Hey guys, dont ye think its a bit TOO much too handle? Especially that they spawn even in the areas where levels 2-3 go?
Death Attack for 20-30 HP per blow? Come on! :)
I would suggest that the AB of these beasts is toned down. As it is now, lvl 6 fighters can experience difficulty fighting them even if they succeed the save vs paralysis and enter a head-on-head battle.
A possible solution would be to lower their strength by 2 or 4 points, to make them less of "Certain death" and more of "Yikes"
And possibly remove Hide in Plain Sight as well .. . . .
Yeah, It's a bit much when the run-of-the-mill NPCs have feats that are banned for PCs. You know how ridiculous it looks when you see a min-maxed half-orc shadowdancer assassin PC? Well, it's no different when it's an NPC.
EDIT: And just to add, I actually think their AB is just right, or could even go a bit higher if the death attack / HIPS combo was nixed. Tough is good, but when the monsters are overloaded with feats that no PC could ever attain at that level of hit dice, it's just wrong.
Quote from: I can has fun?;113007You know how ridiculous it looks when you see a min-maxed half-orc shadowdancer assassin PC? Well, it's no different when it's an NPC.
Except that they can easily be just max-maxed.
but not minmaxed, with a class the isnt allowed for pcs.
For once, I have to say, leave as is.
Orc Shargraas Disciples have an infinity for darkness, and they are easily defeated if you know what you're doing.
Also, A decent listen can detect them easily.
Hence why you have rangers with listen ranks!
Only seen them on a quest before and I find them to be hardly overpowered, my level six fighter seems to handle them easily enough. I admit though that was while buffed, but there was once where I fought one unbuffed. Defeated it fine as well. But its probably too much if they spawn in areas too near to the Ziggurat.
Tough, sneaky, good spot, good AB, Death Attack.
Really, for any given mob pick two.
Gob Assassins are a balanced level of scary. Death Attack is BAD, but they are weak if they don't get the paralysis off. Shargaas Disciples are the most nasty mob of Wild Orcs 2, and having them randomly spawn all over is offputting even for scouty types.
I really preferred it when the stealthy dangers were Goblin Assassins and Jungle Cats, and you didn't feel like you needed to be a minmaxed Halfling Ranger to be safe in the wilds.
These are the only monsters on any of the scripted quests that can give a wizard a fright, and on that basis alone I'd say leave them as is. Notwithstanding, their Death Attack is only DC14, which the standard 14 CON L6 wizard with no +saves gear, unbuffed, has a chance of passing over 50% of the time.
Quote from: Caddies;113120Notwithstanding, their Death Attack is only DC14, which the standard 14 CON L6 wizard with no +saves gear, unbuffed, has a chance of passing over 50% of the time.
Multiply that by however many times the new AI spams HIPS in a given encounter. If a given thing has a 50% chance of happening each encounter, or even multiple times per encounter, that means it happens quite often.
I went ahead and looked this up just to see if it would shed light on this, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense when you factor this into the equation:
QuoteShargass - The Nightlord - Chaotic Evil
Sharagass is the orc patron of silent death. A cruel and secretive deity, he is favored by those who work in the shadows, especially assassins and thieves. Clerics of Shargass are a secretive lot hiding themselves within the tribe to cull the weak with stealth and cunning. Orcs who live in the ever-present dark of Traykon's underworld revere him as their patron even above Gruumsh. A fact that angers the Orc-Father but there is little he can do without risking a war that could jeopardize his own power.
I still don't think they should be spawning around the ziggurat, but the feat selection doesn't seem so off-the-wall when you consider that these are the worshipers of the god of silent death. That was news to me.
Still though, they should be required to fill out an application for SD just like everyone else. :p
Although they were always an incredibly rare spawn, I removed them from the Wall Forest area as that is something of a newbie zone.
These are the only creatures to give invisible wiz. a tough time.
They are easily taken down by most warriors.
They are sneaks, but not even good ones.
Lots of items/skills about to counter them.
Leave as is, imo.
Er, any jelly can muck with an invised mage. Umberhulks used to in the UD, but they didn't stealth. Stuff with good detect skills shouldn't also be good at hiding, so you have wizards paranoid to invis anywhere, and all explorers ahev to be stealthed.
I'd vote for them not spawning in groups of 3, I'd say have one spawn with 2 orc warriors instead.
After having been fugued by a Shargass Disciple that was a spawn in the Starwood, I'm going to suggest that these nasty mofos shouldn't be spawning in farily well-trafficked areas. Have never seen one of them in the Starwood until the bastard was sticking my boi in the back.
These are fine for a quest, and even in remote areas that are known to be dangerous. But an arrowshot from a village of hardy natives? I'd expect to see very little hostile life near a village of sentient humanoids adapted for that environment.
Read through the thread and I disagree that these are a pushover. If you are alone and fail the Death Attack save - you are done. My hasted character had a buffed AC of 26. The orc's AB modifier was +12, so you can see that even high AC characters don't have great odds on that Death Attack.
To those who say don't travel alone - that's not helpful if you play a stargazer because the alternative is to spend HOURS IG at the village waiting for others to log on there or to show up with a party. Frankly, spending time alone in a village of NPCs isn't very enjoyable.
I'd really rather not metagame and ask people to come to the village to get my PC, and I'd really rather not break character by having my PC hang just outside the main gates. Investing cross-class skill points in listen is not a very viable option for a 10 INT character either.
If there is another viable alternative to these options, I'm all ears.
It's like a stealthed Umber Hulk standing near the entrance to the Old Mines in EFU. Not fun.
Last night I got killed in a single round by a jungle jaguar from stealth with while I was in stealth with 30 hide and 20 move silent a few feet from an npc settlement, it's not fun aspect of the wilds at all.
But sadly I don't think either of these mobs will ever be removed nor toned down. It shall always be a case that wilderness of efu is only for those with the most fortitude while the wimps skulk about in zig or in front of the rock bottom Kingsman
Edit: And yes I am starting to miss beholders, umberhulks and illithid due to their lack of stealth too <_<
Creatures usually are easier to spot than most PCs. Investing in spot/listen or advancing slowly with occassional stops to make your detect checks with d20 instead of d10 even if you are stealth is wise to spot these dangers beforehand and flee them, especially at night.
Using a torch/light to get +5 spot is also good in dark areas.
It's ironic that we have a thread suggesting how stealth is too weak and how stealth monster are too strong knowing that the hide/ms score for most monsters is like abyssmal and usually compares to the worst stealthers.
There is an easy fix for this dilemma. Replace Shargaas Disciple with Chosen of Gaathmar.
Quote from: Mort;132443It's ironic that we have a thread suggesting how stealth is too weak and how stealth monster are too strong knowing that the hide/ms score for most monsters is like abyssmal and usually compares to the worst stealthers.
Monsters stand still constantly, as you know standing still provides a massive boost to stealth and detection. Make them move about and then it won't be so bad.
Not THAT ironic, it's different people posting. And as Gwydion said, not every "wilds" concept can take detect. I'd suggest, seriously, replace them with Savage Prophets. A bunch of Fireballs off one of those can seriously mess with an unbuffed party, but you have a good chance of stealthing/invising past or making a getaway. Deadly, but spottable.
put in umber hulks if naga so commands
QuoteAnd as Gwydion said, not every "wilds" concept can take detect. I'd suggest, seriously, replace them with Savage Prophets. A bunch of Fireballs off one of those can seriously mess with an unbuffed party, but you have a good chance of stealthing/invising past or making a getaway. Deadly, but spottable.
Rangers get Spot/Listen as class skills, Barbarians get Listen as a class skill and Druids are Wisdom based...
If you made your PC with 10 INT and don't have enough skills for any detection despite being someone from the wilds, its sort of a self-dug grave isn't it?
I don't think anyone would argue that stealth is underpowered if you have HIPS+Death Attack to back it up.