Not being able to see who/what level is IG is an amazing anti-meta gaming tool, but I really think its stopping new players from logging on as they can't see the average level-range, what names are used, races or even if there are DMs IG.
I don't think most people get familiar with EFUSL right from the start (I know I didn't), and the inability to see players IG will probably deter somebody, who's browsing the server list, from logging on and trying the server. It also stops new players from easily seeing if their friends are online.
I am in agreement, while it was also a good idea I think it also causes players to send tells asking for the class and levels of your PC, and at the meantime it may cause high level characters to pick on the lower level characters in PvP situations, unknowingly.
Yar. Um. Yes.
In all seriousness I'm in agreement.
Quote from: Wern8;110738I am in agreement, while it was also a good idea I think it also causes players to send tells asking for the class and levels of your PC, and at the meantime it may cause high level characters to pick on the lower level characters in PvP situations, unknowingly.
This is very true.
I agree with the others on this matter. Additionally, it is really nice just to see who is on real quick. Might just be me, but I much rather just go there to see who is on then go to efusl or logging in to see who is on.
Assuming you know where it is, it's infinitely easier to use EFUSL to see who is online.
I'm in agreement, it harms more then it does good.
I can understand why this might be unpopular, but I am skeptical about the reasons as proposed.
The number of players is clearly visible, I don't think any potential new player is going to be confused about it being an empty server.
The issue with people using tells to check PC level seems irrelevant.
For any veteran, surely it takes less time to click on an EFUSL bookmark than it does to load up NWN, go to EFU, and check the playerlist.
The benefits of this change to me have been really good.
We should likely add some messages explaining and mentioning EFUSL in our module description, perhaps, for the benefit of new players - but I really don't see the need to turn off this feature, as I am fairly convinced it provides some excellent benefits.
Quote from: Wern8and at the meantime it may cause high level characters to pick on the lower level characters in PvP situations, unknowingly.
This is also a problem, as much as higher level PCs knowingly picking on lower level PCs.
QuoteOriginally Posted by Wern8
and at the meantime it may cause high level characters to pick on the lower level characters in PvP situations, unknowingly.
This is bullshit IMO. If the higher level PC's don't know them, chances are they are a low level. In extreme cases like... for example Ayana Cain, where she was ALWAYS a low level, she was still a well established PC with loads of reasons to kill her, so there was no real issue, IMO.
It's just common sense, really. If you've never seen the PC before chances are very good they are not a high level. (Unless you are like Ommadawn and you never see anyone because your timezone sucks)
I've always held the theory that new players are brought in by word of mouth more than anything else. If anyone knows differently, feel free to enlighten me.
I can't speak for a new player now, but the only reason I ever needed look at the list was to know someone's level and build after it became apparent that I was getting my ass beat in PvP because others were considering the weaknesses in mine. Suddenly it became an arms race, and the lack of the list seems to have cooled that down a bit. It brings back a certain element of surprise. I like it the way it is. Your character sheet should be between you and the DMs.
It never occurred to me that I would learn anything meaningful about a new server by making a quick scan of the player list. The things I want to know about a server aren't on that page.
What?
I'm surprised to have to say that this is the best change in the game since challenge ratings and current magical effects were removed from descriptions.
Consider the implications deeply, and you will see how the pros outweigh the cons. By the way I am staring at more players right now than I had seen in a few sundays; through EFUSL.
I am in favor of keeping it the way it is! Hiding classes and levels is good.
Quote from: core;110761This is also a problem, as much as higher level PCs knowingly picking on lower level PCs.
PS: LOL
PPS: I really don't get it.
Keep it the way it is, imo.
I like the changes, leave them.
While I understand that many of the things mentioned might be annoying, I think the benefit outweighs the cost. I like people not knowing my level or class, and I like not knowing theirs.
As far as PvP goes, you should always have a good and interesting IC reason to PvP. Level shouldn't come into play except to determine who gets subdued. Getting into PvP with low-level characters isn't a problem; deliberately PvPing low-level characters because they're low-level (or even just because you assume they are) is.
Now the only way to really know someone's level is to be a DM or to ask the person in tells, so I don't see why it's a problem.
Leave it the way it is. This is absolutely great for subraces and players who might want to keep secrets, as well as many other great reasons.
Quote from: Cruzel;110764It's just common sense, really. If you've never seen the PC before chances are very good they are not a high level. (Unless you are like Ommadawn and you never see anyone because your timezone sucks)
^_^
Quote from: I can has fun?;110766I've always held the theory that new players are brought in by word of mouth more than anything else. If anyone knows differently, feel free to enlighten me.
I can't speak for a new player now, but the only reason I ever needed look at the list was to know someone's level and build after it became apparent that I was getting my ass beat in PvP because others were considering the weaknesses in mine. Suddenly it became an arms race, and the lack of the list seems to have cooled that down a bit. It brings back a certain element of surprise. I like it the way it is. Your character sheet should be between you and the DMs.
It never occurred to me that I would learn anything meaningful about a new server by making a quick scan of the player list. The things I want to know about a server aren't on that page.
Agreed! I like the fact that the levels and classes are hidden. I don't want people coming after my poor little mage because they think he's an easy target >_>
Other than having to check EFUSL to see who is on, I love it like it is. Probably one of the best changes ever made.
Edit: I have changed my post to more accurately reflect its content in fewer words:
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/0a/Bawwwww_bunny.jpg)
This change has nothing to do with being hardcore or not, it's about privacy, and we have seen more new players since the change than we had in the months leading up to it. (Though, it's a correlation, not a cause.)
Edit:
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/0a/Bawwwww_bunny.jpg)
I still don't get that argument about the website. It is infinitely faster than loading up NWN.
Jasede, your posts have no arguments or reasons in them. You wouldn't have come if you didn't see the player list? To me, that says more about you than about the direction the server should go! It has nothing to do with being 'hardcore' or not. You don't need to know other peoples classes or levels to be able to be 'hardcore'. However, you do if you want to be a metagamer.
I completely don't understand how it is in any remote way unfriendly to new players.
Quote from: "Jasede"Of course, Throb never really listens, which is why he also has the Dungeon Master portfolio.
You sound so melodramatic, man. No, it's true that I'm not a babysitter so I tune out when people start crying rather than talking.
And you're having a serious weep-a-thon over a playerlist <_< like it's a end-all change to the setting and server and affect everything In-game.
Like you said, man. Just a game and this is a change that makes it even sweeter to play and not to watch from the gamespy client.
Personally, I don't check EFUSL to see who's logged in, since usually when I'm about to jump in, I check to see if a faction/plot-mate is on or not and decide if I need to get the needed character.
Though I don't mind having a blank player listing. Though I wish that it would allow for just the character name, perhaps, and omit the class/level information, however, I do not believe this is possible to do.
I am in favor of this. Surely stops metagaming certain aspects of a player.
It's an all-or-nothing deal, unfortunately.
For the first year on EFU, I never in knew there was a list of PC's that included their levels and classes. This did not cause me to come or not to come in the first place or change my decision after I knew of it.
The first I heard of it is when I was dueling in the arena and somebody sent me a tell informing me I was crazy for trying to fight a barb/fighter of high level. Now that was irritating.
But as we cannot get a list of names only, it is best that it is not there at all, because we do not need a list to metagame.