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Main Forums => Suggestions => Topic started by: Talir on February 10, 2009, 08:50:01 PM

Title: Reduce paralysis duration of Death Attack
Post by: Talir on February 10, 2009, 08:50:01 PM
I have been unable to find any mechanic changes for Death Attack. From this I will have to assume that the paralysis for the death attack has been unchanged and the duration is then 1 turn each assassin level. This is fatal to any characters being hit and paralyzed unless companions are there to save them immediately. Could this duration be reduced to allow the possibility of escaping from the clutches of certain death, to a more moderate duration on the lines of X rounds/assassin level? This will still make the assassin retain the fearsome death attack, but allow the slim possibility of PCs surviving from NPC death attacks and not having them stand there for a few minutes before being able to move.
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Post by: ExileStrife on February 10, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
Death Attack is the only good thing about the Assassin PrC.  I think it honestly needs the duration for it to be significant.

For what it's worth, I think the paralysis is 1 hour per level already.  THAT might be too long honestly, but round/level is way too short.
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Post by: Talir on February 10, 2009, 09:42:45 PM
I wholeheartedly agree that 1 round/assassin level is way too short for a circumspect feat like this. I was thinking more along the lines of 5 rounds/level, halving the (current?) time a PC is rendered unmoveable. An hour/level is too much though, the way I see it.
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Post by: Pup on February 10, 2009, 09:45:13 PM
It's called "Death Attack".
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Post by: Caddies on February 10, 2009, 10:47:02 PM
Its turn/level at the moment, which I think is fine.
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Post by: Efu_Executioner on February 10, 2009, 10:51:55 PM
It has a fortitude save as well, which is surely lower then a good mages DCs that would use fortitude (Bewilderment, Gust of Wind)
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Post by: PanamaLane on February 10, 2009, 10:53:13 PM
Turn/lvl is too long. I mean 5 minutes is far longer then it should take even the worst PvPer to kill someone. At level two, you could death attack him, take a dainty stroll around the block, smoke a cig, and come back 7 minutes later with plenty of time left to do the deed.

I like 5 rounds/lvl
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Post by: The Beggar on February 10, 2009, 11:02:48 PM
QuoteIts turn/level at the moment, which I think is fine.

See above for my vote.
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Post by: Efu_Executioner on February 10, 2009, 11:04:41 PM
For death attack to even get the paralyze save, the target has to be unengaged in combat.
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Post by: ScottyB on February 10, 2009, 11:06:14 PM
Not that there's anything we could do about this anyways, seeing as its activation is automatic (not by selection).
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Post by: Underbard on February 11, 2009, 12:00:03 AM
When you are done with the cigarette, you can put it out in their eye and then finish them off.  I think it should stay as is.
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Post by: Talir on February 11, 2009, 12:14:04 AM
I believe I should consider the suggestion beaten. Just go easy with the assassin NPCs, there's no fun in having to wait between three and five minutes before you are able to move again.
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Post by: Nihm on February 11, 2009, 01:49:31 AM
If it is possible to alter or replace death attack, it should be.  This lame and buggy ability is supposed to work only on someone who isn't in combat mode, but it often happens that it hits even when PCs are in combat against the assassin.  This happened to me three times in a row on the great orc battle finale, had my character not had a high fortitude save I would've been stuck with the fun prospect of having been paralyzed by a Shargaas disciple I was actually swinging at, with a duration so endless it might as well have been instant death.
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Post by: I can has fun? on February 11, 2009, 05:08:26 AM
Outside of what Nihm is talking about, which is alarming if it is a widespread problem, I think it should be left as it is. I have -never- heard of this feat being abused by PCs on EfU. NPCs, yes. My opinions on the goblin assassins are known. But for PCs, it ought to stay like it is. The long duration allows for some conversation before you kill someone.
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Post by: derfo on February 11, 2009, 05:35:21 AM
i think death attack should be changed into deaf attack and any inflicted paralysis should be deafness of the same duration

also i love to converse before being assassinated, which would not be possible with deafness
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Post by: Howlando on February 11, 2009, 05:49:39 AM
Let's go over a few basics first, since despite NWN being seven'ish years old people still get confused.

Round is six seconds.

Turn is one minute.

Hour is module dependent. In EFU, it was 5 minutes. In EFU:A, it is like 27 minutes or something so we have reasonable day/night cycles. However, we changed the duration of (hopefully all) hour-based duration spells and abilities to just be 5 turns (or 5 minutes).

So hopefully death attack paralysis is 5 minutes per assassin level, which it appears to be judging from the comments in this thread.

Anyway, I'm inclined to agree that 5 minutes is a bit much, and 2 turns/level would be more reasonable, since it can be a bit tedious otherwise (for NPCs).

I think it's perfectly fine and flavorful that we have some NPCs who have this ability, although I agree we don't want it to be too common.

Any demonstrated cases of death attack paralysis firing inappropriately should be documented and reported on the bug reports forum, if it has happened I have never seen it.
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Post by: Caddies on February 11, 2009, 07:06:17 AM
I may be wrong, but I am sure the duration of Death Attack paralysis is one turn/assassin level. So one minute IRL/level, which I think is perfect.

As for Death Attack firing when you're in combat, I'd wager that would simply be due to the fact that an assassin's sneak attack is always shown as a 'Death Attack', irregardless of whether a fort save is made against the paralysis (which only occurs if you're not in combat). I have never ever seen a proper Death Attack occur when the target has been in combat. Are you sure you actually made saves in the combat window against the Death Attack DC, Nihm?
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Post by: Sandstorm on February 11, 2009, 07:29:57 AM
Death Attack is the first attack made by an assassin on a flat footed enemy, I think! I am unsure if it matters whether or not the other person is in combat or not, as opposed to fighting -you- or not. Everything else is sneak attack.
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Post by: AKMatt on February 11, 2009, 08:05:29 AM
Turn/level, which is the standard duration, seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Even if a character only has 1 assassin level, that gives them 10 attacks minimum, which should be enough for most PC assassinations.  The assassin might even have a haste potion, which would leave a pretty slim chance of any victim of a death attack surviving.
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Post by: CunningPlan on February 11, 2009, 11:05:47 AM
I'd actually say stick it at 1 Minute/Turn full stop. Enough time to kill someone, not so long that a gob assassin or counterattacked PC assassin still leaves people standing around for ridiculous time lengths.
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Post by: I can has fun? on February 11, 2009, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: Caddies;109905As for Death Attack firing when you're in combat, I'd wager that would simply be due to the fact that an assassin's sneak attack is always shown as a 'Death Attack', irregardless of whether a fort save is made against the paralysis (which only occurs if you're not in combat).

A winner is you.
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Post by: Talir on February 11, 2009, 01:31:38 PM
I believe the save is done for something else than paralysis. A recent run in with a Shargass Disciple made me roll a fortitude save, but when I failed it I was not paralyzed (another effect happened though).
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Post by: tooh on February 11, 2009, 02:09:02 PM
At nwn wiki, death attack is 1 turn by assassin level, paralysis is prone, so victim loses Dex AC and attacker gains +4 AB.
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Post by: Letsplayforfun on February 11, 2009, 05:35:55 PM
I had no idea what death attack was. I thought it was something like "save or die" useable n times/a day by assassins, and i thought it was cool...
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Post by: ScottyB on February 11, 2009, 06:49:59 PM
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack#Notes

Turn/level.

Also, it is hardcoded, there is nothing we can do to change how death attack works!
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Post by: PanamaLane on February 11, 2009, 07:11:41 PM
ok, turn/lvl is actually reasonable, sorry I equated the 5mins/turn. I was thinking hour/lvl.

On thing is this though, with death attack even as it stands now, it's essentially a save or die without the instant death. What's the point of waiting around? I guess the only thing it offers is that if you are with a body guard, perhaps he/she could save you.

I guess it just feels a little overpowered to me.
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Post by: CunningPlan on February 11, 2009, 07:54:29 PM
Since it can't be altered, what I would suggest is a proliferation of no-restriction Remove Paralysis gear, so that the best defence is an ally who can trigger off one of those. Stuff that should drop in the quest level ranges with assassin NPCs.
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Post by: Nihm on February 11, 2009, 07:56:37 PM
Quotean assassin's sneak attack is always shown as a 'Death Attack', irregardless of whether a fort save is made against the paralysis

This could have been the case, yes, as the combat log was too full to find the saves with a log filled with 40ish things all making combat rolls.
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Post by: Howlando on February 11, 2009, 10:12:27 PM
I humbly eat crow. I was mistaken about the duration, I thought it was hour/level - I swear it must have been that once, or something.

I think the Shargaas Disciple has some kind of level drain effect on its spear, which is also a fortitude save, which may also be causing confusion.
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Post by: Thomas_Not_very_wise on February 11, 2009, 10:23:03 PM
It's a Constitution Drain.
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Post by: lovethesuit on February 12, 2009, 06:44:52 AM
Turn/level is fine compared to the PnP version where you can just outright kill somebody.
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Post by: derfo on February 12, 2009, 11:36:52 AM
also the dc is fairly easy at 10 + ass level + int modifier anyways
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Post by: ScottyB on February 12, 2009, 05:59:20 PM
God, why are we still talking about this?