I am in the process of completely overhauling the Magister's Guild. With most of our members dead or placed on inactive, it has become clear that it is very hard to create an interesting single class only PC faction on EfU:A.
The Magister's Guild worked very well when we had the Society to compliment us, but due to various OOC and IC reasons the Society is no more. So, to that end, we are going to do something completely different. I want suggestions and feedback. What are you OOCly interested in interacting with? What are some of the things the guild should focus on?
I do not want the Magister's Guild to become Spellguard V2. I think that is how most people OOCly envisioned us. I want the Magister's Guild to be different. However, if you view a list of the core DM factions (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=peoples) you will clearly see all of them marked as excluding wizards. So for the official DM factions there is no place for a wizard.
I believe this does leave an opening for a wizard dominated PC faction, but due to OOC reasons it cannot only recruit wizard PC's. It cannot sustain itself. In revamping the Magister's Guild, it must focus on uniting people by common cause, something that is easy to ICly get people involved.
A simple philosophy, something along the lines of: "Only those with the knowledge of the arcane can truly protect the colony. This island was once ruled by wizards, and it will take wizards to understand what has been built. The Magister's Guild is united in its support of a lawful government that protects and defends the people. The Guild seeks to assist in that effort, but also more importantly: to understand. The Guild believes that only through properly understanding the island can the colony be protected."
The guild would then shift to try and fill the void left vacant by the Society, while maintaining its pro-wizard stance. Guild members would be united through an oath and common goals. The guild would work on seeking artifacts and relics of the past, as well as combating the many, many threats that face the colony. Oh - and of course... secrets. The guild shall work to keep secret some of the most dangerous knowledge on Ymph, to prevent it from falling into the hands of those who would use it against the colony.
I am looking for varied opinions and thoughts. Would this be a group that would OOCly grab your attention, and that you would be interested in getting involved with? Do you have any ideas that could enhance the idea behind the guild? Do you have any ideas what the guild can do on a day-to-day basis to keep people interested, active and tuned in?
Some stuff I'm throwing out there:
* I like the idea of Clerics of Mystra and Azuth holding special places within the guild. These are two deities that are not often embraced by PC's. These deities should definitely be able to embrace the guild. Below is the dogma of these two deities.
Mystra dogma: Love magic for itself. Do not treat it just as a weapon to reshape the world to your will. True wisdom is knowing when not to use magic. Strive to use magic less as your powers develop, for often the threat or promise of its use outstrips its actual performance. Magic is Art, the Gift of the Lady, and those who wield it are privileged in the extreme. Conduct yourself humbly, not proudly, while being mindful of this. Use the Art deftly and efficiently, not carelessly and recklessly. Seek always to learn and create new magic.
Azuth dogma: Reason is the best way to approach magic, and magic can be examined and reduced to its component parts through study and meditation. Maintain calm and caution in your spell casting and magic use to avoid making mistakes that even magic cannot undo. Use the Art wisely, and always be mindful of when it is best not to use magic. Teach the wielding of magic and dispense learning throughout Faerûn that the use and knowledge of magic may spread. Live and teach the idea that with magical power comes grave responsibility. Learn every new spell you discover and make a copy for the temple library. Do not hoard your knowledge, and encourage creativity in magic in all ways and at all times.
* I'd like to divide the guild up into two separate parts. One part, the leadership, would be wizards. The second part would be more like the Society: a collection of individuals who have embraced the philosophy of the guild and have taken the oath.
* I'd like to have a special place for fighters and fighter multi-classes in the guild. I am imaging a fighter who takes additional oaths, not to a guild, but to a particular wizard of the guild. Some type of honor-bond, in which the fighter is bound to protect the wizard even if it means death for himself. I am imagining it being almost Paladin-like in their oaths. A great deal of shame should be involved with allowing a wizard to die (any wizard), but an even greater amount of shame is felt when the one you've sworn to protect dies. Would playing this sort of PC interest anyone? I could see such PC's working to obtain the Weapon Master, Knight (especially the Knight) and Divine Champion (of Azuth or Mystra) PrC's.
* Maybe some type of special code or oath for wizards. An ethical code.
* The Archaeologist should make sense for this guild, and be the primary place such PrC's would want to join.
Just a random thought, but I think the primary goal of the Guild should be focused on, for what I understand, was the "Seeker's philosophy".
As the Seekers dedicated their time and resources scouting and searching ways back to the surface, to escape from the Underdark, the Magister's Guild could be directed towards finding ways to revert the magical properties that brought people to the Ziggurat to ecape the Archipelago, instead of acting as a political force to consolidate it's establishment here. I believe it'd give the wizards involved a less "bureaucratic" appearance.
I like the idea of the fighter guardians! Though I know most people prefer to play the character in charge, the most powerful and all around badass warrior/wizard/preacher around.
I for one would gladly play such a character, as I believe it would bring with it some pretty fine RP oppurtunity.
I also believe, however, that a faction such as this is sorely lacking in the DM faction list... Perhaps you should consider persuading the DM's into making it a DM faction instead? That'd bring along with it much more stability and a longevity that no pc faction could ever match, despite loose recruitment requirements.
Quote from: Listen in Silence;109314I also believe, however, that a faction such as this is sorely lacking in the DM faction list... Perhaps you should consider persuading the DM's into making it a DM faction instead? That'd bring along with it much more stability and a longevity that no pc faction could ever match, despite loose recruitment requirements.
I already tried when we had roughly eight or so wizards as members. From what I was told the DM's are a bit worn out on wizard only factions, and weren't interested in creating another. I plead the case that it made perfect sense for such a faction to exist on the island, as it was built by ancient Netherese Wizards and had an active Mythallar... alas... it gained little to no traction.
I'm hoping that if the faction can get enough PC support, and do enough awesome things that it may eventually become a DM faction much like the guard did. However, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Amourae-I like that idea, but it'd be pretty much counter to everything Aldrick has worked toward, so for him it wouldn't be IC. Although, that doesn't mean a wizard interested in understanding how and why people are on the island, and a way to return home could not join the guild and find support there.
If the oath was to any wizard of the guild, rather than to a specific wizard, it would not only be more flexible, but you would end up with some unexpected pairings between PCs who may not necessarily get along with one another. Some of the most fun I ever had was when my Watch PC was forced to cooperate with Spellguard PCs he hated.
On that note, you might consider tying the guild to the Colonial Watch somehow...?
You haven't given any reason why only mages can do this. Bards, sorcerors and clerics are just as qualified, bards even moreso with their lore and leadership skills.
And why would a fighter swear oaths to the typical cranky, arrogant, spindly old mage who is too busy studying his spellbook to do less important things like ever changing his underwear? You've got to offer some incentive there.
As we spoke of, Meldread, The trick is to find a unique niche to fill.
The trouble with the mage guild was always it seemed to be -exactly- like the Society. I'm not sure if that was on purpose or a mistake, but rather than sharing their findings they wanted to hoard them. That seemed like the only difference between the two.
I'm not sure if that was a dynamic you were looking for but from a non-involved perspective that's what it appeared to be.
You'd need to find a distinctive way to separate yourself from it, as well as do something beyond "Just compete with them or wipe them out".
Competing for knowledge with the society is cool, but you need to have something More.
Again RwG is right on the money and happened to be the same thing I struggled with OOC and IC wise. Obviously, anyone who can find, research, and understand many of the hidden secrets of this Island would certainly understand that knowledge is power. This is where I saw the Society and the Magister’s Guild coming to a head. The Society was for the most part…for researching and publishing findings. The Magister’s Guild was for researching and leveraging their insight to obtain what they want.
With the Society closing up shop…I would think that the Magister’s Guild has a wide open lane. I think the Magister’s Guild could include most any classes; however the guild should stay focused on researching, understanding, and protecting the colony. (The more sinister elements within the Guild might be more attuned to manipulating or protecting their findings)
I think this basic outline would rejuvenate the faction and lead to some great fun.
Domare
Make there be associates! That way you'll have minions and more than just wizzies can join the faction.
What could work:
The Magister's Guild
A guild composed of great minds and wizards the Magister's guild is led by Grand Magister Aldrick Tanith. The guild are the finders of the secrets of the ziggurat. They hoard the secrets and protect them with their lives, knowing if it falls into the wrong hands all could die. Some of these secrets though, are manipulated and have hurt their society. In order to understand these, wizards are needed. Even though it is a mages society, they have associates who's goal is to protect the mages.
Definately make it have no class requirements. If you have fighter bodyguards, it seems a lot like the Thayvians, and if you just act evil it seems a lot like the Spellguard, regardless of the subtlties.
The difference between the Society and the Magister Guild was this-
one was awesome, the other was awesomer.
Mercenary troups seem to do quite well in this setting. Perhaps structureing it with a warwizard or mercenary bent, those of the arcane in leadership, but open to all? Just an idea. Or, perhaps the guard could have an arcanist division, like the old watch had for a few months. Another idea, merhaps a mercanitle house, Like Maltasta, that you could get to take on wizards as retainers?
Just a few ideas. I am sure there are an infinite number out there!
I'd think they should act like spellguard and use the secrets they find for EVIL things! AKA: Use a *spoiler* to become the strongest wizard of the ziggurat
Perhaps if they included clerics and/or monks of Mystra and Azuth and also sorcerers the magisters would do so much better. One of the reason my wizard character didn't even bother joining was because they came off as "We're better than you", and "Anyone who doesn't join us is an idiot", just too condescending. If they expanded their character inclusion then they would get far more followers.
And if you allowed clerics of Mystra and Azuth then you'd get healers! Something wizards cannot do. Really, clerics of gods of magic, if done right, can seem to be, act, and be confused for full blow wizards. Take my old character William Snyder for example, everyone thought he was a wizard, even when he was healing them.
I'm starting to like this idea of a revamp. Although my wizard is and has been around since the early days of the Archipelago, he:
1. was never asked IC by anyone to join or discuss benefits of membership
2. From reading the public postings and seeing the "direction" of the guild and its relation to the government, IC he wasn't interested enough to seek out membership - seemed too restrictive and potentially, well, OOCly spellguardlike!
3. There was no NEED to join the guild. He found enough work and adventure on his own and ICly liked that freedom to do what he wanted when he wanted.
With that said, here are some thoughts to add to the pot:
1. There IS a need for a wizard-heavy faction, despite what Aldric sees as lack of DM interest. Just make it a PC faction.
2. Given that my wiz was turned off by the governmental relationship, maybe downplay that aspect. Why would the wizards CARE to associate with the government? If the guild were truly inclusive of all wizards, then the government should be begging for the wizards' help. And besides.... Isn't wizarding more important than governance? The guild should be a force the government should be courting to keep it neutral to friendly, but not try to control it.
3. Membership should be near-forced as it was in the days of old true trade guilds. You could not practice without guild approval or you were, um, "shut down". Now, a good aligned mage would of course have issue with this, but there are ways to shut down noncompliant mages without killing them - feeblemind, curse, etc. They also might choose to play up the positive benefits of membership as well, rather than rely on the heavy handed approach.
4. Having mage-oriented fighters and clerics associated with the guild is a great idea - either as retainers or as devotees of Azuth or Mystra.
5. The guild probably WOULD be somewhat secretive in its workings - through knowledge is power, and power is something wizards need access to to survive given their physical weakness.
6. A united guild would give wizards some real clout. Cheat a wizard? You are now blacklisted and will NEVER receive wizardly help. Want a wizard to accompany your adventure group? Standard rates are a full split of loot plus an additional charge for "buffing". Part of that suggestion is pure business and part is the feeling that wizards get screwed on a lot of quests. "Great, thanks for buffing and collecting, now we're taking all the good loot because we did all the upfront fighting". Seriously - many a quest has seen this exact attitude where the figheter types just start splitting things totally on their own without any consultation!
Thoughts?
I've come up with some potential character archetypes that could form the "core" foundations of the guild.
I whacked my brain trying to figure out how to make a wizard central guild:
A) Not look like a cheap Spellguard clone.
B) Not look like a rehash of the Society.
I hope these archetypes, which are just broad templates, help make it clear that it is something -different-. I'd like feedback and opinions on them. It is not my intention to limit people to what is listed, but rather try and provide a guideline for flavor and ideas.
[SIZE="4"]The Magister's[/SIZE]
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8858/magistersff0.gif)
"In the end who can really protect the people here? They are defenseless against the things that lay hidden upon this island. Do you fear the Nightrisers? Good, they are nothing compared to what lays deeper within these ruins. In the end only we can protect you. It is our duty to learn what others must not, so that we may defend against what others cannot. Netheril was a powerful empire ruled by wizards, and it will take a wizard to correct the legacy of their folly."
Requirements: Wizard, Non-Chaotic
Most Likely Deities: Helm, Azuth or Mystra
The Magister's function as the leaders of the guild, and self-appointed guardians of the colony. They seek to uncover secret and hidden knowledge. They say they do this to protect the colony against hidden dangers, dangers that they are reluctant to talk about. Others say they do this for their own selfish ends, motivated by a desire to build a New Netheril Empire upon the islands. What is clear, however, is that they seek to attract as many as they can to their cause... whatever cause that might be.
A Magister is a wizard bound by an oath to protect the Colony. They work openly to study the ruins, uncover lost artifacts and obtain new knowledge. They rarely share their findings, preferring to keep such knowledge to themselves, or use that knowledge as leverage. Those who seek knowledge from the guild often are required to give something in exchange, typically an oath of loyalty to their cause.
Magister's Oaths: "I vow that I shall serve the Magister's Guild to the best of my abilities.
I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.
I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.
I vow to learn from the mistakes of Netheril and not repeat them.
I vow never to use my magic against a citizen of the colony, except against those who threaten it, in the defense of my life, or the life of another member of the guild or colony.
I vow to speak only what I believe to be true.
I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."
[SIZE="4"]The Warden's[/SIZE]
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9391/magisterwardenqs9.gif)
""Valor is the lifeblood of all Warden's, the force that drives us to deeds of honor and glory. It is the steel in our spines that allows us to face horrors that were born of nightmares made real. Above all things, a warden must be brave, matching his courage not only against his foes but against the task that faces all wardens: defending the Magister's from all harm.""
Requirements: Non-Chaotic, fighter or ranger.
Compatible PrC's: Knight or Weapon Master
Most Likely Deities: Helm, Azuth or Mystra
The Wardens are a group of honorable warriors dedicated to the defense of the colony and the Magister's Guild. They have pledged their loyalty to the Magister's and work to defend them with their lives. While most follow Azuth or Mystra there is no religious requirement to join. Some Helmites, swayed by the Guild's open declaration to defend the colony have also been persuaded into joining.
A Warden lives by a code of conduct, outlined below in the oaths, and is charged with defending the Magister's no matter the cost. Many Wardens seek to become Knights, while others seek to enhance their combat abilities and work to become Weapon Master's. Others just seek a chance to prove themselves as skilled warriors. What ever their reasons, their purpose is clear: no Magister must die on their watch.
Warden's Oaths: "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.
I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.
I vow to defend the Magister's no matter the cost or the price to myself.
I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.
I vow to speak only what I believe to be true.
I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild.
I vow to act with courage and valor.
I vow to avoid causing harm to the colony.
I vow to keep my word to the best of my ability in all dealings."
[SIZE="4"]The Fury[/SIZE]
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/711/magistersorcnp2.gif)
"A violent fire of change and motion, a fury, burns within the blood of many, frozen into stillness as water freezes into ice. If unleashed haphazardly, the fury is wasted and its vessel is broken. But if one is clever, careful, and focused of will, the fury's energy can be harnessed and used to transform the things of the world, just as fire hardens a clay vessel or lightning fuses sand into glass. The Magister's have taught us how to tap into this inner fury, and now we wield it for them."
Requirements: Sorcerer
Most Likely Deities: Any
Sorcerer's are a dangerous group of individuals as many are unable to control their powers. Most wizards view them as little more than savages, yet the Magister's Guild has taken a keen interest in them. Under the mantra of protecting the colony, the guild has begun to recruit Sorcerer's with active talent. They study them and work to help them harness and control their power. There have even been rumors of the Magister's "awakening" latent sorcerous talents in others.
These Sorcerers that serve the Magister's call themselves Furies. Many seem to develop transmutation or destructive powers. Whether this is a result of the Magister's doing or simply an oddity, few can say.
Fury's Oaths: "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.
I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.
I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."
[SIZE="4"]Magister's Fist[/SIZE]
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3447/magistermonkdi4.gif)
"Let them attack us with their magic and their blades. We are like the rock which stretches into the vast sea and which, exposed to the fury of the winds and beaten against the waves, endures all violence. Yet, we shall not merely endure; we shall prevail for we are both strong of body, mind and spirit."
Requirements: Lawful, Monk
Most Likely Deities: Helm, Azuth or Mystra
Much like the Wardens the Magister's Fists are dedicated to protecting the Magister's although that is not their primary task. They are specially trained to withstand arcane magic and to do battle against wizards. They are few in number with most worshiping Azuth. Their mission is to prepare to do battle against the arcane creations of the island, and if necessary their creators as well. Some whisper that these monks also silently and carefully remove rogue wizards that do not pledge loyalty to the Magister's Guild, and who cause problems for them.
Magister's Fist: "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.
I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.
I vow to defend the Magister's no matter the cost or the price to myself.
I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.
I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."
[SIZE="4"]The Archeologist's[/SIZE]
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3204/magisterarchaeologistik8.gif)
"Alright, now listen. At the end of this tunnel there are two trails leading out and to the east. The leftmost looks easiest, but it isn't: it is trapped to the nine hells and back. We have to go the other way instead. Beyond that there is a guardian of some kind, and a bridge that has been destroyed. Don't worry, I found a way off to the north, the tunnels look bad but it should be safe enough for us. Just opposite the bridge is where we need to be. The artifact cannot be far from there... I can feel it."
Requirements: Any
Compatible PrC's: Archaeologist
Most Likely Deities: Any
Dungeon delvers, artifact hunters, scholars, adventurers, scouts and all other types of individuals pledge loyalty to the Magister's Guild for an endless number of reasons. Most, however, do so for the ability to explore the ruins with a trusted and experienced group of individuals. Many wander into the ruins on their own seeking their fortune never to return. Some claim that unknown horrors created by the ancient Netherese grab them. Others whisper that the Magister's Guild kills them for attempting to steal their secrets.
There are some specialist individuals who pledge loyalty to the guild and become professional artifact hunters. They rely upon the expertise of the Magister's Guild to make sense of what they find.
Archeologist's Oaths: "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.
I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.
I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."
Epic, simply epic.
You might want to extend a loose example to the Druids.
Like:
The guardians of the Ziggurat know that they cannot see the entire Isle, and know all its secrets. thus Enters Forest Wanderer, these are people who hold no alleigance to the Guild or Colony, but see the advantages of holding an agreement with the Guild, we provide them with information, in return, they leave us alone.
Or something similar to that.
Professor Death-
I like most of your ideas, and am going to try and include them. Especially 3, 4, 5 and 6.
I'm very impressed, DM faction plz
Quote from: Thomas_Not_very_wise;109376Epic, simply epic.
You just liked the pictures IMO.
Quote from: MisterPAIN;109390You just liked the pictures IMO.
Guilty, yes, yes I did.
There might also be IC reasons why the guild is failing:
Leader is -uncharismatic- in tongue and is a hardcore coward.
Intellectual population doesn't like them.
Savage population doesn't like them.
A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
Friends of A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
No government influence anymore.
Lack of incentives, social or otherwise.
Trying to become a DM faction when being a PC faction with not much anything done to merit it other than having a bunch of PC wizards.
Previous goals being "Being the wizard branch of government and doing the same thing as a DM faction at the same time except not."
That's an awesome faction idea!
I wholeheartedly support it, if it could be made into a DM faction that'd be even better!
I sort of have to agree with Mr. Pain! You can have complex ideas that look cool, but ultimately I am unsure how successful it will be. How many people do you think would be in each segment, really? You'd need 10 people just to have 2 of each, and no PC or DM faction even has 10 people in it. I am also not fond of ideas on requirements in class or deity for PC factions (except for obvious exceptions!) It may be better to just like, have a single group.
Yes, it looks like there are more sections than there are PCs >_> That is probably a problem! I'd say have it a tad more loosely structured.
Ouch. Not even in the faction and I feel that sting. Speaking as a born-again wizard player who is really liking what he sees in Aldrick's attempt here (for the most part), let me throw in where I have no business:
1. The power of a wizard faction is not necessarily in the charisma of its leader. Honestly, my wizard never met Aldrick IG, I just heard the bile spilt across the forums. BUT, a guild is not ABOUT charisma, it's about purpose. The failed factions have often failed because they were based on the leadership of a single PLAYER. I say player here because there are often many characters who IC are perfect for leadership but whose players don't have the time to devote IG to it. Any faction centered around some core ideals or "rules" would have a much better time surviving the untimely death of a leader type. I think that's a secret to the success of DM factions - the constance of the DM presence gives them that quality that allows them to endure the death of a leader. PC factions will be doomed to short life if they continue to rely on a single player's character. Side note: any examples of someone whose main faction leader PC died and then they made a different character and rejoined the faction to rise to its leadership to keep it going?
2. As to being a coward, I'm not sure what went down there either - challenges to duels maybe? I wouldn't accept one either as a wizard most likely. You're too easy to "take out". No, the power of the guild is in NOT stooping to such levels, it's about bringing the full fury of the membership down on those who would oppose it (speak softly but carry a big stick - as a group).
3. Cannot comment on the "intellectuals and society dislikes" Not enough info to even conjecture.
4. See my above post for more on government. To hell with government influence and politics. If the guild gets established, the influence will be there because the mages will act as a block. Hell hath no fury like half a dozen mages fireballing you at once while their earth elementals run interference for them and a few walls of fire separate you from them too!
5. As to lack of incentives, here are a few:
Networking of spells and scrolls to flesh out spellbooks, sharing of magic items among those who need them (oh, you're a newbie member? Here, take these 10 wands of sleep and acid splash - I've got no use for them anymore!), loaning of "uberitems" to those in need, price and inventory controls on potions and wands, sharing of information for things like alchemy and herbalism, mutual defense, cool RP opportunities, wiz vs. wiz PvP against rogue types (for those that like thta sort of thing), political power as a member of "the" wizard group, increased wealth (if my idea on charging an extra "fee" to quest and buff is taken into account, getting to learn and explore cool secrets of the isle, etc. Sounds like quite a bit off the top of my head!
It sounds like the original magister guild is for all intents, dead, though. A serious revamp is in order and Aldrick has put a lot into it. Give him some credit for trying to do something cool and different. He's said himself he doesn't want to make it look like sunshine spellguard. New things sometimes take some tweaking to get right, like a character build :)
Quote from: MisterPAIN;109398There might also be IC reasons why the guild is failing:
Leader is -uncharismatic- in tongue and is a hardcore coward.
Intellectual population doesn't like them.
Savage population doesn't like them.
A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
Friends of A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
No government influence anymore.
Lack of incentives, social or otherwise.
Trying to become a DM faction when being a PC faction with not much anything done to merit it other than having a bunch of PC wizards.
Previous goals being "Being the wizard branch of government and doing the same thing as a DM faction at the same time except not."
Sorry, I wasn't clear.
They weren't designed to be sections per-say. More like archetypes of certain types of characters that could fit into the guild. To generate ideas.
It was me kinda brainstorming. I am trying to create something that doesn't feel like Spellguard v2 and doesn't feel like Society reborn. Something that is built around a unifying theme.
I threw the above out there to stimulate the collective minds of folks here. So people get an idea of what it -could- look like, not what it -will- look like. (Although, admittedly, if it could look like that I think it would be awesome. But as a PC faction we just won't have enough people.)
Here is most likely how it would work, in practice.
You have the obvious core of the guild, the Magister's. Magister's begin recruitment. We then begin working out where your PC best fits. It might be in the groups above, or it might be something completely different!
They were meant to be examples, idea creators. I know people look at the Magister's Guild and the first thing they think is Spellguard, and then probably the Society. The above are ideas that break the mold of what has been done before.
Divine Champion of Azuth? Cleric of Azuth / Mystra who wishes to see the Magister's Guild take over the island? Merchant of Waukeen interested in helping see the Magister's guild succeed in the stability they seek to provide, as a stable society can begin to conduct trade. An assassin / bounty hunter dedicated to hunting down rogue wizards and intimidating them into joining the guild, etc.
Really, the possibilities are huge. I am just trying to expand the collective mindset. >_>
Archetypes for guild members, not Sub-Sections.
As a side note, I should point out that when I created Aldrick I had no real intention of creating the Magister's Guild. Aldrick's intentions were to covertly take over the Mage's Guild from within and control it vicariously through its leaders. He never wanted a public face.
However, IC events and actions of others forced him into the role, and when he saw the opportunity put before him he claimed it. Thus, the Magister's Guild was born.
The original Magister's Guild was just to be a collection of wizards. A fraternity like the old Mage's Guild. However, after Aldrick joined the Society and he began to learn things... the Magister's Guild began to take on a purpose. Internally, there have been several shifts in philosophy and stuff like that. It's had an identity crisis since day one.
It suffered ICly (and OOCly too for some people) as being viewed as a sub-group within the Society rather than its own separate entity. This indirectly led to events involving the collapse of the Society. (Although, really, those events were outside of Aldrick's control. It would have taken place with or without him.)
With the Society gone, and the government all but inactive as the DM's rework it... it left the Magister's Guild on a limb. It's two biggest faction supporters were gone, it was forced to rely upon itself, and it could not sustain itself... thus it slowly faded.
This is an attempt to revamp the faction to be more independent. If it were to remain a single class faction, especially a class that requires other classes to be successful, it would be forever crippled and dependent upon others, never having the ability to rise on its own. In essence, the guild has been a coat tail faction, riding on the coat tails of the government and then on the Society.
Quote from: Aldrick Tanith;109312* The Archaeologist should make sense for this guild, and be the primary place such PrC's would want to join.
Used to be another place for that, too! Wonder what happened to it...
Quote from: Professor Death;109406Ouch. Not even in the faction and I feel that sting. Speaking as a born-again wizard player who is really liking what he sees in Aldrick's attempt here (for the most part), let me throw in where I have no business:
1. The power of a wizard faction is not necessarily in the charisma of its leader. Honestly, my wizard never met Aldrick IG, I just heard the bile spilt across the forums. BUT, a guild is not ABOUT charisma, it's about purpose. The failed factions have often failed because they were based on the leadership of a single PLAYER. I say player here because there are often many characters who IC are perfect for leadership but whose players don't have the time to devote IG to it. Any faction centered around some core ideals or "rules" would have a much better time surviving the untimely death of a leader type. I think that's a secret to the success of DM factions - the constance of the DM presence gives them that quality that allows them to endure the death of a leader. PC factions will be doomed to short life if they continue to rely on a single player's character. Side note: any examples of someone whose main faction leader PC died and then they made a different character and rejoined the faction to rise to its leadership to keep it going?
2. As to being a coward, I'm not sure what went down there either - challenges to duels maybe? I wouldn't accept one either as a wizard most likely. You're too easy to "take out". No, the power of the guild is in NOT stooping to such levels, it's about bringing the full fury of the membership down on those who would oppose it (speak softly but carry a big stick - as a group).
3. Cannot comment on the "intellectuals and society dislikes" Not enough info to even conjecture.
4. See my above post for more on government. To hell with government influence and politics. If the guild gets established, the influence will be there because the mages will act as a block. Hell hath no fury like half a dozen mages fireballing you at once while their earth elementals run interference for them and a few walls of fire separate you from them too!
5. As to lack of incentives, here are a few:
Networking of spells and scrolls to flesh out spellbooks, sharing of magic items among those who need them (oh, you're a newbie member? Here, take these 10 wands of sleep and acid splash - I've got no use for them anymore!), loaning of "uberitems" to those in need, price and inventory controls on potions and wands, sharing of information for things like alchemy and herbalism, mutual defense, cool RP opportunities, wiz vs. wiz PvP against rogue types (for those that like thta sort of thing), political power as a member of "the" wizard group, increased wealth (if my idea on charging an extra "fee" to quest and buff is taken into account, getting to learn and explore cool secrets of the isle, etc. Sounds like quite a bit off the top of my head!
It sounds like the original magister guild is for all intents, dead, though. A serious revamp is in order and Aldrick has put a lot into it. Give him some credit for trying to do something cool and different. He's said himself he doesn't want to make it look like sunshine spellguard. New things sometimes take some tweaking to get right, like a character build :)
1. A leader still must still appoint the said purposes, and spin everything happening neat into what translates as motivation for the group. A leader must also be able to get the group to do something cool without relying on DM power. And in order for a leader to lead he must be present, a leader that doesn't actively lead (in both IG and forums) is not regardless of charisma. I think it is quite possible to lead with the forums, and would have done so when I took a break had I not had our somewhat OOC ethic of being happening IG all the time. They also have to have an image that appeals to the masses, no one is going to join if everyone hates you and what you do.
2. Gaeseric the Unyielding pretty much announced Aldrick Tanith's cowardice to the public, can't really help you there when he kind of had 8 Colonial Guards potion-buffing thems with stoneskin, blur, and whatnot on himself when he arrested an old woman in front of a certain halfling with a stick for a weapon. >_>
3. See above.
4. A bunch of wizards looking for a fight seems like a piggybank waiting to be broken by a bunch of random anything that can melee and knockdown.
5. That stuff usually happens regardless of a actual faction, my own character Cania Melve would have never gotten so many spells and became a bit of a guru (even to Spellguard Agents) without this fact in action. In fact I'd say Jawl Highland would be the less grim (obviously not having the baggage of living in lower for years) post-EFU-apocalyptic version of her and they are remarkably similar save for differences in bravery, style of play, stealth, and bowmanship. Just replace affections for Stargazers with affections for elves.
Quote from: lovethesuit;109428Used to be another place for that, too! Wonder what happened to it...
Yeeeaaaaaah...
Quote from: Aldrick Tanith;109427This is an attempt to revamp the faction to be more independent. If it were to remain a single class faction, especially a class that requires other classes to be successful, it would be forever crippled and dependent upon others, never having the ability to rise on its own. In essence, the guild has been a coat tail faction, riding on the coat tails of the government and then on the Society.
As you know, there was a early similar attempt with a side character of mine. I might shelf "El Badgerio" should you wish this character to actually do some stuff that the DMs might just go for. I'm not going to be very active, but this is no worry as I will certainly be active in the forums and am willing to attempt to get the DMs on board which I might have a pretty cool idea for. Only my character can kind of do this though, my awesome CHA wizard. PM if you are interested, I will give you the details, AT.
I still think the Magister’s Guild is an awesome idea and player faction. Obviously, it could use a bit of tweaking, but keep in mind just about every faction (except maybe the Armada) is struggling with PC attendance. With the collapse of the government and the volatility of the colony, it might be wise for the Magister’s Guild to completely break off from the city’s politics and logistical support. Perhaps occupying a cave, abandoned tower, or hideout somewhere might be more conducive for a having a stable environment to achieve their main goal…researching and understanding the hidden secrets of the island.
The main objective/purpose of the guild should be broadly to research and gain understanding of the hidden secrets of the island. Because only highly educated and committed individuals are capable of researching this very dangerous historic lore without jeopardizing everyone around. By doing this…it will give a bit of flexibility to the PC’s. Good PC’s might use their understanding of the secrets to help others, evil PC’s will use it to better themselves or right past wrongs. For any player faction to be successful…it needs a few active characters to keep plots moving.
Finally, I would think that for any player faction to be fun and exciting…then it needs profound adversaries. These adversaries would come from a dynamic player base.
Again…Aldrick, I think you did an awesome job with this faction.
I'm sensing some bitterness over the collapse of the Society due to IC events. >_>
Just know, ending the Society wasn't my idea, and if I had the power I would have kept it around. Aldrick did numerous things as Grand Magister to protect the Society (like keeping Ortred in the dark about Tyrell being an escaped slave). If Aldrick would have had it his way, the Society would have remained alive and active, but it wasn't my decision OOC or IC.
"Yet from the start, I decided it would be a faction with a limited lifespan. It's important to me that such plots end with a bang, while leaving room to continue the plot in a different vein for the future. As the Society faction was extraordinarily time-consuming to maintain, I was afraid that in my absence it would quickly fall downhill and no longer be the faction we know today. As I will be taking the next five months off for school, now was an opportune time to end." - Sternhund (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24297)
So yeah, I didn't come at you guys with OOC maliciousness or anything. You do not know what happened ICly, and it'd be too spoilerish for me to go into all the details, but suffice it to say Aldrick really had little choice in the matter.
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As to the other points.
1. Aldrick is indeed cowardly. He avoids violent conflict when he can. That is not a mistake or a lack of charisma. He's just not stupid. He's going to duel Gaeseric to the death? Yeah, right. He's seen him in battle several times. That is not how Aldrick solves conflicts, I do not think that makes him a bad leader - it makes him a leader that outlives risk takers like Ortred. :p
2. Aldrick has just over nine days total logged IG since character creation, 251 hours total, that is almost 3 hours logged IG each day. I do a lot of forum stuff, it's true, but Aldrick is involved in other active factions and has a lot of management. If you count the hours I spent on forum plus the time I spent IG that could easy come out to 5 hours per day since character creation. That is an insane amount of time. You may not have seen me much after the Society collapsed, but that was because the Magister's Guild also lost several of its members making it a largely inactive faction. On top of that the goverment completely shut down without Ortred. The other factions I was involved in did not require my presence IG constantly like the guild did. Thus, I began to better manage my time, logging in only when requested or needed. I still have a life outside of EfU.
The other points are mostly FIOG.
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So, yeah. I'd like to get back to the original intention of the thread. >_>
I'd like to augment Aldrick's first point. The Society ended on my prerogative for many reasons. Among them was the importance, to me, that plots end on a high note, rather than simmer down until we decide to end them. There were lots of other OOC reasons, but whatever the case, the faction would have ended. Yet I'm glad to see the Society has left a legacy.
Meldread puts a lot of heart into his work and always seeks to raise a standard. If you're interested in a player faction, augmenting this one would be worthy of your consideration.
Best of luck.
Bitterness? Nobody blames you for the Society ending. I am teasing you because right after the group of Archaeologists disappear, the Archaeologist PrC pops up. I thought the time was hilarious. Don't be so sensitive or I'll give you an indian rope burn. I have a racial proficiency.
One thing that should be done: There needs to be a new name. If it is just a magister guild then it would only have magisters. IF it were named something else, it would involve other places in it.
The Brotherhood of Magic?
Quote from: Aldrick Tanith;109445I'm sensing some bitterness over the collapse of the Society due to IC events. >_>
Just know, ending the Society wasn't my idea, and if I had the power I would have kept it around. Aldrick did numerous things as Grand Magister to protect the Society (like keeping Ortred in the dark about Tyrell being an escaped slave). If Aldrick would have had it his way, the Society would have remained alive and active, but it wasn't my decision OOC or IC.
Technically, he could have at least put forth an effort to appeal to the Society Members post-ownage or at least having an alternate way of destroying the Society without completely alienating the ex-members. I'd think a PC would be be bitter that the government owned his own ambitions, maybe?
The Librarians
There is a imaginary society with many movies of guys called the Librarians.
this thread is now about preston_hunt
You have an Archeologist that looks like Angelina Jolie, I want to join!