A number of DMS bade said they feel like Baelstieres should not get an automatic voice on being promoted and I agree. I suggest that Banda Rossa not get a voice on being promoted.
I'm inclined to agree, I'd even go so far as to say the Balladeers shouldn't either. Both of these factions seem fairly easy to get promoted within.
Of course in the Banda it's a lot easier to earn the dinar to earn the voice if they want it. And the Balladeers don't quite have that option... But I still would say yes to both, personally.
Maybe split it in two somewhat?
You can be promoted internally within the Banda Rossa, the Sisters, the Baladeers, but you need to earn the respect of the Rose as a Whole in order for them to Sponsor you with a voice. They're technically counted as one entity after all.
Here's how I would rank the factions by ease of promotion in descending order, at least as I see it:
-Balladeers
-Banda Rossa
-Janissaries? Not entirely sure, I think scarab to soldier is probably easy enough to be in this 'tier' while further promotions are harder
-------- Line of Increased Difficulty
-Astronomers (with the caveat of being very systemized and defined, you know how far you are in promotion generally)
-Sisters
-Scribes (N/A - promotion is not mechanically a thing?)
If it's going to be changed, it makes the most sense to me to do so above the Line of Increased Difficulty.
That said, being voiced is a pretty good incentive for joining and ranking up in a DM faction, which I think is encouraged generally. (it's also beneficial for a faction to have more voiced members!) I'm not sure I really see the justification for taking it away.
Personal suggestions and recommendations:
1.) Do not give a Voice to people who become Balladeer or Balestriere.
Explanation: the Rose is the source of a huge number of Voices compared to the other factions. It gives them a huge amount of influence over politics relative to the other factions due to both the number of Cinquefoil factions and the number of players they draw in relative in comparison. I think this should probably be amended. It is important to remember they can easily group fundraise Voices, too.
2.) The Janissaries should continue to receive free Voices at their normal rank.
Explanation: I think players should remain heavily incentivized to play Janissaries. Janissaries should be rewarded for sticking with and surviving the experience long-term. As a rule of thumb, they still won't have that large of an influence on politics because of the apparent difficulty of achieving ranks that reward a Voice. It's an excellent chase goal.
3.) I recommend adding a rank between Balladeer and Lyrist that rewards a Voice and has more authority.
Explanation: I personally believe that the jump from Balladeer to Lyrist and Balestriere to Condottiero is very steep comparatively, and that it doesn't necessarily feel natural to have such a wide jump. I recommend a rank between both to add additional internal authority to these factions in absence of NPC/DM directive. These roles should reward a Voice because it's a logical extension of this authority.
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I think the Astronomers and Sisters are both fine where they are at as factions in regards to ranks and rewards for those ranks. Over all, I think Voice acquisition should be made harder in general, but beyond tweaking it as a faction rank reward that's a player-side goal. I think the Astronomers and Janissaries have it 'just right' at the moment.
also brain worm but maybe long time scribes should get voices ?? idk, i think they need some love but idk what
If we look at Voices as "votes" then I think the Cinquefoil is probably fine
Balladeers and Banda Rossa have enough deviation in interests that it hasn't been common that they want to vote for the same people
At the moment votes break down as:
Balladeers-4
Balestrieri-2
Apothars-3
Sergeants-1
None of this feels particularly imbalanced considering the Banda Rossa's historical voting record of "whoever pays the most"
I do totally agree that DM-granted voices should be a nice perk for long-lived PCs doing stuff that warrant it (like the Scribe example)
Dm-granted voices for heroism is a good idea.
Regarding the speed of access, I think it depends. It is true that some new PCs have gotten promoted in a bit less than a month, but many others take a much, much longer time. Ease of access depends, to an extent, on DM availibility, which in turn can vary wildly.
I also think, like cmden, that while the Rose /would/ be a great voting block, I don't think all the Rose has voted together in a single election so far (not even for Lynn, I think? XD Herding cats and so on)
With that said, the changes proposed would also not be unreasonable in any way, shape, or form. After all, people can still buy the Voices themselves (I know Narwen and Alejandro, for instance, had their voices LONG before becoming Balladeers).
All in all, I don't feel that its something that needs changing, nor that it would be detrimental to change. *Shrug*
Just going to put in my two cents here:
I think the Cinquefoil Rose is diverse and fragmented and even pitted against itself politically enough for this to be a non-issue.
They've only historically ever united for one election-- (Zaniah, and this one had special circumstances with the LoW candidate being a spoiler)-- the time that Lynneth ran more Rose PCs voted against her than for her.
Maybe it should cost a faction 5,000gp from its treasury to promote a member up to the next tier?
Things are fine as-is.
The Rose does not vote as a bloc. The individual factions don't even vote together.
There are opportunities to give out free Voices through player actions and active heroism. There was just an effort to do this that was blocked by the Legates.
Factions should feel influential. Giving a Voice to characters repping their faction with an app is ultimately an important way to avoid the inevitable situation of quest crushers getting all the voices and doing tremendously boring things.
Treasury of the factions is already fairly useless and never lasts more than a couple days.
Maybe I'm blind in my selfishness, but other than the current surge of Balladeers in the last week, the prestige of gaining a promotion (and the amount of them) has always been pretty evenly shared between the factions, minus the Sisters.
You can maybe gripe that more recent Rose promotions "have it easy" but I think it's generally cool to have people who feel comfortable flexing to help create a dynamic world. Having a wide distribution of power in the hands of many is good. It leads to situations like this election and the Red Star, which has been a rollercoaster of scheming, backstabbing, politics, and intrigue.
I prefer it if any of these changes are pursued in-game, rather than through the suggestions forum.