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We welcome player feedback about the End of the Third Chapter and initial impressions of the Fourth.

CHEERS WILDLY AND GIVES THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!

Incredibly well made, the new areas are awesome, and those projections telling the history of Sanctuary are really neat scripting.  10/10.

EFU:M's End.

Overall thematically the apocalypse was well done. As one of the people eager to rush into the fun of Old Port it was a great nihilistic and end of the world feel to it, so even as a ruse it was a great distraction during the transitional period. The NPCs and overall ambiance of the area gave it a great vibe.

People were genuinely afraid of Ymph and any alternative, even a corrupt one, is something people tolerated in the face of extinction.

Re-introducing "The Way" And the subsequent march below was thematically great and overall an excellent push into the new setting. Though my two attempts failed I feel it would have been quite the accomplishment to succeed and am eager to see how the Old POrt/Ymphian PCs integrate into the new setting.

Initial reactions:

The Prologue is one of the best damn areas I have ever seen on EFU. You guys have outdone yourselves both thematically and as an introdcutory area to the new setting. The altar, the graffiti, etc. It's all just a great welcome to the tone and grim setting as EFU returns to the Underdark.

How are you guys not getting paid for this?

smh donate evry tiem

The whole process was amazing, several awesome events, the way it was carried out impressed me... I followed mostly of it through forums and IRC or unimportant characters, and it exceeded all my expectations. I'm super excited about chapter four, I have no doubt it'll be the best so far. for what I've seen it looks really good, not to mention I'll finally get a little taste of what it was like back in the first chapter, that the veterans talk so much about.

I like how merchants no longer charge outrageous prices for rather mundane things.

It's very nice to have a chance to get through as opposed to a simple wipe.
 
I think the pcs who had brought about the Darkening should have some sort of memorial or in game presence possibly as npc villains somewhere.
 
I'm not sure how much of the Illithid empire is source and how much is Howland's, but they remind me very strongly of the way the world seems to be headed.

QuoteThe Prologue is one of the best damn areas I have ever seen on EFU. You guys have outdone yourselves both thematically and as an introdcutory area to the new setting. The altar, the graffiti, etc. It's all just a great welcome to the tone and grim setting as EFU returns to the Underdark.

please! more of this.
I love this kind of stuff. I want more grimdark!

So, I really enjoyed this start! Let not the Sanctuary go without it.

Shoot more Horror/ Mystery!

It is difficult to find the words that truly express our appreciation, because even saying “thanks” seems inadequate.  Especially when you consider the great length, selflessness and sacrifices (plus comical antics) made by our DM team to ensure that we have a platform of expressing ourselves and allowing our imagination to wander unrestricted.

It is good that we have returned to our roots and the aspect that best defines us as a community. 10/10. A masterpiece.

On a more personal note, the Underdark is a painful reminder of my notorious days as someone who was out to cause grief. Hence EFU:R represents Redemption and another chance to finally close that chapter with a positive contribution.

I am a big fan of the new setting.

It just feels a lot more alive than the lost one, especially with the lack of withering - now people can roleplay outside the main hub without fear of becoming more diseased.

The fact that the main hub itself is also more of a city than a village also great, kudos to the DM team!

I'm simply speechless.
Expected a 'twist'. But nothing on such a grand scale.
Amazing.

I was totally faked out by the final twist. I had expected some sort of new setting based either on Old Port or Amn, but nothing like this. It was very well done and the narrative DM shouts left me all but stunned.

I was concerned about how new PCs would find Sanctuary, but the device of the Machine rescuing survivors is a splendid replacement for the Mythallar. Thank you. It will save a lot of stretching in the creation of backstory for new characters.

I am looking very much forward to this chapter as I had heard much about Sanctuary but arrived too late to EfU to experience it.

And once again, thanks for the massive effort put forth by all the DMs!

~tOH.

There are no words to express how pumped I am about this UD setting.. hounded on by abberants and illithids no less!!!

The End was just as frightening and horrifying as one can make it. I came late into the game with EfU, joining on with EfU:M, so I definitely look forward to seeing Sanctuary in all its glory and having a chance to see what veterans here rave about.

Love the return to the Underdark. Love the story arc. Amazing twist. I think I will really enjoy the new setting.

If I am being 100% honest a tiny bit of me is disappointed that the concept that I came up with in Old Port and had started to really enjoy is unlikely (though I know it is theoretically possible) to get to the Underdark as they are an ill equipped level 5 Bard, but I will stick with it just in case.

Oh my god! This is enough to bring me back to play again. The  underdark setting was one the big appeals to me when I first started playing NWN, and the quality of the new environment is simply amazing.

For the first time in over a year, I'm truly excited to be playing again, woo!

It's just the right amount of new vs old-- a lot to see that is full of nostalgia for those of us who have been around forever, and a great deal new to see and explore.
I really look forward to stepping out of my hiatus and seeing what is in store for us here in the Underdark this time around.

I'm so happy to be back in Sanctuary I almost shed a tear of joy.

Yaaay

Now you just have to make sure EfU 5 is set in space or in the planes and I will at once donate all my earnings to you every month and sell you my organs.

But no, good job, as always. :)

Spelljammahs oh yea.

Anyhow.  I really like how this chapter has taken a much larger scale than any of the previous.  Instead of being one person on a small patch of the Prime, you're one of the last free-willed survivors in the entire Multiverse.  It makes every little thing you do seem ten times more significant.

I absolutely love the way this all went down.

Finally there is no more looming feeling of there being "bigger and badder" things out there. In a way before it always felt like we were playing in a sheltered, low-magic area of a much more magically rich, uber powers that would be elsewhere.

Now that the playing field is level, and we are all essentially "the best anyone's got"....it feels much more impactful and interesting to me. It's hard to explain, but it brings a much greater level of storytelling to our actions now that we are some last sanctuary of free life, that there are no longer any Elminsters lingering in the planes to come rescue us with their Mary Sue powers.

Having said that, I'd like to comment on the fate of those who escaped-

It ended up feeling a little bit shallow to me to escape, only to be told in not so many words"really just don't bother keep playing that PC". I get why, and I actually agree. But I think it would have been more palpable to me if we had known from the offset "if you manage to survive and escape the End, you will be retired and immortalized in some fashion (small area with statues of surviving PC's or of something of the nature)"

Just my personal opinion, but I think it would have been a more interesting way of getting everyone to move on from surviving PC's rather than disabling respawns and letting everyone who survived peter off at the first  death they have after having gone through the grueling way down.

Quote from: Vlaid;343897I absolutely love the way this all went down.

Finally there is no more looming feeling of there being "bigger and badder" things out there. In a way before it always felt like we were playing in a sheltered, low-magic area of a much more magically rich, uber powers that would be elsewhere.

Hm. I see where you are coming from, but I never really felt that way myself. I personally envisioned the magic level to be the same everywhere in EfU Faerun and Ymph being an important corner of the world, at least magically speaking. Not necessarily the most important one -- but one where big things could happen, and as it turned out, they did!

QuoteNow that the playing field is level, and we are all essentially "the best anyone's got"....it feels much more impactful and interesting to me. It's hard to explain, but it brings a much greater level of storytelling to our actions now that we are some last sanctuary of free life, that there are no longer any Elminsters lingering in the planes to come rescue us with their Mary Sue powers.

I cannot begin to describe how much I loathe the notion of NPC ubermages lurking to move in and clear up PC messes. While I have no problem with powerful NPCs unknown and unknowable to players that pursue enigmatic agendas of their own, I always hated the setup of having a bunch of super-powered demigods hanging around as the Deus Ex Machina police. I cannot describe the joy it brought to my heart when Elminster was killed off and my sole regret is that the Simbul wasn't likewise brutally and horribly killed at the time. I can only hope that whatever poor mind flayer has eaten her brains won't be killed by food poisoning.

~tOH.

I'm really excited for the new setting. The end of the world came about in a way I'm sure no one really anticipated, touched on obscure Faerunian law in a nice way, and nicely wove the stories of Ymph and Sanctuary back together. Just fleeing Old Port, scavenging in the prologue, I'm already getting this terrible sinking feeling that eclipses even seeing the Agony rip Rabbanatha in half.

The new emphasis on survival is great. I adore how wilderness survival let's you go without food. Really makes you feel like a badass when  you range out into the underdark away from Sanctuary.

Quote from: Vlaid;343897Having said that, I'd like to comment on the fate of those who escaped-

It ended up feeling a little bit shallow to me to escape, only to be told in not so many words"really just don't bother keep playing that PC". I get why, and I actually agree. But I think it would have been more palpable to me if we had known from the offset "if you manage to survive and escape the End, you will be retired and immortalized in some fashion (small area with statues of surviving PC's or of something of the nature)"

Just my personal opinion, but I think it would have been a more interesting way of getting everyone to move on from surviving PC's rather than disabling respawns and letting everyone who survived peter off at the first  death they have after having gone through the grueling way down.

But I'd like to echo Vlaid's sentiment. The high rate of PC turnover definitely moves the server along. But after escaping into the new setting it feels a little hollow; is the take-away message "Play your PC if you -want-, but we'd prefer you step aside?" With the inability to respawn hanging over your head it forces you to be careful, but also it seems to discourage a lot of the more fun risks (BoM quests, etc.) as even just questing against high-critting enemies can spell a rather dull end for your PC; or worse yet leave to a dull life.

I have not even played yet because I'm still too excited about this and can't decide what I want to do. I feel like every off-hand comment I ever made in IRC about what I loved about EFU was made manifest in this new setting. As a grown-up, this is the closest I've come to the feeling of Christmas morning since the Nintendo.

Quote from: PlayaCharacter;344041I have not even played yet because I'm still too excited about this and can't decide what I want to do. I feel like every off-hand comment I ever made in IRC about what I loved about EFU was made manifest in this new setting. As a grown-up, this is the closest I've come to the feeling of Christmas morning since the Nintendo.

Thank you playa, this captures my feelings about the new setting perfectly.

I played a goblin today who died on the same day. It was glorious and some of the most fun I've had on EfU in a while. Sanctuary and the Underdark as a whole is a brilliant setting and I'm very happy to see a return to it.

Oh.  The death of abunch of useless gods is nice too,  Moar pls

In the conclusion of the EFU:M I had the chance as a player to finally have my finger on the big red button, and that allowed me to live out one of my dreams as a player to be active in the change of the server in a major event. Thank you to Howland and the Mortals, and all that jazz. It was truly an epic experience.

The idea to escape Ymph and undeath at all costs was invigorating, and I saw a lot of players really stepped up their RPing. The feeling that the ship sinking time to jump ship was real. I remember wandering the Ymph, and feeling so alone and deserted, and this was truly the End. There was almost a sense of mourning for me in the end of this chapter because even though H'bala was defeated Ymph was still lost.

I have to take my hat off to the players that really facilitated the closing of this Chapter, but while I say that I can't ignore the players that may have had supporting roles. Supporting roles always have a special place in my heart because I like to play those roles a great amount. Great job players, keep it up because are walking the hallowed grounds of Sanctuary, and for some of you this is the first time while for others, like myself, it is a return to home.

I can't imagine how it was as DM to watch it all come to pass, and know where the next chapter was moving. As I have yet to log in and see the changes of Sanctuary and revisit old stomping grounds, I look forward to seeing the changes in the Underdark.

Now as a Player of multiple characters that has longed to return to the surface, seen the Sun of the surface and walked underneath its warmth, and watched it swallowed up and destroyed helplessly as hordes of mindless creatures swarmed the surface. It is only fitting that we return to the very place that birthed us, but not to use as a hidden Sanctuary, but a Sanctuary to regroup and muster the full strength of a town that despite all odds and abandonment has survived where all other places have fallen.

Cheers!

-UnholyWon

I am extremely excited about the server moving forward. I liked EfU, thought EfU:A was a needed break, got really intrigued with EfU:M, and am blown away by EfU:R. Really looking forward to all of this DMs.

I liked it. First night after going into the Underdark, I dreamt I was an elf in a hideout, urging a human child not to go out into the dark. He did, I heard terrible screaming, and he returned dead/abberationed. Good stuff.

Being able to constantly reinvent and keep a 10+ year old game both exciting and visually beautiful is something akin to witchcraft I tell you! I'd be interested to know how long this next idea has been planned for, too.

Had a wander round yesterday, the "Fallout" vibe of the prologue and the return to the Underdark setting I love greatly.

Super stuff, looking forward to actually getting involved and not getting torn apart by Beholder Kin and other nasties while walking about where I shouldn't have been!

I just want to say that I think the bright orange Safety Cloaks are a brilliant idea. Kudos to whomever came up with that idea, it's effin' perfect.

Reminds me so much of this (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5lJE31cy28s&t=328%22).

I have returned full time now and personally welcome the return to the Underdark. I played the first tour through the underdark and most of the 2nd chapter on Ymph. I skipped 99% of Mistlocke to take a break, but so far I'm happy to see the Underdark return to it's prominence.

I played the first chapter when you guys just got started only for a little bit, but I thought everything was great. Now since I have gotten the privilege to play through a whole chapter in Mistlocke, I thought the DM's and players really brought things to fruition in a awesome way. The story feels fluid, and on going with so much opportunities.

I just really love all the things done, and appreciate the hard work the staff here has put into this world.

End of Chapter 3 was kind of like, Rocks fall, everyone dies (//%22http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies%22). It ended up just being IC for my PC to not go on a suicidal romp down the Last Gate.

I can understand why it would be desirable from a DM standpoint, but for me personally that was a downer as I really found my character of the time would have been an excellent fit within the setting on the ongoing pursuit of secrets and upset of the throne of Gods. (Certain arguments pertaining to 'old characters' don't make sense for everyone--though I accept and support applying the general rule until some exception, i.e. via application/DM discussion is made.)

It was good to see ShadowCharlatan offer a prelude and provide options for characters with a strong narrative direction though. Which I would have gladly taken up, but I managed after several trial characters to get into EFU:R's Sanctuary (thanks to joining the elven moot basically right out of character creation and joining their wild tour around the Underdark as a useless level 2) and look forward to the Revelations that await, with the intention of playing a part in their uncovering and realisation.

A bit shaky at first, but I'm happy now.

I echo aethereal's statement, I did feel a bit let down dying to wordless thrall mob having just defeated and survived hbala but I do appreciate the fact having characters move setting is far too messy.  

I do think it all ended rather well though save for stargazers, their plots just seemed rather pointless which may have been due to reluctance to giving players the plot items earlier on but maybe there is more to come!

Real good stuff though, and I'm enjoying the new setting x

To me, the end of the last chapter was an emotional ride. From a grim setting, to a hopelessness and despair that I could never have imagined experiencing from a game.

Then, with oldport I was revived. I thoroughly enjoyed those couple of weeks in oldport. Plotting, gaining power, the sheer conflict that such a small place presented was astonishing. I suspected some kind of survival challenge was coming, yet when it did come I was left a bit disappointed by it.

Yet, I also understand the importance of a "fresh start" to this setting.

Sanctuary, has brought back the feeling of fear I had when I first joined the server. Exploring too far is dangerous, hell, even exploring close to home has resulted in a few close calls.

I like the change in level ranges, I like the way factions are operating, the detail to sanctuary, the story, the possibilities to me right now, are endless.

Unfortunately I do have some gripes, which I hope are a transitional thing.

The first being, questing. While, yes it is nice to see that the level range has dramatically dropped, that quests actually require some brains to complete. I feel that we are promotion small experienced quest groups, over large organised rabbles mixed of new and old players.

Spellcaster, whether clerics, bards, sorcerers or wizards, have a huge advantage in this setting for questing.

More so, certain perks that added flavour and a boost in the previous settings are now giving classes a rather massive boost in strength, in comparison to other classes.

Its hard to find a nice balance, to make things challenging enough that we do not see a supply bloat or numerous high end pcs. But at the same time, right now, I believe the message is coming across in a different tone and is causing allot of OOC frustration.

Story-wise, I deeply enjoyed the immense changes that the server has seen. I am impressed by the scale and intricacies of the story, and I am hooked by the sheer amount of mysteries left to be uncovered. I am also excited at the prospect of having a few, carefully selected haks. the sheer amount of possibilities this change will bring is astonishing.

Concerning the mechanical changes, more specifically the new level range and the change in the supply system, first of all, I am sure they are undergoing significant adjustments and will continue to evolve in the next couple of months. that said, I've a couple of remarks.  

I still believe the 3.0 D20 system shines around level 8. I throughly enjoyed the previous level ''softcap'' in the sense that it gave an astonishing amount of possibility and build varieties. Many classes truly bloom around 8, for instance - the 2/3 AB classes receive their second APR at this level, a very consequential change.

As for the supplies, I used to be the first one to cry out against the drinking duels, for they had some sort of ridiculous feel to them. Then again, I adapted, and I became fond of the tactical aspect offered by consumables. Nonetheless, there is no denying that The EFU:M supply bloat issue we have experienced prior to the introduction of withered potions was indeed damaging to the general balance of the game.

I'd be more in favor, personally - of a system which would limit each potion types to a fixed number, for instance - five of each, while keeping them reasonably common (albeit less so than before) while questing. No more supply bloat, without crippling scarcity.

As Crytalos rightfully points out, the current system bends the balance further towards experienced, optimized groups. New players, or even - suboptimal class combinations, risk experiencing significant frustration.

As for the caster/non-caster class equilibrium, I'd say that for a full AB classe, receiving their second APR at level 6 offsets the downsides of having lower supplies compared to the 2/3 AB classes, given that most of them will never see their second APR.

Rogues, on the other-hand, fit in neither category. Both changes to supply levels and the soft-cap has impacted them more than others, I'd say.

To a lesser extend, this reasoning applies to sorcerers as well, since their supplies of spells at early levels are extremely limited, and somewhat offset by the level 8 perk benefits and the availability of new spells offered at higher levels.

I know it is very difficult to adjust these aspects, as each solution to an issue creates a new set of concerns. That said, I'm confident that in time, we will converge towards a good equilibrium.

I think the level range isn't going to be so different as you guys seem to think. It's just now there's actual low level content, so advancement is a bit slower, and of course players are still figuring things out. But already we're starting to see the levels creep up quite a bit and more PCs starting to get very wealthy.

I would also remind players that in a setting in which gold is obviously far more plentiful perhaps they need to invest in supplying themselves a bit more rather than just having all the potions they could ever possibly want just fall out of  trees.

Naturally we don't want to make things impossible or too challenging for newer players but it's far better to work up from too little rather than start with too much.

There are so many new ways of earning gold in the new setting that aren't just limited to questing and faction membership that everyone has a good chance of being well supplied now I'd think. Even those who aren't tip top questing champions.

The only problem for me so far has been a distinct lack of divine brewers, but that's probably more down to my timezone than actual lack.

So many positive comments... looks like I have to be the one to throw the wrench into the steamworks. I hope I don't get railroaded for giving my honest opinion, as I assume that that is what this thread is for.

I honestly think this is a great server. There are things I've seen that I wouldn't have ever thought of while making a mod. However, despite my positive feelings towards the server, the parts where I reserve favour are in the presentation. I feel like a lot of the areas are too jumbled together, with no real direction. If I enter a doorway, and the front of the building is facing west, I except to enter a building going eastward bound. Not northward. In that regard, orienteering has become a challenge of pathfinding, rather than the knowledge of knowing landmarks. In the real world, i'm fairly good with a map and compass. It's not hard to figure out where you're going if you know what direction something is, based on the direction the face of a mountain faces. On here, you can't do anything like that, and it's not like it's impossible. There are many servers with seamless transitions. Before anyone starts on distance traveled warping perspective, i'm aware of that. But I really don't like the idea of going up the stairs, and through the main gate, only to return to the city from below it when I haven't been travelling straight down.

My other reservation has to do with the clutter of all the placeables making up the houses/ruins, and the massive gaps left in the floor of sanctuary, that have so many bridges spanning them. This is only my opinion, so I would appreciate not being flamed for this, but I would like to see the underdark city tiles being used the way they're meant to be used. Sanctuary doesn't need many winding streets, but the way it seems is that it doesn't really have any streets, unless you count the one or two below the town. I mean, I think Lower's exterior isn't too bad. I like the streets a lot. I would, however, prefer to see underdark building tiles pushed more into close quarters, forming narrow streets in upper, instead of having them on the outskirts with a few towers in the middle. I would also love to see more Drow and Illithid interiors for the pre-existing buildings, mixed with Barrow, maybe Fort, and Prison interiors for the buildings that the new residents have built (provided they're matched with exteriors like Poor Sector, or Cave Entrances), instead of the Castle and City interiors that either have too much wood in it, or simply don't fit. The Fort, Barrow, and Prison interiors can be made to look like they've been thrown together by surfacers, but I think it's important to consider that Dunwarren was originally built by Deep Gnomes, and that their architecture is not only still present, but still in use. It just feels like the deep cultural flair is missing from Sanctuary architecture, and that it's interiors all belong on the surface. As Howland told me story wise "The DM's have a pretty good sense of where the story is going." Maybe i'm over thinking it. Perhaps the DM's also know where the server belongs architecturally, but that's just how I feel. There are certainly a lot of things I would have done differently, but I trust the staff to make the decisions that have made this server a fun place to be. The harsh environment, the player base, and the creativity have all made it worthwhile, so in that regard, I would still give the server an 86%, which is an "A."

I really appreciate the constructive criticism and welcome negative comments/players to indicate what they don't like. Thanks for that!

That said - I genuinely do think the areas match together, the problem is that we are not making clear when you're going down/up and to what extent. NWN really doesn't handle elevation very well. Maybe I can try to make it more clear with descriptor triggers or something. This map (http://oi44.tinypic.com/169okr5.jpg) maybe helps?

Upper Sanctuary is intended to have the feel of being suspended over/on top of a pit in which Lower dwells. The use of chasms/bridges is very deliberate, although I can respect if it's not to your taste. Incorporating both many streets and chasms, given limitations of the toolset, would make Upper a hugely sprawling area, too large for a PW. The design now is to try to encourage interaction between characters, which I think at least has been somewhat successful. Consider the streets the narrow parts, the bridges, etc.

As far as interior areas goes, most of the interior areas of Sanctuary were constructed by surfacers using zurkhwood or stone. Practically the only original svirfneblin building in Upper is the Spellguard Tower. I also strongly dislike the use of the drow interior tileset for anything other than actual drow areas, as the depictions the drow on the walls is otherwise somewhat distracting.

But anyway thanks for the comments!

I missed the Big Transition and the first few hectic days and I've had some trouble assimilating my character from Ymph into the settlement of Sanctuary. Maybe because there was a lot to catch up on, from announcements and posts on the forum, to new mechanics when it comes to Sanctuary- but the transition from Ymph to Sanctuary feels so stark and complete that I've ended up feeling a bit like a useless relic and not really managing to figure out (yet?) where the character fits in now.

It might have been nice if there was more of Ymph/Mistlocke in Sanctuary to bridge the gap, then again it may be just me.

Quote from: Chronicler;351168...It might have been nice if there was more of Ymph/Mistlocke in Sanctuary to bridge the gap, then again it may be just me.

There's a whole plot around those who came from Ymph and even an area made for them. There are NPCs and a lot of connections.

Sanctuary is very nice. I am glad normaly lvl cap is not 9 and 10, but 6-7. Locations and factions looks like nice and quests are nice like ever. Tramway and a lot of things are epic! I am happy supplies aren't here a lot.

Great job.

I have to express a different opinion. Visually and thematically the new module is spectacular. The quests and systems are also amazing. Sanctuary is great, the underdark is great, etc etc. I even like being able to buy some supplies instead of having to hunt them down.

However!

I don't necessarily like the new lower level/lower supply paradigm. I don't play games to roleplay as johnny commonfolk, the unimportant bloke who can't get anything done - there's a limit to what an army of level 6's can do. I simply feel as if the focus on lower levels has reached a point where it is becoming harmful to the server. HARDER is not BETTER.

That being said I don't think it's a huge issue, at the same time. Getting to level 5 was simple enough, and by the looks of it there are opportunities to quest hard and level/loot up. It can be very hard to explore however when almost any random spawn can murder you in two rounds. I do find however I have less interest in playing these days.

Have you actually tried? Low level groups are going out all the time, into the Underdark - the Machine - the Lowerdark -  everywhere (small example (http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81757)). I'm talking small groups of level 5-7 PCs that aren't min-maxed, aren't just staying in invis. When I see them I try to spice, run a little adventure, something small. I think this is an EFU golden age of exploration.

Level range is also not much different from former chapters, it's just taking a bit more time to get to 8-9 (although PCs are already arriving).

One of the nice parts of the setting change (and this happens every time we do it, so I hope there's another one in the pipes for the Grand Finale!) is that people once again band up and explore, even if it's dangerous. I can log on and join a small band of travelers and have fun; I like it. It's very P&P.

I play EfU to forget about real life and it's still delightfully good at that. If only I had more time, eh?

Things I love about the new setting:

• The balance.
• Safety Cloaks. So perfect to set the tone for the Spellguard.
• The illusion and the shield. What an amazing concept.
• The loss of certain gods. I never realized how much that would matter.
• The balance.
• The desperate feeling of survival. Ymph never really had that.
• The design and layout of the House of Heroes. It rivals the Rock Bottom in terms of encouraging role play.
• The new quests. They really showcase the design talent of the DM team.
• Did I mention the balance?
• Set items. I may never use a set, but I'm glad they exist.
• The recent trend of flavorful DM spice which does not necessarily lead to a loot pile. The server feels more alive than I've ever known.
• Lower is back. Fuck yes.
• Lightstones. I mean, this is just plain cool.
• All the DMs. I mean all of you. You are doing God's work.
• The balance.

Thanks for putting it into words far better than I ever could, Playa.

I think Harder is more important and better. Why we play efu? Because we love RP i think, no because we want play on this server with WoW style and MMORPG style, but RP is the important thing.

For me is Sanctuary Harder then Mistlocke, but why? Because Mistlocke we played two years? We forgot to times, when we have start in Mistlocke. When players will know quests, and a lot of other things in Sanctuary, it will be easy, but now, Sanctuary is new "concept", what we dont know a lot. ( i know Sanctuary is not new, it was in chapter 1 )

I feel Lower and its surrounding areas are empty to the point of feeling unfinished. I know it's not supposed to be as lively as it was back in original Sanctuary but I think it could stand to be a lot more alive than it is. I should mention that I'm not particularly interested in hearing/discussing plot/setting rationalisations for this absence of content, as no matter how devastated somewhere is from gas attacks, chosen, whatever, you can always find a way of reflecting this by adding or altering content, rather than wiping content away and making somewhere dead and uninteresting.

I think there should be far more desperados, resident monster tribes that have moved in to the now vacant premises/architecture, and so on to interact with, and more things to do e.g. low level fetch and carry quests for new PCs so you can start a PC in Lower and keep them there the entire time. Virtually all of the interiors to Lower are now locked off or are broken transitions, and the exteriors have just been wiped of anything interesting. I think it disincentivises people to make outsider PCs and instead of having an almost 50/50 (maybe 60/40, even so I'm willing to bet someone will disagree with this) split, it's more like 90/10 in favour of Upper. It's not good as it doesn't drive serverwide conflict and PC antagonism.

One of the strongest aspects of original EFU was this antagonism between Upper and Lower, as you immediately had a built in conflict ready to be explored the moment you set foot in the server. I am actually finding it quite hard to care about the dynamics of Upper at the moment as it feels like it's settling into the homogenous rut that other PWs find themselves in, where all PCs just gather in the same town square and do nothing. By focusing so much on Upper we've lost a massive amount of what made EFU such a compelling place to play.

Lower is a bit of a clean slate at the moment, and there are definitely plans afoot to develop it (along with PC initiative). It is true that it could nevertheless use more content now; but it's not terrible and there seems to be lots of PCs who are hanging out down there more often than not. But it is true it is somewhat "unfinished," those DMs that were active in the end of the EFU:M plot as well as building this chapter simply are limited in terms of what we can do with our energy/time.

Interesting ideas for content that can be added to Lower that don't just precisely mimic old stuff would be welcome (http://www.efupw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42).

While I don't agree with everything you're saying Ladocicea, (there's quite a bit of conflict built-in among the factions of Upper that I've noticed, but haven't really been pushed by PC's IMO) I would agree with a lot of it. It was definitely nostalgia that drove me to playing a Lower-based concept right off, and while it made sense for just about everything to be blown to hell, it was rather depressing to see transitions that could exist remain broken. Doors that can be picked led to nowhere, secret tunnels to old hideouts remain behind locked doors, rubble blocks off some of the main draws in the sewer, etc. I remembered feeling a little guilty early on- I could see how much work had been put into Upper Sanctuary and other parts of the server, and it felt like I was spitting on that by playing in one of the more barren sections.

That said, as Lower stands at the moment, it's the PC's that will draw attention to the district as a whole, rather than the attractions. There were times where half the server would be chilling in the Crone after I made a sending, and we would need to push people out of a quest group from having too many. But it was a group concept intended for Lower, and now I get the feeling that any solo PC's trying to work a fringe concept will burn themselves out in boredom- either waiting to interact with others in one of the two places to spawn, or clashing with quest groups sweeping through Lower.

I've heard that Lower will almost certainly grow, and I suppose that means we should be patient- but in the meantime, I kind of get the sense that yes, you shouldn't be mucking about in Lower too much 'until it's ready.'

Come to Lower, we'd love to kill entertain you...

Oh no, by all means enjoy Lower! I'll try to spruce things up a bit; but as I said fresh ideas for cool new content would be very welcome. Although a little patience for your exhausted if devoted builder-team is a nice thing to pair it with :)

I must say as a returning player I very much enjoy the increased interaction/DM spicing that I'm seeing between the players and the DMs in game.  They aren't always huge undertakings that lead to many deaths and lots of loot.  Many are smaller, shorter scenes that are actually a lot of fun to be a part of and really keep things interesting.

Kudos to you all!  It's actually keeping my interest very high and I look forward to logging in as frequently as possible.

I'd like to add a point about Lower, to echo and amplify what ShadowCharlatan said.

Lower Sanctuary is and always has been a player canvas. Outside of the House of Light, the Tigereyes, and more recently the Seekers, the DM-led factions pretty much stay out. As far as the DM team is concerned, the biggest empty hole I see in Lower is the dearth of quest content. While it is true that Lower is presently a difficult place to start a PC, it is also simultaneously the easiest place to finish one, and I'm not talking about PvP.

The upper (Upper?) limits of success within the shield are conditioned by the DM factions themselves. You simply will not ever achieve a high level of arcane mastery in Upper Sanctuary without the Spellguard eventually crawling up your ass and co-opting whatever it is you're doing. You will not ever attain more power of force than either the Watchers or the Warders without one or both of them coming along to take you down a notch. Those factions rule supreme in Upper Sanctuary and short of mobilizing the entire playerbase against them there is nothing you can ever do to change that.

Put simply, you can't beat 'em. Eventually you will have to join 'em. Perhaps not as an official member, but you're going to end up working for them one way or another.

Lower, on the other hand, is where Aleczumberzeil te Esoterotept eventually learned to walk the planes. Lower is where Montezzi established a base of power so large and imposing that even the DM factions of Upper were forced to negotiate with him. Lower is where the Seekers went when they finally decided they'd had enough of Sanctuary's shit, taking the entire Frederick Bresely plotline with them. Lower is the launching pad from where Uncle Worn achieved Bresley's dream and escaped from the Underdark.

If you want to make a long-term character that will shake the foundations of the setting, make true change, and most importantly, do it on your own terms, Lower Sanctuary is where it's going to happen. The best way to do that is to start out now, establishing a strong presence there before anyone else, slowly building your power base, and carefully managing your resources. By the time the DM team comes along with some new content that draws in fresh PCs, you will already be poised to either rule or lead them as you see fit.

I have highly enjoyed EfU:4 so far, I think a sterling job has been done by the DM team. Most of the neat things have been recognised already, like the glorious plot unfold and the mega nostalgic rush of being eaten in the dark. So I’ll just point out a few special things I really like, and one thing I miss from EfU:3, just because I am an old sourpuss at heart.

I like the pure polish of the new setting. I know that the template was already there, but I was just gobsmacked at how much there was to do in the Underdark right out of the gate. Newly revamped factions, politics, quests, new explorable QAs etcetera etcetera. So much appreciation for how much work was put in silently behind the scenes. Its like some crazy out-of-control surprise after work office party; where you look around in a drunken haze at three AM, and see two half naked hookers and a midget clown sniffing coke off a baby petting rhino, and just think, “do they really like Bob that much?”

I also really like the all the moving parts that players get to tinker with without needing DMs. The baublium meter, the new multi-piece armour sets, the climbing mini-games, the fishing, that spoiler I cannot spoil, oh, and actually that other spoiler, now I come to think of it. Anyhow, there seem to be lots of non-RP things to do without needing to lean on the DMs, and I rate that highly.  

I love that when I finally crawled over the line and was rewarded with a rather sterling piece of DM loot, it was really well designed. It was thematic, useful in an odd way, power level nuanced, but by far and away best of all, it didn’t have “//do not use unless you are PLAYER X” written across the top. I nearly swooned. If this is a trend, not a mistake, it is one I am all for. Nothing seems less fair to me than DM loot that you had to fight against in PvP, but cannot wear as the victor. The problem of looting PvE downed players is mostly resolved, so I would love to see an end to “//do not use” markers on every second item. It only gives loot character if it’s been around the block a few times.[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"] The Eternal McGuffinator of Roland Hammerelbow[/FONT] [FONT="Verdana"]Hannah Widehip[/FONT] [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Grishmook the Bloated[/FONT] Jimmy Quickfingers is a great name for a weapon, imo.

Now for my gripe.

I miss H’bala!

She was awesome. She rates as one of my favourite fictional villains of all time. Up there with Hannibal Lector, Darth Vader and The Wicked Witch of the West. She was unique, logical in her evil motivations, deeply entrenched within a wider narrative flow, and every single time you logged onto the server she would fuck your shit up, without fail.

And that last point is what I miss most about her. One of the hard things about roleplaying in Faerun is we not only have nine alignments and seven races (without app) but also fifty plus gods to choose from; not to mention how ever many different national/cultural origins. When you are averaging 15ish players on the server at any given time, there’s a statistical probability that you will have no two players seeing eye to eye on morality, ascetics or what makes a good, tasty brunch.

But H’bala was a really unifying presence. You knew who the enemy was, and sure, that guy over there may burn gnomes by reflex; think baby skin is good in autumnal colours; and pack watercress sandwiches for the mid-quest brunch; but goddamn it, he didn’t just wither your arm until the pustules popped and leaked putrescence down your new shirt, so he was suddenly alright in your book! Together, unlikely allies, you went off hand in hand and got rofflestomped by some Flesh Gardeners, because everyone knows those guys had it coming.  

Of course now we have the Dread Empire (whose PR department really must have come back from a long lunch when they chose the name). We know the Dread Empire are burning our cherished ones and enslaving our homes in a really bad, bad, terrible, bad way on the surface. But all the puppy cerebro-spinal fluid draining and other horrors seems very far away and don’t seem to be having any kind of impact on the server at the moment (spoiler alert: this will change later on).  

I really feel a void where our collective distrust used to funnel away from each other and towards H’bala. I like Mad Marge, for example, but she is far from the archetypal nemesis villain whose face we can all agree we would rather punch in the face than one’s fellow PC. There was a weird camaraderie when Crow and Stag went shoulder to shoulder to take turns getting slapped around by a bunch of druids milliputtyed together, because when shit got real, everyone knew who the real enemy was.  

So I hope that as the story unfolds, the Dark Empire gains a figure head of some sort. One worthy to be cut out and stuck on dart boards across the city. And I hope that the Dark Empire finds some equally annoying middle ground between being irrelevant and just outright killing us that the withering so skilfully filled in EfU:3, just to constantly remind us they are there, and not very nice.

The withering and H’bala were very clever unifying forces that made that incarnation of EfU:3 significantly more enjoyable for me than the previous, may these wisdoms not be forgot!

Please don't encourage our untimely demise through impressive displays of DM horror-craft.

To touch on some of Scrappayeti's stuff...

I didn't play EfU:M, but that does sound better than the lack of clear villains in EfU:A. Half the time, my characters wouldn't know who H'bala was, or Barakat, or even much about Old Port. The mystery was nice, but it was SO mysterious at times that my characters (and even I as a player) lost sight of what was going on in the world.

One thing that I'm loving so far is that learning about the mysteries around Sanctuary seems to be more open than EFU 1 and 2. You don't need a DM to go check things out, and it's not so incredibly challenging so as to make it impossible to investigate stuff without murdering ten PCs for their potions just to survive the standard spawns from Home Base to Mystery #1.

The game balance outside of quests feels very right.

I've always loved EfU in all it's incarnations, and am amazed that everything feels fresh still today.

I had thought that there was a danger that going back to the Underdark might be a mistake, after all, Old Port and the Rubies and everything surrounding that area might have made for an extremely interesting setting, but the truth is that the Underdark is amazing and better than ever, and somehow every little minor potion now feels like a small victory and treasure to possess, as opposed to one of a hundred more - PvP is now genuinely frightening, and not just the 15 minute supply-burners that some seemed to degenerate into in earlier settings!  Healing being scarce - long may it continue.

Maybe it does lack an antagonist for now, but I am sure that will change in time!

I know it's the end of the world and all

and any good story needs drama

still it would be appreciated if everything didn't have to be all grimdark all the time

that's the only trepidation I have about the setting change.

Suppose it's time for my two cents.

I came to this server towards, I think, the half-way point of EFU:M at the recommendation of my brother, and I nearly left several times. There's a difficulty curve (more like a sharp, jagged incline) to this place that can be immensely alienating at first, from the seemingly impenetrable lore to the unforgiving leveling and combat system. As scrappa eloquently pointed out, the Withering was an elegant means of unifying the focus of the setting, but it also presented a frustrating impediment to exploration and freedom in the setting. I liked what the withering did for the story, but I won't miss it as a mechanic.

But getting back on track, I eventually got over the difficulty hump after a slew of hit-or-miss characters and really started to enjoy myself without reservation towards the end of Mistlocke. It took several months of figuring out how to get noticed, how to involve myself, deal with frustration, learn the proper etiquette here, what's allowed and what isn't, etc. It took  patience that I feel a lot of casual players probably don't have - not a boast (I tend to learn by banging my head against walls, depressingly enough,) but more of an observation.

And, of course, is that necessarily a bad thing? By not dumbing things down or making things easier we have a server filled with great dyed-in-the-wool roleplayers who consistently make this story rewarding and enjoyable.

But let's get to Mistlocke itself as a chapter in EfU's history. As with most players, I think I only got half the story of what really went on here... if that. Maybe a quarter would be more generous. Part of the maddening appeal of this place is the knowledge that you're only ever going to see things from a very specific perspective - this server only rarely becomes all-encompassingly inclusive. How many dozens of stories have I only seen one side of, or missed entirely? How obvious were any one of my character's exploits, for that matter?

What I did see usually impressed the pants off me, of course, particularly towards the end. For a while I felt the story was kind of spinning its wheels as far as dealing with the "main villain" was concerned - of course, this was when the Transcendent Conclave seemed to be "happening" thing at the time, and I very rarely got to see any of that in action, so for a very long time it seemed there was little to do except play politics in Mistlocke and sit around the town square. Which I grew to hate, but more on that later.

Once the Enclave went and exploded, things seemed to pick up a bit more. For me, at least. I'm extremely happy with how the end game of the chapter played out, in no small part due to the high exposure I got to it. I've said this before, but everything from Owain's coronation to the final march against H'bala was pure roleplaying ecstasy.

And part of why I loved it was the utter sense of apocalyptic finality. The sense of approaching a finish line - for I was sick of Mistlocke, both as a setting and as a place, and was eager to see it go. The Agony destroying everything in sight was a moment of great catharsis for me.

I felt trapped by that little town, with its crumbling handful of buildings, to linger in its square and trade snide remarks with passersby. This gets back to my complaints against the withering - with everywhere else dangerous to travel, Mistlocke always felt very much like a cage to me. Though I had fun with them towards the end, the clans always felt a bit one-note and because of its tiny size the hamlet never felt like it had much to offer except for politics, a slew of incompetent mayors, and clan back-biting. It all comes down to personal preference, of course, but I much prefer the vast cosmopolitan quality of Sanctuary - a preference I was hoping to see validated by the move to Old Port, initially.

But Sanctuary has proven to be so much more than Old Port could have been. Maybe it helps that I was never here for the first chapter of EFU, but everything feels so fresh and new that I feel a tad overwhelmed by it all. So much so that I can't really provide reliable feedback on EFU:R until I've had a few months to truly get a feel for it. There's not much I'd recommend changing at this point.

Anyway, yeah, my nebulous thoughts and critique on Mistlocke. Bravo, guys.

I am biased.  I started in the Underdark, what seems so long ago. Walking around, seeing nods to past things I was part of, still in game, a scrawling here, a ruin there, is simply gratifying.  The blending of old and new feels seamless, as a setting.  A brand new place to explore, but with hints of familiarity that make it somehow..feel like returning home.

As a player,  I found it an unforgiving server chapter, harsh and nearly self defeating.          That is as it should be.               Not until I found a concept I was willing to put in the time, and yes, unfortunately it takes time to learn an entirely new setting and learn how to survive in it.  This is a harsh reality alot of us with work, families, school, et all have to accept, and swallow. I think perhaps those of us who had learned the ins and outs of efu:M and could go from creation to level 6 in a day or two, simply had culture shock in the new setting.  It was no different at the beginning of any of the chapters.   Advancement will come, but it may feel glacial.  In another month, I expect the server to be a strong 6-8 level base, as we all learn where quests are, and so forth. Alot of the player base already has.  I am strictly speaking from my vantage point.  I have only just begun to range beyond the shield of Sanctuary, then usually with a group or guide. What I am finding there, or I should say, feeling there, is that on edge adrenaline of not knowing what is around the bend!  And the new climbing aspect of the setting makes every map a chess game, and worthy of exploration.  

I waited some time before I posted, as I wanted to get a much better feel for it all. The balance issues seem to be getting sorted.  I do hope it never becomes as easy to accrue potions, and levels as EFUM got at the end, the survival feel now seems far more invigorating  then it was, the last days of EfuM not withstanding. Those were epic! Trying to simply walk to Thomas's shop and back, with minimal supplies, makes it a great adventure. Nothing seems like work, or a grind.  Every action,  holds the lure of something unexpected occurring, which is why we keep coming back.  Random Spawns, random exploration areas, hidden areas..digging, climbing, fishing even!  Never a dull day, unless you want one.

As to the learning curve, this game has been out 10 years? Maybe longer?  I do not think there are any new players coming in, in great numbers.  It seems like even the new faces to the server are old vets of the game and of rp.  The learning curve, perhaps is a great way to weed out the few who are looking for WoW.  I have seen it many times in DM posts.  This place is not for everyone. But for those who stick around to figure it out, it is a great home.  I think I have seen maybe 10 percent? Probably less of the server.  But so far, it is quickly becoming my favorite chapter. But like I said..I am biased.  UD is home for me, my birthplace in true CRPG and EFU. , as it were. Nothing but PNP before that.  So, keep it up! Hopefully my real world obligations allow me to roam the dark tunnels enough to stay current.  I know there is sooo much more to see. The very few balance issues seem fixed.  A simple thank you, is the best critique I can offer overall.  So..Thanks!