem with inconsistent roleplay on the player's than a problem with racism in general.

Their characters are jumping on the bandwagon because all the cool people are doing it and they want to fit in. It's just herd mentality.

Herd mentality is IC for most too. It takes particular strength of personality or will to be otherwise.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it too much. *shrugs*  Who knows what's happened to said characters.  Could be IC, could be inconsistent RP.  Either way the best thing to do is worry about how you play your own char.

I was concerned from an OOC standpoint on why it is happening IC from characters who never showed an inch of it before

Even people who are not predisposed towards such may choose to embrace the ideology in order to gain favor or some measure of additional security within the powers that be. When a person is thrown out of their element, they often seek positions of safety for fear of being marginalized themselves. It is also possible that the person previously withheld such predilections and finds the release of targeted aggression, that will not spin back around on them, as a somewhat refreshing dose of power.

Or inconsistency, but keep in mind, no one is ever truly consistent.

Doc is going to explain this, and even include the history of the United States. Prepare for some racially charged statements, and major hypocrisy exposed. I am aware that IG history, and ooc history do not normally correlate however the history of the United States does correlate to the question posed by the OP.

Plenty of people when arriving to a new country, and new place will attempt to adapt, and assimilate to the native culture of that place. People who weren't otherwise racist will embrace it to either assimilate or to keep others off the playing field. In fact if one where to look at the history of the United States plenty of people came here from Ireland a place where basically no black people existed, and then started hating black people once they got in the states. The same applies to other immigrant groups as well.


United States History is full of people who came in, and then adapted racist values upon living here, and assimilating. In spite of people mostly being of Irish descent who where by, and large spat on, and insulted back in the day they then raised their kids to be racist. Take for example the Boston busing riots in the 1970s. In other words plenty of people showed up to America from countries where black people otherwise didnt exist, and then adopted racist values to fit in with being "white" and hating on the others.

Similar to how the grandchildren, and great grandchildren of immigrants (some of these grandparents were also not wanted in the United States by others.) are resenting a bunch of Mexican's illegally coming to the United States while otherwise ignoring the fact plenty of Eastern Europeans are doing the exact same thing.


In other words when people come to a new place they try to fit in, and its easy to do if your part of the ethnic majority which is in this came humans. Honestly it makes more sense for humans to do this because it honestly is pretty much human nature. Yea racism is often ridiculous, and hypocritical in Old Port plenty of the native Old Portans are wondering why their is a bunch of freaky undead refugees just like people were sick of the Irish, Germans ETC. So these people then attempt to assimilate to the dominant culture, and take on their values.


Its United States its also making sense for Old Port. Honestly the answers to the questions you where looking for could have easily been found RL.


-The Doc

Dr D, TAKING IT TO THE MAX.

The first sentence was enough to tell it is just nonsense not worth reading. This thread is pretty much closed. Not much more that hasn't been said.

tl;dr DRD

Just look at Nationalist Socialist Germany.  The common people were more than willing to be persuaded that "undesirables" were detrimental so long as the regime provided them prosperity and stability.  It is "herd mentality" because the shepherds offer something advantageous to the flock.

lol

Quote from: Knight Of Pentacles;343086tl;dr DRD

Just look at Nationalist Socialist Germany.  The common people were more than willing to be persuaded that "undesirables" were detrimental so long as the regime provided them prosperity and stability.  It is "herd mentality" because the shepherds offer something advantageous to the flock.

I concur definitely herd mentality.....Though USA is a better example of tons of immigrants coming in, and adopting the herd mentality of the dominant culture.

And lets not forget the Soviet Unions domination over several countries after the war!  


wink wink

Thanks Doctor Dragon, that was a very good point, very persuasive, and I accept it.

DrD; telling it how it is.

oh, well, when I think the Polynesian were to study at school that their ancestors had blonde hair and blue eyes, being called the Gauls...

... then next seeing the European Culture becoming dominant all around the world, you adopting it as a way to show you are minimally good and worth of go on living...

... or when I see in Brazil the girls killing their curls in the name of long straight hair...

... to behave accordingly the new rule would be the minimal thing.

It would be funny if the Old Port people had striking different garments from Mistlockians and people started wearing different clothes just to enforce externally the internal and more veiled cultural adaptations.

Haters are always going to hate.

DrD nailed it so hard.

Can't this just die...

Not all of us have finished praising DrD

Dear gods will a DM please lock this...

Nevar

This is a controversial subject, and we all should keep discussing it, we must all state here our feelings towards the matter and deal with this delicate issue, make RL comparisons, and analyze how or if the racism/speciecism in a fictional game can be hurtful for the fun of our fellow players or even hurt their feelings, as well analyze our fellow players the way they are playing their characters. DrD has strong points here, but I would like to hear more from the player base.

Placing realistic reasonings behind speciesism is really cool, actually. I remember Garem's character Coolidge professing his hatred of elves because his daughter went off to marry one and died in some war because of it.
 
Now, nothing has to be so well thought out or profound, but the reasoning behind hating half-orcs or stargazers was quite simple blame shifting and resentful emotions based on the crimes of orcs and the actions of the witch. Still, adding this sort of element creates a basis of interest in actually disliking one group over the other, or even proving the person wrong.
 
 
 For interest, spread a rumour that the halflings are actually all goblins in disguise, or formed some sort of treaty to take over the sewers, or go realistic, and say your mother was robbed blind by a gang of evil rogue halflings; It's more interesting.

I for one want to see more elven supremacists in Old Port.

The main reason why I posted here was because I was annoyed with how many players were jumping on the wagon, especially with how many of them once had been from Ymph having never been speciesist before.

Players, or characters, Kinslayer.

If we talk about players, it's natural they change their stance with different concepts.

If we talk about characters, they may have dozen reasons to change their stance and take on a role that would most benefit them in this current situation.

Whether it's an issue OOC or not, it doesn't make it wrong IC or in game, what ever their reasoning.

You are certainly right Paha. Thanks for the explanation.

Quote from: Paha;343293Players, or characters, Kinslayer.

If we talk about players, it's natural they change their stance with different concepts.

If we talk about characters, they may have dozen reasons to change their stance and take on a role that would most benefit them in this current situation.

Whether it's an issue OOC or not, it doesn't make it wrong IC or in game, what ever their reasoning.

Quote from: Pup;343057Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it too much. *shrugs*  Who knows what's happened to said characters.  Could be IC, could be inconsistent RP.  Either way the best thing to do is worry about how you play your own char.

Aside from this sarcastic post (//%22http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showpost.php?p=343285&postcount=25%22), I actually think specicism is a very very cool part of the setting, great source of conflicts, and don't forget that many refugees from Mistlocke who now live in the quarantined zone were town hicks, and never really appreciated all the outlanders and freaks in their village.