EFUPW Forums

What does the player base think about implementing an EFU Discord Channel?

Note: We will always strictly disallow the use of voip while playing. But it does seem that Discord is becoming increasingly popular and may serve our needs well.

But up to you guys.

It's a superior webchat site, better than any other i've used so far. Extremely easy to use and very easy to customize to fit any servers needs for chatting. I use it extensively everyday- not to mention you don't have to worry about crashing and suddenly losing the entire conversation, and netsplits aren't a thing on discord.

The old classic IRC will prevail.

Simple with nothing else than date&time, nick and message.

Easy to navigate through and follow even massive chats going on (as often happens on main channel).

Privacy.

No smileys, no gorillas, no memelinks.

Vote to stay in IRC now. You won't regret it.

I'm for doing away with IRC and handling everything via forum PMs and a dictatorially moderated web chat for emergencies you get shunted out of once your business is concluded. Can we vote for that?

Only if it can be globally muted, handle "announcements" (or utilize a non intrusive bot to repeat such every 15 minutes or something), support faction channels somehow without needing their own "servers", protect from spamming idiots, and so on.

If we're not using voice chat then I don't really know what discord offers over irc aside from being newer.


edit: On second thought, I'm not opposed to EFU Discord. I just hate change and I'd get used to it.

Pros:
+users can receive messages when not online, and are effectively idled in IRC for as long as they're a member of the discord server. Should make keeping in touch with old hands a lot easier if they leave EFU but keep using discord.
+the app is perfectly portable from PC to Phone, or any device that can run a web browser.
+Discord provides a secure API for scripting IRC features. on Discord we can very easily replicate and extend the capabilities provided by Sanctuarybot
+By default, all members of the discord server are in a set of public channels
+Discord is the new popular thing that everybody who plays vidgamz these days has. in other words, it's a lower cost of entry for new players

Cons:
+Discord includes Voice chat capability. You don't HAVE to include voice channels on a server, but switching to discord comes with the implicit knowledge that everybody on the server is currently logged in to a voice chat app with any number of private alternate servers where people CAN voice chat in near-perfect secrecy. The upshot is : this has ALWAYS been possible.
++Most DMs are on record as being completely opposed to voice chat being used in game, ever.
+discord's appearance is pretty much limited to how far you zoom the text, and whether you prefer a dark color scheme or a light one

No reason not to. I don't really go on IRC much as it is, and thus miss spontaneous event notices cause I'm watching anime lol.

I am for it only if  sending/shouts are recorded in a room

Discord basically does everything IRC already does, and more, with a cleaner layout through channels and better possibility for announcement system.

If your goal is to appeal to new players then I would go for it. 

I think plum has hit the nail on the head in its most simple of arguments. There exists a middle ground that Kotenku got set up where IRC is relayed to discord and vice-versa, perhaps?

So I'm new to Discord, but having played around with it some can see a number of advantages.

Channel management is a lot easier, so we can have things like #askadm and DMs will actually be responsive to it as we won't have to deal with bothering to set up auto-join on IRC, etc.

We can make it so text in a channel can be reviewed later on even if you're not logged on, this will be incredibly useful for keeping DMs up to date with plot things/discussion as we almost never update our private forums with everything that is going on.

That will also be useful for some kind of welcome channel where new players can see and review issues for common problems, might save us on having to answer the same questions over and over again.

You can change the settings to an IRC'esque text display and even zoom out text far faster viewing.

I like that there is a mobile app.

Some kind of IRC relay bot seems like it will make the transition a lot easier.

And finally, there is a wider NWN community that we're pretty disconnected with - I think having Discord may well bring us some good new players.

.... but there are a lot of "no" votes here. If people (aside from elmo) have really strong objections, I'd really like to hear them, either here or in private. Perhaps there are things that I'm unaware of or have not considered.

I think we all just want what is best for EFU!

I put together a long post to argue in on behalf of Discord, but it seems like we've already decided in favor.

If you've never used it before, here are some examples (https://imgur.com/a/p0deV) of the default interface.

If you don't want people using VOIP while in game then discord isn't something that should be incorporated into EFU.

If EFU were to switch to discord you can all but guarantee players would be on voip with each other IG a lot more frequently after their new point of meeting has it built in.

It is a nice platform but I don't think it would be a good idea for EFU.

I think it is silly to assume that the switch to discord will result in a significant increase in people using a VOIP while playing. Discord is an incredibly popular program that many people already use outside of efu for other games, including many people who play on efu. The fact of the matter is that people who want to use voice programs that way while playing efu are already doing so, and have probably been doing so using programs other than discord for a while now.


Discord offers a lot of upgrades over irc as a text interface, and the primary efu discord server can easily be set up to not have any voice channels with it. Plus, as mentioned by others, it would be something that could really help new players get into efu and make finding information easier.


To me the idea of avoiding it for fear of more people using it to organize voice parties is similar to the argument that we should ban irc because people use it to alert each other to log on and participate in pvp. It happens, sure, and it probably happens more because people use irc than it would if it didn't. But I think overall it is a minority occurrence and the good it offers far outweighs the potential cons.

I actually do not care.  If this "discord" is better I am fine with it.  I am not computer savvy enough to care.

It should be noted that Discord can't be logged. If there's anyone else like me who enjoys to keep logs of IRC chat and sending know that that will end.

In recent times I've been trying to limit my out of game communication to a minimum in regards to efu. I get that I'm probably a weird minority of those who forego most interactions with the community at large outside the game, but Irc is nice and minimalistic for that purpose. It's also easy to remain relatively anonymous if you so wish, though I'm aware that if someone really wants to they can find you eventually.

Discord is great for other games. I just don't see myself using it for something is unique as efu. As long as I can read sendings and shouts somewhere (preferably still in an Irc channel) I'd be happy with whatever the community at large decides.

Is "Discord" an interface or a combination of a chat protocol and an interface?  If the latter, is the chat protocol open?  Can I connect to a discord chat with my choice of user interface?  Or am I stuck using the Discord interface(s)?  Can I connect to a Discord server with Mibbit?  PSI?  Pidgin?  IRSSI?


IRC is itself only a protocol.  If Discord is only an interface, then can it speak IRC?  If so, no problem, folks who like Discord can connect to darkmyst through Discord.



I personally don't want to be stuck with using a web interface or a smart phone interface (I don't own a smart phone).  If discord uses an open protocol (such as IRC or jabber) then great, I can connect to it with any number of interfaces.


Do I have to use software written by the Discord team to use Discord?


-gracken

QuoteIt should be noted that Discord can't be logged. If there's anyone else like me who enjoys to keep logs of IRC chat and sending know that that will end.

This is inaccurate and misleading. Discord chat is logged server-side to the beginning of time, and can be searched through within the app. If you wanted to save logs locally, I'm sure it's completely possible to script something to send all chat to text files as well.

Quote from: goateIs "Discord" an interface or a combination of a chat protocol and an interface?

Discord is a protocol and an interface,  but it also has a robust API which allows for projects like this : https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/604obt/discordircd_connecting_to_discord_with_your_irc/

and this:

https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc

to exist.

As someone who has used Discord extensively in other games, thought I would throw my two cents in on the pro side. Message retention and sub-channel division is huge. It lets the DMs lock down specific channels for broadcasts, server events, newbie help, etc. It gives players the ability to scroll up and see everything. Discord also has a very nice smartphone app to stay in touch while AFK.

The VOIP functionality, while inappropriate for IG content, also provides great benefits for speeding up OOC discussions (DMs or player working on a concept / etc) and can help further build a sense of community if you have a lounge area people can chat while doing things other than playing.

There are certainly reasons to avoid VOIP but the main one I can see is meta gaming. You could check whether a player was in Game and in Discord, and observe people you think are cheating.


But I also think its very unlikely anyone here would do that on purpose because you're all role playing nerds.


I vote Yes because Discord could be used to create a much more interactive Music system in game. I know I would make a Bard in reaction to this change.

I literally only use the IRC because EFU uses it. IRC is inferior in every way possible and you can even set up bots to link forum posts and shout requests in specific channels so that people can see updates as they go in. You can set special DM and admin roles as well as faction rooms. You can even make a faction chat request sub chat as well. This would allow you to have things like WaW, SG, Exile, Mother Tribe, KotNP, Ooze, and other factions given their own chats in your server and remove them on request.


You can reliably set bots up for DM shouts and sendings for their own channels too. Discord is connected to the rest of the NWN community for the most part as well and allows developers to network and allows you to communicate with a larger base of gamers who might not otherwise hear of us while they're checking out other games in some cases if you're willing to reach out or post links to friendly affiliate servers and share information around.


You can also post invites that are much, much, much easier to use than the IRC server. Also discord has great voice function tbh.


If you want to avoid people using VOIP to metagame then just ban them from using the chat to play in game together or something but people who are determined will add each other on skype and discord anyway. They already do it.




Also kotenku's point on logging discord stuff is true and also you can basically set up a bot to log all that stuff that takes place server side for you if you're determined.


And discord is much better for use on a mobile device when you're outside or at work like I tend to be a lot. It's superior in every single way to IRC and more people will find it approachable. Good for new blood and old blood alike.

I have played on various NWN1 and NWN2 servers with Discord channels. And on none of them did anyone ever go into the voice channels while they were in-game.

I suspect this is because because everyone agrees with all of the above sentiments about it. As they too, were RPers. And have you 'tried' RPing while voice chatting? Or RPing while talking about the game with someone sitting next to you? It's difficult and inconvenient to hold two conversations at once like that, and it kind of breaks the atmosphere for the one doing it, too.

Overall, I can attest from these previous experiences that it would simply operate much the same as EFU's current chat system.

I have encountered one problem with these other server Discords, however, and that's that they get very argumentative and nasty sometimes. And become slightly detrimental to how people view each other when trying to RP together. But I think that problem on the other servers was more community related than application related.


::EDIT::

I forgot to mention. It's VERY easy to share files via Discord. Like screenshots/pictures and portrait files. Either to everyone in a channel or to individuals within the same server. You can also control what groups of people gets to see or comment in specific channels. Essentially giving you the option to do the same things you do on forums with a channel dedicated to the server downloads or announcements. Stuff like that.

Can the server prevent people from deleting their messages?

Hm. I don't think so? If it's in there it's not a function I've ever seen or am familiar with.

I'm a supporter of a transition to discord. A primary value for it that I can highlight is one that Kotenku already mentioned; bots can be scripted to perform the functions of SanctuaryBot and achieve even further functionality than IRC can provide.

For traditionalists who dislike emojis/avatar-based chat systems, discord actually has an IRC appearance mode in its settings that can be toggled. When activated, only usernames and relevant text are visible. Images do not appear automatically, avatars are not displayed and emojis are not present.


Roles can also be assigned (and a Bot can be scripted to allow members to automatically assign their own roles), removing the need for DMs to manually handle assigning access to faction channels that are only visible by faction roles. One could have, for example, private discord channels for the WaW, the Covenant and the Exiles, and players can message a bot to self-assign themselves to those factions and gain access to the channel, or remove themselves from it in kind. It also allows players to see at a glance what other users are involved in their faction, and whether they are online and available.


Important: It would actually also be possible, I think, to script a discord bot with efupw.com/forums moderator privileges to add and remove role-assigned players from their relevant faction forums, automating the process entirely. No more DM janitor work.


Concerns about VOIP: Yes, discord is a voice app and primarily used for that purpose. It is certainly true that discord could be used for illegal communication with voice while playing, but... It's not as if anyone with half a mind to do that wouldn't be doing it already anyway, and wouldn't have been doing it before discord with the likes of Skype, Ventrilo or Teamspeak.

Quote from: VanillaPudding on March 25, 2018, 12:48:33 AM
Can the server prevent people from deleting their messages?

No. However, the server keeps an Audit Log of every message that can be reviewed by moderators. Alternatively, the audit log can be made accessible by every member for review regardless of role. A bot can also be added that keeps a public transcript of every message.

So #efu is still official, and our Discord channel isn't really polished/set up fully/no bot or anything, but for those who wish to hang out there here is a link: https://discord.gg/htBk4fV

For those new to Discord and who like the way messages are laid out in IRC, I suggest going to Discord -> Preferences -> Message Display and selecting "Compact: Fit more messages on screen at one time #IRC" and then zoom out the text to whatever level you're comfortable with.