Because I don't understand why a fall would count as "magical" (aka, piercing every form of resistance)
It really should just be bludgeoning damage.
The ground isn't magical. The hit can be for so hard that a fall could still one-shot a wizard or sorcerer even with blur up. Barbarians with their massive DI/DR and such /should/ legitimately be more resilient to falling. Successive falls can wreck an entire healing supply.
If this isn't desired by the team, I would honestly like to know why magic damage was selected originally.
Contrarily... if things don't get changed, >_> Then make some feather fall potions.
It is kind of crazy that if you have a low HP pool, even if you are a good climber you can easily one shot yourself climbing small ledges. Nothing you can really do about it either, 1's happen
Magic damage is there because it's a fairly reliable manner of showing damage coming out of a fall. We do not want blur or damage resistance to block that damage. That is what would not make sense.
We could argue about density of people with more muscular build, being more resistant but that's nitpicking. It is not worth it to make elaborate scripts or mechanics by trying to bend the engine to handle such checks. So this is how it is right now.
When it comes to the damage, you can take a good hit of damage, but rarely would you one shot and kill yourself, unless you are very low with max hp and had the worst rolls.
It's a thing we discuss in the team often all the same, and it may change, it may not. For now it has remained this way, and it's likely to continue so. We are aware of all the opinions, but that won't sway mechanic changes on it's own.
D20 SRD rules on Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction)
"A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks."
Regardless of how far you fall, the ground/floor is not attacking you. Nor is it a weapon.
Many 'House Rules' probably apply DR to falling, but by the wording of the rules, DR doesn't necessarily apply to falling damage.
In NWN, the best way to represent this sort of true damage is with 'Magic' damage.
I would agree that in my perspective, falling onto the ground, or a cliff would likely be bludgeoning physical or piercing physical, depending on the ledge. Why would spells, effects etc that block physical damage not block this kind of damage? I agree also from the perspective of making it slightly easier for weaker characters in this magical setting.
If you look up the word physical... Not trying to be contrarian actually, just saying from my perspective...
1
a : of or relating to natural science
b (1) : of or relating to physics (2) : characterized or produced by the forces and operations of physics
2
a : having material existence : perceptible especially through the senses and subject to the laws of nature b : of or relating to material things
3
a : of or relating to the body
b (1) : concerned or preoccupied with the body and its needs : carnal (2) : sexual
c : characterized by especially rugged and forceful physical activity : rough
— phys·i·cal·ly adverb
— phys·i·cal·ness noun
As much as we appreacite the details and matters, we could discuss topics of what should be and what shouldn't be, forever, really.
If we wanted everything to be as proper and real, logical as we just possibly could, we should have instant kill throat slicing, ability to break a neck when you slip up and all sort of elaborate tricks and tweaks. We consider other options, but amount of opinions will not sway the outcome of whether we make changes or add some mechanics, based on suggestions. It will depend solely on basis and idea, and whether we think it's worth it over something else. Some aspects are there because we want it to be, for the sake of the game and consequences. Not even always that logical.
Read the suggestions guidelines. We consider the suggestions, and they may end up being added, or we may end up changing something. Or we may not.
What the DMs are getting at in the details of the problems with this is that a 250 lb. fat priest of Sharess would most likely receive far greater damage from a fall than a 90 lb. halfling rogue, but there is no easy way to implement this. So everybody, regardless of size, weight, skill, or magical aid all get hurt the same. Thankfully some of these still reduce the risk considerably.
Well the climbing scripts can already detect weight levels, so that's not true.
I'm pretty sure they just want it to be unblockable damage, rather than anything more complex than that.
The main issue is and has been the damage received from falling. Whether it is intended to detect areas, terrain, or other things really is irrelevant. It quite simply does too much damage and does not provide any true value to the server, only a penalty, and has become boring and random aspect of the server rather than a true addition towards additional flavor or otherwise.
Having a 5% chance of instant death at all times as a low HP class somewhat deters from motivating players towards exploring content and being proactive, especially when it is an event that can happen prior to even scraping at those agendas, and I do believe that is exactly what we try to promote around here.
In short: Lower the damage taken overall, add a save for reduced damage, and make the system a -fun- tool for exploration, not a required risk of boring death.
^I second this. And third this. Two thumbs up to the poster above me.
((I died twice in a row on a level four sorcerer a couple of days ago. She had a maxed skill in climbing, and the ledge was barely taller than she was. She was using a climbing claw, too, if that makes a difference. Both times, I believe she was at full health. Both times, she died pretty much instantly. What I took from it? "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
That's not a very satisfying ending. Quite random. lol.
Pigadig:
Quote from: Pup;367896Thankfully some of these still reduce the risk considerably.
I included variables in the examples for a reason.
While I agree mostly with VP and had written a long explanation as to why it should be changed I realized by the sheer length of my diatribe it would be rather untenable and time-consuming.
Frankly we're lucky to have such a system at all.
Pigadig: I included specific variables for a reason.
As to VP's point, perhaps it could be switched to a percentile system rather than a d20 skill roll. If you're a master climber you're not going to fall from a prepared rope 5% of the time. Most things are fine with d20 rolls, but as VP pointed out this is a rather important skill in this new setting.
Magic damage is simply used to represent unblock able damage in the engine. Bleeding is also magic damage, for instance.
Damage type doesn't matter to me so much, as I mostly agree that armor would only minimally protect against falls, and so it doesn't bother me.
What does bother me is that I can have a master climber with a +20 roll and he's still gonna take a fall an unrealistic amount of the time. Knowing that even the best climber in the world is statistically likely to fall on every expedition is a difficult thing to understand, or be in favor of.
I'm hearing two things in this suggestion. First that magic dmg needs to be replaced. I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen.
Second, that climbing is too hard (dmg needs to be lowered, dc rolls changed, etc). This is a better suggestion in my mind. The idea of a reflex save on a roll of one is probably the least difficult to implement. However, I don't think that because it is difficult for certain classes to climb that the whole system needs to be altered. Wizards are frail, maybe they shouldn't be climbing up mountains? Maybe that's too harsh?
How about this idea? A new item or piece of equipment to "replace" the climbing claw for those characters that might need it. I know there are harnesses etc around. This item could only be used while climbing and offer 5DR magic dmg. I don't know if that is even possible given the system. The important part being the item could only be used while climbing.
Two words: Safety Hats
Quote from: PanamaLane;369423I'm hearing two things in this suggestion. First that magic dmg needs to be replaced. I'm pretty sure that isn't going to happen.
Second, that climbing is too hard (dmg needs to be lowered, dc rolls changed, etc). This is a better suggestion in my mind. The idea of a reflex save on a roll of one is probably the least difficult to implement. However, I don't think that because it is difficult for certain classes to climb that the whole system needs to be altered. Wizards are frail, maybe they shouldn't be climbing up mountains? Maybe that's too harsh?
How about this idea? A new item or piece of equipment to "replace" the climbing claw for those characters that might need it. I know there are harnesses etc around. This item could only be used while climbing and offer 5DR magic dmg. I don't know if that is even possible given the system. The important part being the item could only be used while climbing.
I don't think an item use can give DR against magic damage. Even if so, I'd be worried about any item potentially preventing bleeding or drowning damage, even if by bugging out. You might be able to script a different type of claw that changes the damage formula used on the fall...
You could also reduce the falling damage taken by the efuss climbing skill.
However, as the fall is suppose to represent Risk... What if a fall attracted nearby monsters (like the shrieking mushroom but within closer range) and you were dazed rather then taking damage. That way its still very risky, no one wants to be dazed in the underdark, and trying to climb up a wall isnt killing you...
It would also be nice if you could have a second use on a rope to pull someone up. Strength roll, or a test against your encumbrance. More cooperation is always a cool thing to see.
It does feel that the damage is more of quick fix to make climbing dangerous... and really... none of the cliffs we can climb IG would be all that dangerous to climb by anyone that took even halfway sensible precautions. Climbing harnesses for one are designed to prevent people from really hurting themselves... and those are simply pitons and a safety rope.
It could be neat to see huge cliff-faces that could be scaled with great climbing rolls however, like DC 30+. They would transition you a long way up or down, or on a miss drop you into another area. We had suicide point on EFUa and EFUm, which seemed a more productive narrative use of falling damage.
Climbing is a dangerous activity, especially free-climbing as most PCs are. If you wanted to roleplay extremely careful, harnessed climbing in a DM quest, I am certain we would take that into account. Foot and hand holds aren't always stable and most characters are climbing with heavy packs on their persons. Some misguided notion of realism would dictate some consequences for a slip-up in such an activity; falling on your head isn't outside the realm of possibility.
Exciting climbing opportunities are in the works, with much more to come. It will not get easier, however, and the damage will remain magic damage.
Is there failure on 1 when using ladder? I think that there should be much smaller probability of fall than when climbing without a ladder and rope.
My suggestion is removing it from ladders. And the sorcerors has to find strong warriors who can carry their ladder ;)