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QuotePC Plots are a lot less common these days, and there are a small few players that still go out of their way to give things for other players to do. The real problem with EFU these days, is not enough players are taking an active role in the server. Most poeple are just waiting for something cool to roll around they can relate to or jump on board with.
I concur!
Personally I fail to contribute secondary to me dropping characters quickly, usually after some lame non-pvp associated death in the wilds or on a quest. I state this because I think others do the same thing, and may gain some benefit from what others have done to get past it.
The questions I would pose for an open discussion are:
What can we as players do to change this and improve interaction and pc plots?
Make more unusual chars and play to their builds and personalities. Get some attention.
My current char, Bishop is a Str rogue with heavy armor, made as a highly skilled mercenary strategist as opposed to a sneak. I wanted to build something very different to the usual Rogue, and it's a versatile class. I've been trying to use him to coordinate parties more, give quests more direction than "silently pwn mobs".
There are a lot of fairly standard ways to play a PC, but the unusual ones stick out and give you different options. Try a 8 str, 18 WIS priest of Eldath who refuses to raise a hand to anything. A conjuration specialist "minion master" Wizard or Cleric. A fat female elf, a halfling barbarian, a bard with max tumble who RPs bardic music as interpretive dance...
Characters almost totally opposed to the normal expectations of a class or race are fun and can involve others with "how did you end up like that?"
Set up an alchemical research lab, and "accidentally" explode it.
Play a character who is utterly convinced that what the world REALLY needs is Beer Golems, or that Dual-wield Bastard Sword-jutsu is the combat style of the future, and people Must Be Trained.
Start a bar, a brothel, a hospital, a seedy underground Summoned Creature Pit Fighting Club. Something that a variety of PCs could get in on.
That's a few ideas.
I'll throw in an idea, and an old favorite: insist that what the guard really needs are really mini mini-skirts.
Take it a step further... don't limit it to women. >_>
I made a ranged fighter... then he died... repeatedly... on the orc quest... due to a bug...
Does that count?
No, I agree, this needs to change. There are a lot of good factions, but I don't see very many poeple taking active roles in the server. I know for sure that I don't, because I'm not a stable enough player to do so. However, I'd love to see more of it!!
Beer Golems!
You know, I think a lot of PC plots are squelched because there's a very peculiar feeling of vulnerability on EfUA as compared to EfU.
People stood up against each other ALL the time on EfU:
-Upper vs Lower
-Spellguard vs Seekers
-Lower Thugs wanting freedom vs Lower Domination-types/Uppersmen
-Upper Goody-Goodies vs Upper Evil types
On EfUA, these clear distinctions are, well, not so clear! Things are very muddled right now. How could this change?
The one very clear step is open rebellion. Right now, people don't see much influence by the government, Old Port, Sharboneth, etc. If the DMs nudged this a little, maybe an Old Port merchant stopping by the Colony with a slave train in tow behind him, people might be roused into action.
Let's take it a step further. Why can't this merchant be an application PC? For the most part, PCs in this new world of ours are underwhelming and not influential, barring a few extreme examples like Ortred, de Olid, and maybe Tanith or Symme. I'm definately not saying that these people being so influential is bad, no, quite the contrary, it's great! But notice, they're all (for the most part) on the same "side"-- the mostly lawful, mostly evilish corner. The Spellguard were great, but that's because there was an equally great opposition (in it's own unique way!) that wasn't hopelessly overwhelmed by the shadows of Serena Tower.
Some implementation ideas?
Make the Seekers open to PCs again, and visible. We can branch away from them in time in an effort to make EfUA "newer" as it should be, but they would (and for our story, really SHOULD) be fighting much harder than they are against the Sharboneth and Old Port faction.
With the opening of the Seekers, open Sharboneth too to PC characters.
One thing I do kinda like is that Sharboneth is NOT the Colonial Guard. Just me, maybe.
I also think being less "pidgeon holed" into NEEDING the support of Old Port to survive is helpful to relieving this. This is highly debatable, though.
That is the conclusion of my scatterbrained effort of thinking about this weird problem. Although I focused on the Sharboneth vs Seeker idea, the point I hope to have made is that there aren't clearly defined groups right now, or ideologies, for PCs to just fall into. Except the pro-Necromancy peoples and the anti-Necro folks, I suppose...
I like cunningplan's thoughts too, btw. Doesn't really address this on a server-wide vision level though, which is what I think Beggar is talking about.
I think Garem's muddled post was sufficiently on target that I'll second what he said.
It might be nice if there was some more DM support for PC plots, as well! It does not need to be amazing perks, but even an enterprising Old Port merchant who DMs use to make uniforms for PC factions that the DMs feel will not just fizzle, at a price. Or even just XP and kudos, or a tiny thing that shows that someone thinks it is cool. Most plots seem to fade because interest in them fades, and if someone is honestly trying to do something cool, it should be rewarded.
All this and MORE is in the work. Just that it is fairly ambitious and requires a lot of time to implement.
But I want to do it right at my own pace and not deliver an half-done product this time.
Power is for people.
Word. Mort and the rest of you guys, I love you, oh baby, oh baby.
[maons]
Quote from: Mort;109854But I want to do it right at my own pace and not deliver an half-done product this time.
This inspires much confidence in me.
i think in old sanctuary place it was all like, the four main dm factions had pretty obvious reasons to hate and/or like each other, but everything here is like sup
Just posting to register my disapproval of the idea that unusual builds is in any way relating to "PC Plot and Activity."
Perhaps it'd be constructive to consider what a PC plot might be.
Some possible examples just off the top of my head of the sort of things that players could independently work on for a while before needing DMs -
- Establishing a society devoted towards (1) caring for the unfortunate victims of the Ziggurat, and (2) disabling the mysterious teleportation aspect of the Ziggurat as it has ruined the lives of so many
- Establishing a band of bandits and highway-men that tax and steal from lone travelers, with the hope of using these funds to start an insurrection against House Sharboneth
- Offering treasure for trophies from particularly rare beasts
- Founding an adventuring guild to organize and adventurers and put in practice certain rules and regulations
- Duelists Tournaments, Controling all crime, rivalries between PCs, etc. etc. etc.
We certainly do have plans to encourage additional Player Plottage, though, to be sure!
All of this is separate from some of the other points touched on in the thread relating to the political position of the Colony and design of NPC factions, which maybe could be discussed in a separate thread.
Beer golems aside,in all honesty, I see lots of PC related plots and the DM's seem to be taking notice as well, throwing a hook here and there, to keep things interesting. Granted, with the new setting, it will take awhile for the faction rivalry's to take hold. In the mean time it is up to us, the PC's to make something happen.
Just my two cents.
I find it personally offensive to say that there are no PC driven plots occurring. I work very hard, and I guarantee what I am doing should piss off a good deal of players, particularly druids. I'm sorry that you haven't noticed, but druids should be against my plans.
Every step of my goal has been publicly displayed for the pure reason that other players may at some point resist me.
I am hoping that PC druids have the balls to go against me, but so far that isn't happening. Please don't use this thread to suddenly decide Belm is against the balance, but keep your eyes open. Shit -IS- happening, and I won't stop until I meet my goal or die.
It's not ideas that are missing. It's making other people subscribe to them.
We all have ideas of plots. They can be server wide, or just local stuff. The problem is, not everyone (player or pc) is a leader. Nor is every idea so great that it will gather crowds. Not every player can play regularly to see his plot stay attractive.
The real question is how to have other people WANT to join your group.
For example:
Joe asks my warrior pc if he wants to join his merc company. I ask: what for?
He says: so we can quest and gather loot. Duh.
Joe asks: let's care for the children of he Zig. I say: sure, that's a noble cause. How do we do that? So we gather food and put it at the feet of the beggars. Then we get bored. So we go 'fundraising', meaning we start to quest again.
Joe asks: let's start a rebellion. We'll put a camp in the forest. So we head out. Those of us who are not killed by the spawns arrive at some place. How do we make a camp? Duh, put our spawn point there. So we do. Then we wait for people to pass by to mug them. Duh. No one's logged on today, and even if they are, they stick to the Zig or run to npcs at the first sign of trouble.
Joe asks: let's gather ore for the colony needs. So we go to the moutains, get ore, come back. The ore goes to the guild, not to our faction, and we can gather as much as we like, we won't build anything unless dm pops up. Make ressource gathering mesurable by player group, that might help.
Joe asks: let's organize tournaments. So we spar, using all our healing. Then the tournament starts. 6 people show up, and the higher lvl wins again. Jim the spellcaster wanted to participate, but he doesn't have time to rest again. Jack the rogue would like to participate as well, but without wasting a wand that'll save his life in real quest. So why bother?
Joe asks: let's be rpers and organize a new government. Then mr bad guys smashes your non-powerbuild while your buddies aren't logged on, and down goes another idea.
For the record, i've even other issue: i play so much, i got bored of waiting on others and go on with something else.
Another issue is how to have a PC faction survive it's leader's death?
And so on...
The point is: if your idea is not worthwhile for pcs involved, it's dying already. You can't expect dm attention all the time, so unless there's a scripted way to make involving others materially rewarding (xp, loot, real estate, fame, political influence, etc.), you'll have to wait till great players or dms figure some great plot.
And the main way to rewardingly-involve others will be to send for trogs, harpies, and whatnot.
My usual two cents.
Another valid question to ask is:
What is interesting to you as a player and what makes you give an effort for the group?
My advice is to try getting along with a group and make it well. It may not be interesting at first but then again, it may develop into something highly amazing.
I think PC plots flourish the most when the PC's involved in them have tons of time to be IG. The more time you spend in game, the more you can get done.
I like to think my characters are always pushing PC plots ahead and in fact my current one is working toward the rebellion-esque suggestions some people had. I know that it won't go very far though until someone with more time on their hands also takes up the mantle. As much as I'd like to do, anything less then 10 hours a week or so IG (and lately more like 5/wk for me), just isn't going to get it done.
So take that as a challenge to those of you with more time. You are the ones that can really make a difference. From Ortred to Collier and Pyatt Pree, when those dudes were in their "prime" you could almost always count on them to be logged in and up to something.
For DM's listening, I think you could help do more by literally paying (through some means) the players who are on often and trying to be leaders. Nothing encourages people more then the offer of pay and when you have PC's that can reward the efforts of others, then you don't have to do it yourselves. Of course, the trick is to find players who won't just spend said gold on themselves i.e. the EFU:A equivalent of corporate greed on wall street.
Players could help more by literally paying (WITH BENJAMINS) the DMs who are on often.
Mort/Dan/Sec/Nick/Metro
imo
Quote from: PanamaLane;109988For DM's listening, I think you could help do more by literally paying (through some means) the players who are on often and trying to be leaders.
I've said it before, that which gets rewarded gets repeated. A little bit of "RP EXP Fairy" would go a long way. I've seen four distinct types of DM Experience awards from whatever wands you guys have, you really ought to use those more often.
Quote from: 9lives;110020Players could help more by literally paying (WITH BENJAMINS) the DMs who are on often.
I was looking in to this for a server concept of my own, and even at minimum wage it is prohibitively expensive to pay DMs unless you're wealthy enough to finance it out of your own pocket and don't mind losing money. There is no way to keep up with labor costs with donations alone.
I'd be happy to "tip the DM" from time to time if they want to set up individual PayPal accounts, but any substantial amount of spare money I get in the near future is going to the server first.
For those who are not in the know, here is a link to donations:
http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1558
I am very poor like the rest of you sods, but still its good to toss what you can to them from time to time. Even just $20 a year from all the base could go a long way (though more will go further!).
I've heard that Obama actually began his grassroots strategy in Howland's living room. See he does pal around with terrorists!
I was kidding!
Any donations you do make, which are vastly appreciated, do obviously go back into the running of the server - Which is mostly provided for by the intensely generous Tom Howland, and the donation of parts and dollars by you guys.
Iv'e found a few plots to get in on, but sadly, Iv'e found it's hard to join in if you try to do so late.
Best get in on it early, whatever the plot may be, and yes, there are plenty of plots going on, Iv'e only been playing a couple of weeks and that's been very apparent. I hate it when nobody joins in on a plot until it seems to have DM backing and is getting phat golds and lootz. It's really more enjoyable to help start the danged thing.
Though, it would be nice if players could let everyone in on their plot, regardless of level... especially if they want to get in on it.