Considering that the Stonebuilder's Guild is contracted by the Merchants to serve as enforcers and protectors of Ticker's Square, perhaps it might be appropriate for them to receive a wage tick perk? That would certainly offer them an incentive for membership beyond free resting.
I'd rather they get some kind of point system similar to peerage points for better gear. Though how they'd earn such points is difficult to say. Maybe let them "destroy" peerage items for points? Wages are hugely overpowered and I hope we never see them again.
A 4gp wage isn't even very useful enough to be considered over powered. The 15 gp of high level app only ranks that you had to be significant to achieve is fine for the characters acting as a driver for their faction.
Or just let the stonebuilders keep a portion of fines they impose encouraging them to enforce the law.
In screenshots, I saw that there was a "favor wage" for many EFU:M/EFU:A factions.
I think that would be the most appropriate wage for the Stonebuilders. It could tick whenever they're in Ticker Square or one of its many shops. Traded for unique Stonebuilder consumables. And all of these consumables will have to be egregiously heavy boulders, of course; only the swole may survive.
In lieu of a wage as they're supposed to be the muscle of the area it would be appropriate to have some "Shake Down" dialogue among the NPC merchants. Persuade/bluff/intimidate checks around a few of the merchants in the Ticker to pay their dues for the day?
I never thought the GP per tick was very useful, especially to players who can't afford to dedicate long hours to playing. I always liked the late SG favor point per reset.
Quote from: bobofwestoregonusa on February 06, 2019, 11:06:30 AM
A 4gp wage isn't even very useful enough to be considered over powered. The 15 gp of high level app only ranks that you had to be significant to achieve is fine for the characters acting as a driver for their faction.
My most powerful character in efu revelations Thynne managed to keep herself supplied for weeks of conflict without ever questing with a 4 gp wage. It is exceptionally overpowered . Once she had the 15gp wage she was able to supply three minions at a time with huge chunks of potions while guzzling fifty or sixy of them herself at the drop of a hat. Wages are immensely overpowered and it's why rogues have to give up the far superior level 8 perks if they want to earn it.
A favor wage as mentioned by Stranger sounds like it could work though.
Wages should be saved for app faction or promotional status. I do not want to see a repeat of waged guards this chapter. The best option is having a favor store with access to some guard throwables, potions, and faction gear.
A wage of GP represents the ability to accumulate power of some manner by doing nothing but being IG. I'm alright with that, but I do feel that it can be quite powerful. You could spend the GP on anything. You could save up and buy assassinations, who knows. So - while I'm OK with a wage of GP, I don't think it's likely to be appropriate for factions/associations that have a good chance of conflict and PvP. As enforcers of Ticker Square, I don't think the Stonebuilders would work out well with a GP wage. If they do get themselves wages, I think favour wages for specific items from an exclusive Stonebuilder supplier would be a good compromise.
A very small wage paid only in Ticker/Open Door would likely be appropriate.
Coin is indeed important in Ticker Square so I don't think they need some kind of alternate favor system.
Quote from: Howlando on February 06, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
A very small wage paid only in Ticker/Open Door would likely be appropriate.
Coin is indeed important in Ticker Square so I don't think they need some kind of alternate favor system.
I was never saying it doesn't make sense. We will however see a massive tip in the balance of power of players if one faction gets a even a tiny gold wage. While favor shop rewards are certainly considerable. They are dwarfed in the long run by raw coin and cannot be gained passively like a wage. I feel like any kind of wage is going to be a disaster in the long run unless of course we're aiming to have the stonebuilders be a spellguard tier faction.
how about a cap on wages earn per real life day? If that is doable.
Maximum 50-100g per day?
TBH I am against a wage. They have legal power in a major hub. It would be easy for a stonebuilder PC to make gold. They really don't need a wage.
I say unless you give the peerage a favor point wage system the stonebuilder's should earn their gold. Stonebuilder's can make merchants pay them to guard stalls, charge peerage PCS to not get beat up, fine PCS for actions commited around the rings. Or just go out in the commons and greater rings and enforce their own sort of laws. Stonebuilder's can say "papers please." and fine people without papers or beat up and fine known necromancers/scum that have poison/necromantic goods and drugs.
Yea it would mean that stonebuilders would earn their wage through IG actions and conflict just like the peerage!
I see a bit of "Stonebuilders should hit up (N[PC]) merchants for their pay" in here. This is exactly the sort of activity the faction is meant to protect against. EFU being a "gritty" setting where you can play a variety of evil, illegal, or questionable concepts doesn't necessitate that all systems should gravitate towards facilitating or encouraging that.
Merchants and citizens of Ticker Square buy protection (papers) from the Merchant Guild.
Merchants pay the Merchant Guild to rent stalls.
The Merchant Guild pay the Stonebuilders to keep an eye on things.
The Stonebuilders pay their individual men so they can actually perform their duties and make a living from it instead of needing to die in the Rings or turn merchants upside-down for the contents of their pockets.
From what I recall of EFU:R, wage ticks 1) popped every 15 minutes, 2) required activity (at least some form of movement or typing), and 3) were only available while in the job's relevant hub (a Clerk did not earn wage outside of Sanctuary proper). Other things to consider are that some people work jobs or do other things away from their computers and so they don't have six, eight, ten hours to devote each day to idling on a PW and pretending to be busy, and may even want to spend their time on the server going out and doing things in places where they earn no wage. The server doesn't appear to balance other systems based on the behavior of those who might exploit it the most, so I don't see why wages would be so contentious.
Quote from: I love cats on February 07, 2019, 08:34:22 AM
TBH I am against a wage. They have legal power in a major hub. It would be easy for a stonebuilder PC to make gold. They really don't need a wage.
I say unless you give the peerage a favor point wage system the stonebuilder's should earn their gold. Stonebuilder's can make merchants pay them to guard stalls, charge peerage PCS to not get beat up, fine PCS for actions commited around the rings. Or just go out in the commons and greater rings and enforce their own sort of laws. Stonebuilder's can say "papers please." and fine people without papers or beat up and fine known necromancers/scum that have poison/necromantic goods and drugs.
Yea it would mean that stonebuilders would earn their wage through IG actions and conflict just like the peerage!
This would be fine, were it not that the merchants already pay the Merchant's Guild 100 groat to receive their Protection. Stonebuilders shaking people down for more money are basically violating the protection contract they have with the Guild.
Quote from: Hound on February 07, 2019, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: I love cats on February 07, 2019, 08:34:22 AM
TBH I am against a wage. They have legal power in a major hub. It would be easy for a stonebuilder PC to make gold. They really don't need a wage.
I say unless you give the peerage a favor point wage system the stonebuilder's should earn their gold. Stonebuilder's can make merchants pay them to guard stalls, charge peerage PCS to not get beat up, fine PCS for actions commited around the rings. Or just go out in the commons and greater rings and enforce their own sort of laws. Stonebuilder's can say "papers please." and fine people without papers or beat up and fine known necromancers/scum that have poison/necromantic goods and drugs.
Yea it would mean that stonebuilders would earn their wage through IG actions and conflict just like the peerage!
This would be fine, were it not that the merchants already pay the Merchant's Guild 100 groat to receive their Protection. Stonebuilders shaking people down for more money are basically violating the protection contract they have with the Guild.
Stonebuilders can shake anyone down without the papers just by asking "Papers please." Which includes not only peerage folk but pondscum! It also includes long time adventurers that have not even bought papers. You can also just search people and say "poison and necromantic goods are contraband."
TBH I am all for an absurdly small wage between 50-100 groats or favor per reset for stonebuilders and peerage retainers. (Peerage getting favor of course.)
Quote from: Yamo B. There on February 07, 2019, 10:41:16 AM
From what I recall of EFU:R, wage ticks 1) popped every 15 minutes, 2) required activity (at least some form of movement or typing), and 3) were only available while in the job's relevant hub (a Clerk did not earn wage outside of Sanctuary proper). Other things to consider are that some people work jobs or do other things away from their computers and so they don't have six, eight, ten hours to devote each day to idling on a PW and pretending to be busy, and may even want to spend their time on the server going out and doing things in places where they earn no wage. The server doesn't appear to balance other systems based on the behavior of those who might exploit it the most, so I don't see why wages would be so contentious.
For watchers, Warders, Spellguards and sergeants it ticked every 10 minutes so long as you were wearing your uniform no matter where you were. People earned a fortunate actively playing plotting and scheming. If you managed to be around for 5 hours to play each day that's 120 gold a day for watchers/warders, 450 gold for sergeants/agents. If you play every evening actively for a week. Maybe taking two days off here or there or playing for less on some days during the week that's about 600 gold a week for watcher/warders and 2250 gold a week for agents/sergeants easily.
As I said its not an issue in the short term. It's when they exist over the course of many months, become established high level characters who only have to fight every now and then, that free money is a miracle worker. My agent rarely had less than 10,000 gold and god knows how many potions by the end all entirely paid for while I did my job. Even the four gold wage alone funded my purchasing several level 5 scrolls for a crucial battle for my character early on.
The wage being turned off outside of the city was for clerks and happened -very- late into the setting. The reason that happened was because a bunch of elected pc's had hired "clerks" who were silently questing while the wage accumulated despite not actually ever doing anything a clerk should do. If the wage was turned off outside of ticker square and only happened every 15 minutes instead of 10 wouldn't be so bad though.
120 gold is honestly nothing compared to the gold you get from questing in any capacity most of the time. This is not that serious of an issue. I could easily earn five times that much just by knowing what quests to do in a single reset. Being wealthy on COR is seemingly much more attainable but things like guild master fees, special armor, high end gear and things like that are attainable but require you to get gold in the tens of thousands. I think a wage is fine considering the design of the new server and its economy versus EFU:R. I also think app ranks that have to actually earn their position should probably be USING that gold to do stuff to drive their respective factions and if you're sitting on 10,000 gold at all times that isn't being used to further plots, RP and gear your faction you're probably not doing it correctly. It's there to be used, and its part of your influence as a character. You're given it with, at least in my interpretation of the system, using that system as a means of increased influence in order to be that sort of driving force with vast resources at his disposal.
That said I am all for it not accumulating outside of Ticker Square and the Open Door Inn, though a wage extending to the commons seems reasonable as well since the Stonebuilders might need to do stuff there for their duties.