I have started to really feel that this quest does not particularly contribute a positive effect to the server as it currently exists. I have seen, on occasion, a desire for larger groups of players to segment out into smaller 2-3 man groups to get more crystals/hour/day/player in a rather MMO-oriented manner.
Just a couple ideas off the top of my head that could possibly replace this:
- Change it into a persistent location with more areas within with searchables; limited to search each area once/player/reset or something fair that doesn't make people want to rush out and hit it at the beginning of each reset but instead naturally over the course of time
- Break it up into several small areas around the server, farther out, to facilitate to explore/trek out of Sanctuary to get to them
- Add a larger chance for purple crystal mines to pop up as randoms in certain areas
- Maybe finding alternative ways to get healing trinkets into the hands of players in more elegant ways; dissipating buff/healing trinket drops being more common off ambient spawns/certain tough spawns in harder areas.
I don't know the rules and restrictions of the EFU systems well enough to realistically propose how to fix the problem. But I do think the QA in it's current form is something of a problem.
One possible way to improve the quest would be to simply add distance to where the area with all the crystals are. Add some tunnels, spawn and possibly traps as well. By making it more time consuming and possibly harder as well it might reduce the temptation to split into smaller teams and just wait for 'everybody to be done.' As it is, you just go in, win one fight and start looting.
I miss the old quest with the duergar. At times it was hard as all out but it was so satisfying when you finally nailed the darn boss and his arcanist. I can see how the large supply of permanent crystals possible from it might not be desirable, though.
Or, Lia could just have murderbandits move in and return the quest from EFU:A-M
Mage will need to be renamed into ruffle-wearer.
A murderbandit quest would be awesome. Alternatively maybe a ambient purple crystal mine rife with its own dangers and unique appearance. Put a druidic groove there, mineable crystals, and places where crystals spawn on occasion. Let people have to fight whoever would claim it to get to the healing inside. Then again this could cause nature folk to have a disproportionate amount of healing. Though perhaps limit taking crystals to non-druids as it'd be against their vows.
Just for reference, my particular idea for searchables might have it's own problems; not sure what all you can do with the EFU systems to allow it to be fair and not just a new form of the same "farm spot healing quest".
The main point is just that this quest feels like it's a little too easy for what you get and is most likely just being abused by people who don't need it rather than being something that helps those people who genuinely might need it (such as higher level PC's who get mugged/use a lot of supplies and have no good way to gain more healing trinkets/supplies).
Could be only a few mineable crystals in open field, but once you've mined one you can't mine any other on the same reset.
And located near a critter spawn point.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;385698Could be only a few mineable crystals in open field, but once you've mined one you can't mine any other on the same reset.
And located near a critter spawn point.
The issue with this is that after a reset people would charge out to find them and they'd be gone inside an hour, likely to the same basic set of players each and every reset. Only way I see this working is if they're somehow attached to randoms, so they spawn over the course of a reset.
To me the whole point of this kind of thing is to help those who might be struggling supply-wise to keep afloat. Any implementation that works in such a way that those PCs won't benefit isn't desirable, and will just mean more profit for those who employ a more MMOish mentality. Better off without any kind of mine at all than one which will reward a select set of players who really don't need the help.
To address the issue of "earning" crystals - putting the mine farther afield and nearer the lowerdark might help with that. The ambient spawns can make travel to those areas nail-biting, and interesting.
Quote from: Letsplayforfun;385698Could be only a few mineable crystals in open field, but once you've mined one you can't mine any other on the same reset.
And located near a critter spawn point.
For reference, to others who may not be aware, the quest is already like this, in that you can only successfully mine one of the purple crystals in there.
I think the quest is in a fairly good place where it is. It offers very little EXP, which fits as it poses few risks, and has almost no monetary reward. When done with 2-3 people each person walks out with maybe 1-3 crystals, and often they are either weaker or thin, or dissipating and need to be used immediately. There is a very real chance you'll only get chips or shards, I have walked away more than a few times with nothing. So, it is not as if our cups runneth over with healing.
It prevents people from getting in a rut where they have to spend too many consumables to do fun quests/events, and allows everyone to be a bit more generous and helping each other out.
There are more crystals in town then I can imagine right now, would love to see it slowed, yeah.
Make these into areas various PC factions can fight over and claim and have these be an interesting part of the server as opposed to something people farm every reset for free healing. RwG had the right idea when he laid claim to this area and the sheer number of people he pissed off with it should show how much potential for conflict and RP exists here, in this Deathmine.
I think this quest is a necessary evil.
Although it hasn’t happened to me in a while, over the years of EfU I have at least a dozen times been ground down to zero resources. Once you have absolutely nothing, it is really hard to get back into the game. You tend not to be able to contribute to quests, die more often, etc. It is discouraging and frustrating when it happens. Having an out for this problem that doesn’t require constant DM inventory searching is a great idea.
If this QA needs a tweak, I would suggest that all the crystals there are dissipating, with no chance of a permanent drop. That way people wont do it for the chance of a permanent piece of loot.
Quote from: The Samophlange;385706I think the quest is in a fairly good place where it is. It offers very little EXP, which fits as it poses few risks, and has almost no monetary reward. When done with 2-3 people each person walks out with maybe 1-3 crystals, and often they are either weaker or thin, or dissipating and need to be used immediately. There is a very real chance you'll only get chips or shards, I have walked away more than a few times with nothing. So, it is not as if our cups runneth over with healing.
It prevents people from getting in a rut where they have to spend too many consumables to do fun quests/events, and allows everyone to be a bit more generous and helping each other out.
My thoughts are the same as this.
The first time I ever did this quest, five of us went in, and a dm spiced it so that there were far more enemies than normal, five or six times the amount, or so. This was awesome, and I had thought normal at the time. Though I could see why it doesn't happen all the time, that made the quest much more enjoyable, if difficult.
Though, I won't complain about extra healing, I end up using it fighting stuff much more difficult, and I'm horrible at hoarding.
Quote from: Bearic;385725The first time I ever did this quest, five of us went in, and a dm spiced it so that there were far more enemies than normal, five or six times the amount, or so. This was awesome, and I had thought normal at the time. Though I could see why it doesn't happen all the time, that made the quest much more enjoyable, if difficult.
Though, I won't complain about extra healing, I end up using it fighting stuff much more difficult, and I'm horrible at hoarding.
We were -so- close to dying.. Like all of us. Shit was scary.
I dont know about this. I often find myself in a situation where I have spent ALL MY HEALING. and the only (easy) way out of the hole, is by doing this quest. I see quests like this as a good way to "kickstart" a pc who struggles with the healing supplies.
Quote from: Disco;385731I dont know about this. I often find myself in a situation where I have spent ALL MY HEALING. and the only (easy) way out of the hole, is by doing this quest. I see quests like this as a good way to "kickstart" a pc who struggles with the healing supplies.
Yeah, I find that I often end up using just about all the crystals I find when I am out and about. It's very nice to have, and it helps me be able to keep the front liners alive which in turn keeps me alive.
Personally I don't usually bother with the quest on my character since.. I'm basically set for supplies. But there are a lot who aren't and to those the quest is good as it is!
Honestly wouldn't want it changed unless there was a viable alternative.
I don't think this quest should be changed simply because it's disrupting the immersion of characters who don't actually need what it's offering. If you find that your groups are splitting off into 2-3 man groups to do the quest, then that seems like a pretty good indication that your group should be doing a different quest.
This quest is for people who get stuck because of a lack of healing. It sort of defeats the purpose of having it at all if you're just going to ask the DMs to turn it into a powergamer obstacle course. All that will accomplish is putting it out of reach of the very players it is intended to serve.
I am perfectly fine with the way it is now.
If it has to be changed for the supposed better however, why not remove the QA drops or diminish them by a bit, and instead place a Dubious Dwarf Without Strong Opinions Towards Other Races Of Any Kind (or something more clever) outside, who hands out 1 medium crystal as a reward for every single quest participant?
I don't understand why it's such a big deal to split groups to do it. If anything the roleplay it encourages (people to 'guard' the dubious looking entrance, or the Cliffs, which are pretty much the best place for an ambush ever?) surely make it worth allowing anyway - even if it is a bit of a metagame and purists will dislike it being done.
It's a necessary evil as so many have said. The high level quests require a LOT of healing even if you are simply unlucky - and relying on luck in DnD is never a good thing. So having a simple, 2 minute quest like this just to stock up on healing to do the much more fun harder quests is worth it. And this is what it was intended for, right?
It would be nice if it scaled up the amount of healing with the number of people doing the quest. But otherwise I don't get the problem.
You will always have people complaining that there is not enough of this, or too much of that.
The purple crystal mine is not enjoyable, but it's made other parts of the game much more enjoyable for me. I used to avoid difficult quests and DM events like the plague because I would either run out of healing resources and die, or spend all of my healing resources keeping everyone alive. Since the introduction of the mine, I've been much more willing to stick my neck out.
If we are more in the mood of discussing this idea, I suggest that this thread should be placed in a discussion forum instead?
Regarding the crystals around the server, I think they actually were an improvement. Even if they were not ever mined by one of my PCs, they've brought to myself at least one big meaningful interaction. There is one in the Moldmire and because of that it had draw a necromancer to it with two undead minions, which forced my PC to act against it with Stinger.
So, I suggest more crystals like this to be placed around the groves of the server. Wildlings will probably try to protect them against defilers and they will attract people from the Sanctuary to the Groves.
I get and keep far more healing crystals from the other quests then this one. Whenever you're entirely out of healing, you're pretty much done. Climbing becomes lethal, and crit is the end of that session. You cant leave sanctuary, even being in a group is considerably less fun due to massive spike in risk.
I have never seen this quest give out broke amounts of healing, but really, if spamming it is a problem, make the randomization of the crystals count in a factor of the number of people that go into the mine.
Healing is a resource that isnt so much dictated by the relative challenge of an event, but more so dictating the length during which you can be active. So if you play for two hours a day, you might have extra, but if you get on that extended event that lasts 4-6 hours, that's game over if there isn't a supply on someone.
As others have said, it's a necessary evil. I wouldn't be against altering the location.
I honestly think the server is improved by its presence, even doing this quest I often find myself with less healing than when I went into the mine after exploring places I wouldn't have dared go to without that extra healing. Its a stepping stone for long adventures or tough quests that makes them more doable, and helps people feel more adventerous! Now without it would make a more hardcore feel, but we'd also see a lot less exploring imo.
I to, dislike the three man crystal squads, but the amount of healing gained from that quest is neither immense, nor lasting, and in some cases, very pathetic, it makes up for this with its easy opponent and easy access area. I'm a fan of the old duergar purple crystal mines quest, but- I am too a fan of this current quest as it opens a gate to many other adventures.
I guess I don't really see how this quest is a necessary evil.
All through EFU, EFUA, EFUM and most of EFUR we did not have a free healing "Get 'em while it's hot" quest. Sometimes you struggled, sometimes you died because you ran out of supplies.
Maybe I would feel different if the purple crystal mine *only* gave you dissipating crystals and not anything larger and sustainable that makes hitting the quest over and over while doing minimal risky things end up in piles and piles of crystals.
I do agree that there was probably too few ways to get healing trinkets prior to this quest so people could actually help and support each other; but maybe this is too far in the other direction.
Quote from: Vlaid;385814Maybe I would feel different if the purple crystal mine *only* gave you dissipating crystals and not anything larger and sustainable that makes hitting the quest over and over while doing minimal risky things end up in piles and piles of crystals.
I personally have no objection to this suggestion at all. Judging from what others have said, I'd guess a lot of people would feel the same way. It's supposed to be a kickstart, and that's what it should be used for.
I just get tired of nice things being nerfed / taken away because a minority of people are abusing them.
I agree
I thought I made it so it only gave dissipating crystals + chips/shards ages ago. I suppose there are still some mineable ones inside.
Quote from: Howland;385889I thought I made it so it only gave dissipating crystals + chips/shards ages ago. I suppose there are still some mineable ones inside.
It still spawns medium ones but they're very very rare in my experiences.
Quote from: Mortui;385892It still spawns medium ones but they're very very rare in my experiences.
I was finding 1-2 of them every trip or two. No idea how many of those were coming from the Mineable crystal (always seems to be at least one dwarf who has mining for it).
I go there most resets. Usually I find a handful of chips, a couple of thin/weaker and maybe one or two dissipating if im lucky.
I don't ever get any full mediums unless I mine it :/ and even with chars with 10 mining its not a sure thing.