I do not support this in the slightest. When i planned this concept, this wasnt even suggested at the time, and i knew it was going to be difficult, now i am fuming.
QuoteAttention people of the City of Rings, I am Lady Soppira, Wizard, Scholar, and Doctor. I come to speak to you once again, many events have happened in the last week or so, none of which alleviate the despair and pain in my heart at seeing those who are ripped from their homes and lives, trapped within this unforgiving place, and the bloody conflict between the peerage with the crownles
Quotecitizens of tinker growing worse. As I continue to offer my brewing services at cost, crafting wands as well, and offering my medical skills to the sick, injured, and dying no charge, I seek those of like mind and purpose to join my in my quest, to help us find some peace and harmony in this place, please seek me out and let your voices be heard!
That, cost me 100 groats, because my character is so long winded, and passionate, she speaks enough that it cant fit in ONE SENDING, and i am not going to try and work around the system, and have someone else speak for her, just to avoid the huge pricetag, that i think shouldnt be there in the first place, this stifles some creative worded PCs, if this was meant to stop or discourage sending wars and banters back and force, outright ban those instead, i do not think this is an adequate solution if that was why this was put in place, and it sure isnt making the server more fun in my opinion.
Stop selling potions to adventurers at 0 profit and instead focus on raising money for the actually poor and needy
THAT BEING SAID, I actually agree - sending wars are just a part of EfU; and basing sending cost on level and server occupancy is a bit arbitrary. Is there anyway to scale it on a charisma check, like having low charisma used to get you shut out entirely for maintenance? Instead it can cost more.
I quite like the change. It's an awful cut into the pocket of level 5+ PCs for sendings and quite frankly I don't think it should be reverted. There are many opportunities to acquire wealth in game, and if you -really- want to get screeching done over the sendings then you're just gonna have to pay and think about what you want to say more.
Does what you have to say even need to be done over a sending? Can you not just make a flyer or post and put it up in the forums instead?
Well it depends on your goals and what you seek to do, i am actually trying to do something i have never done before, and this is making it very difficult as an uneeded and unexpected change, also, for a lot of PCs its still somewhat difficult to actualyl get that kinda gold, and part of the problem is i had to split that sending in half, so i had to get charged twice, if not for the text limit i might not be AS annoyed with this change, and i have seen the text limit in NWN be circumvented, but the examples i have seen are external means. I still do not agree with this change in the slightest, and think it should be scrapped as it will hurt some creativity overall i feel. I am trying something new with this concept because its an entirely new chapter, and this is really making me feel like its not worth it, specially if this stays.
I wonder if a sliding scale based on frequency is possible or a better solution. I get also that it pushes people away from using the sending system as a crutch to push things rather than going out and RPing but 50 does seem a bit steep. Perhaps have them double in price for each sending within 5 minutes of the last? something along those lines
You know the forums exist right, bobby? You can literally make as many paragraphs as you want... right here. Make a poster - make a sign , drop letters in game. They cost less, look cooler, and will probably draw more attention.
Also - if gold is an issue, brewing at cost is a bad answer.
While i find the concept cool, being poor for giving out hundreds of gold in healing and the like, without donations in return, tends to leading you to be poor.
Seriously.
I don't think it's unreasonable to make ONE follow-up sending cheaper (10gp? 5?). It stops people from making huge long multi-sending rants, but if there's simply not enough room or their message gets cut off and they need to continue? let's be far less punishing.
I don't have an opinion yet on the actual cost changes but I think follow-up sendings can be addressed as a quality of life thing?
As the patron saint of sendings and having spent fortunes on the craft I look forward to a leveled playing field.
Jokes aside though, on my beggar PC I made a small pleasant business as a town crier type PC. I'd run through the streets shouting about Duels happening or etc when a few PCs tossed me around 10 coins. PCs tend to hang out in a few areas, it doesn't take that long to run around, etc. The only thing you really lose is the Discord crowd. Another time a Merchant paid me like 20 gold to run around the open door and beyond to bring in more customers.
Granted not all PCs at all times will be willing to jump around and do that kind of thing but there's definitely alternatives.
People saying use the forums, well I personally prefer to use the forums as little as possible and keep things in-game. So that's not really the point of the complaint / suggestion.
I think 50 gold is pretty high a price but I would just find another method of advertising like shouting in the merchant square or pay a guy to yell around town for you. I'd do that before I paid 50 gold!
Rent a stall. "At cost wands and potions, and other charity"
When PCs come up, wall of text them.
The merchant messages are not a solution as its not just advertising a business, She is literally speaking her mind and looking to start a group of her own, but that is also besides the point, the forums are not for things that seek a more IMMEDIATE response, its for things over time, the merchant stalls are for selling services only, the sending system is specifically to make announcments and be heard, and that is also linked to discord so people who are there and NOT IG can see what is going on, if you cut that off, they are left out of the loop as well, i am at work during the week most of the game, and the DM shouts and sendings at least give me some idea of whats happened during the day when i cannot be on, so i know what to ask about when i do get IG.
Keep the sending system as it is now. It's such a breath of fresh air. Sendings, as they were, were a crutch that far too many people relied on.
As someone who poured thousands of gold in 10gp bursts for sendings and announcements and bickering wars and long overdrawn speeches... the current state of the server is so much better and I was actually happy to see this implemented. The first few days without sendings were actually quite cool; you had to actively search around for PCs you wanted to interact with and you couldn't summon a quest horde with one sending.
Ring 99 is not that big. It is very easy to bump into players. It is incredibly easy to get together quest groups with a little bit of walking between Open Door and Peerage Ward. Just last night, I had to separate 18 people into three separate questing groups because we got so many tagalongs. That was without making a sending. I can't imagine how chaotic things would be if, during peek hours, someone made a sending call for questing.
I don't see or understand why what your PC said in a sending is necessary to say in a sending. These are things you should be saying to other people, spreading through word of mouth and the prestige of your character. This is something that could have easily been posted in the Public Board forum. You could easily make a few coins off of brewing and wand crafting instead of doing everything for free. Hand out pamphlets. Have your character introduce themselves and tell their spiel. Go on "peacekeeping" missions in the King's Commons. Involve people. Do cool things. There is so much to do and so many people to do it with right now. I think making a sending is the least interesting way to facilitate this.
My 2 pence,
The server was really, really, really lovely before they fixed the sending system. Honestly it encouraged people to gather crowds and spread their message or find others for the sake of work. I've always found them to be a bit of an excuse for covering metagaming.
Rather than magically say: "Quest train, get here now." or sending wars.
I strongly back the sending system change, but would love to see it modified. I'd much prefer an escalating price system. Like this:
First sending - 25 gold, second 75, third 150, fourth 250, fifth blocked.
This has an added bonus - actually saying something THAT long is exceedingly expensive, so one might be inclined to realize, "Okay, they just dropped 200 gold on those three sendings. They must really care about Issue X."
I wonder if there should be a "price reset" cooldown. Maybe an hour real time. Maybe a 24 hour/reset.
An "emergency mode" sending may also be useful for those RwG types out there who hit their sending cap but still need to play Lassie the dog.
I don't think much of the level-adjustment, it just seems odd. "The Open Door is under attack... quick, find a feeble-looking adventurer to make the call to arms! What do I look like, I'm made of gold?"
Ideally, I can see how this new system might encourage people to actually approach groups and make friends in game. But I'm honestly not sure what the intended effect is. It might be a small dent in the purses of people who know the ropes, but I think its really going to cut into the experience and retention of new players.
1) Its fairly simple to hit 5 on EFU in a day or two with cautious questing. Its retaining players who hit level 5-6, but aren't quite experts at questing, that's the challenge. Ideally these players might start breaking off and joining factions once free resting and cheap sendings dry up. Or they might get frustrated and check out once the novelty of the setting wears off, and pushing events suddenly becomes that much harder. You can certainly argue "well we only want the ones who will jump into a faction once the free gold dries up!" - But I think there's a middle ground of easing people into the rhythm of EFU.
2) As much as veterans in discord like to groan about sending wars, Sendings are a big part of what makes EFU great and encourages people to get involved. I've never found a high density of sendings on EFU to be oppressive. They let you know what's going on, and easily coordinate in-game events. Otherwise its pretty easy to miss something going on in the Peerage if you hang around the Open Door all day or vice versa. Its fewer opportunities for the guy whose fallen into a daily rhythm of Anxious Gardener/Puzzlers/Fedex quests to break his routine and engage.
3) Pulling aside a random person and having them make a sending for you sounds like a fun way to involve people. But is it that stage, at level 4, where you're inundated with quests to explore that you need those interactions? Its more around 5-6 when supplies start to dry up that a newbie needs the attention.
Unsure how it'll effect the retention of players. No other servers have sending systems afaik and they seem fine in holding their players. Honestly, if the cost is an issue, charge more for your services. Find an IC solution to this IC problem.
Kind of further encourages people to coordinate oocly, if anything. This'll mostly just inconvenience players who don't have an ooc clique of friends to play with. Not sure where this anti-sending sentiment came from all of a sudden but it seems really unnecessary. While sending wars are obnoxious, maybe just punish those who lower the quality of the atmosphere with privilege revocations like in past settings? If we have to insist on this set up then I think 50gp is way, way too high. I think 25gp would be enough to stop frivolous sendings given the current economy.
I am very much for keeping the prices high!
I love it and think it should be addressed by angry senders ig.
"Damn it whisperers, listen to us so we can tell you why your prices are too expensive!"
Quote from: Knight Of Pentacles on January 27, 2019, 09:06:51 AM
Kind of further encourages people to coordinate oocly, if anything. This'll mostly just inconvenience players who don't have an ooc clique of friends to play with. Not sure where this anti-sending sentiment came from all of a sudden but it seems really unnecessary. While sending wars are obnoxious, maybe just punish those who lower the quality of the atmosphere with privilege revocations like in past settings?
Other people have said it more eloquently but I agree with this 100%. This chapter is very hard, which is fine, it is fun, but all this does is encourage people to OOC coordinate more when there is already a very large incentive to do so due to limited supplies.
I can honestly say that in chatting with new players twice recently and trying to be welcoming, they privately expressed frustration at the inability to find quests or stuff to do, one said they "finished" EFU because they could not find groups which I found very troubling. I gave them some guidance on how to find or make a group but still, I don't feel that is ideal.
This feels like a solution to a problem which does not exist and causes very real problems, making it harder to involve people and encouraging OOC coordination.
I don't understand what the problem this is supposed to be addressing. Stopping "quest trains"? They still happen, people just coordinate without sendings, leaving others behind and thus excluding new players. Stopping "sending wars"? I think there has to be better ways to do that than making sendings prohibitively expensive.
Since when was 50 gold prohibitively expensive? Within 10 minutes of creating a character with 0 gold, i had 300 gold. Within an hour, i'm sitting at 500. This is with selling nothing, doing no major quests, or anything.
50 gold is not expensive, its only expensive when you make more than one or two sendings in between questing.
Instead of spending 200 gold making a 4 sending announcement... how about have 1 sending announceing that you have a new notice on the public boards?
Instead of declaring that you have created a group, and then listing everything your gorup does... how about use a combination of the group management forums, public boards, and in character (in person) recruiting?
Judt a few tips.
And no, spending 50 gold to announce that you're heading out is not expensive. Unless of course you don't actually head out.
The point of the Sending system change is to curate abuse of the system. Instead of hearing twenty sendings as someone is giving a speech, they can now give fifty gold to announce they are giving a speech in an area. Instead of people saying they are going questing over a system (when we currently have 50+ players), it is an incentive to instead go out to the Open Door / Spinning Groat to find people in game and do so. You don't need to announce how charitable you're doing over a sending - you can do that through a forum post on the public boards, putting it in your PCN / EFUSL, or merely going around telling people like 'hey I gave these beggars a hundred coins, instead of wasting it on two sendings telling people I am a charitable person'.
The whole OOC clique stuff is a bit silly to assume - I've made so many PCs in the past settings where I would go around and find people to rally under my banner. The current group I belong to was made through IC interactions, and we still let people who are not in our group tag along if there is space. It's about being loud, in a sense, but also being mechanically proficient enough to have people want to quest with your character. People see that if they do a quest with someone who is a bit proficient and they personally do not want to die, they will flock to these people.
I continue to welcome feedback, and am happy to consider adjustments.
The origin of this was noticing that in the first few days when the sending system was broken how nice it was for groups to naturally form and be developed through RP rather than the almost OOC mechanic of, "Assemble here for X quest."
Given the foot traffic in Ticker Square and elsewhere, it's difficult for me to imagine that it is hard to find interaction.
I do agree it is important that new players find a way to get involved or develop groups, but I question whether sendings are the best way to do that.
Again, though, this is an experiment. We can always tweak or revert as needed. In fact one change I might make is keep it cheapo sendings through level 5 instead of 4.
I like the idea of raising the price.
Could you hire someone to run around and gather a crowd? I'm sure an ambitious player would undercut the sending system.