Bludgeoning, Flame and Cold Arrows in stacks of 99.
Because 1-3 at a time is a pain to use and the Flame/cold arrows don't seem to stack in >10.
That's all.
Agreed, it's become a major pain in the ass for me to have more inventory slots than needed for much less than the space is worth.
I'm sure other archers feel the same.
Do it. Make 'em a hair rarer, and just do it. This is so simple it's not even funny.
I've always been a big fan of more nifty arrows. There are lots around. But more never hurts. Especially when you weigh in the big time buffs you can lay on melee weapons.
Sure, sure, melee users need said buffs because they are up front. So maybe you don't have 1d4 fire dmg/lvl or whatever. But plus 1 fire damage is still pretty sweet and you would think fairy common in setting.
Making them stackable, well, that's just obvious.
99 may be a bit much.
But 2s and 3s is frustratingly meh.
Maybe stacks of 20-50?
Quote from: Jayde Moon;11454299 may be a bit much.
But 2s and 3s is frustratingly meh.
Maybe stacks of 20-50?
Screw it, let us all just get vorpal death buttons. (Or I.W.I.N. Buttons, which ever.)
Er, 1 fire or cold damage isn't gamebreaking especially considering arrows with Negative and Divine Damage in stacks of 50 are common drops on a few quests.
@Panamalane: No, frontliners don't *need* damage buffs, they need defensive ones. Damage buffs are a bonus.
Ranged weapons do end up pretty weak compared to melee due to the low item power setting and lack of temporary upgrade buffs. Giving access to good size supplies of +dmg arrows would help, as you eat through those things, especially if you're a rapidshot build.
Hell, I'd say that bows and ammo should be vastly improved to make archers scary. When was the last time you saw someone afraid of a ranged weapon based PC? Or an archer win a duel?
QuoteHell, I'd say that bows and ammo should be vastly improved to make archers scary. When was the last time you saw someone afraid of a ranged weapon based PC? Or an archer win a duel?
Amen!! I rolled up a fighter who I styled as a sniper/hitman. He died painfull on a bugged wild orc quest, but that's not the point here. The point is he had every feat possible for the crossbow. WS Heavy Crossbow, PBS, Rapid Reload (which I later learned was pointless until level six) and Rapid Shot (Which just is pointless for a crossbow) My point is, ranged classes are underpowered.
Unfortunately...
Ranged classes have the advantage of fighting behind people with sixty-odd hit points. This means that, for balance purposes, they have to be somewhat weaker one-on-one. A hateful fact of life.
Ok, firstly this suggestion is now moot, because a certain quest now has boxes of ammo including good stashes of flame arrows. Kudos to the DMs on that.
Secondly, yes, ranged PCs are good in a team, but still less than effective in any 1 on 1 fight. I blame the low magic low level setting somewhat, as you can't really spec for bow and retain some closeup power, or multiclass enough to have a load of slowing spells.
They need some kind of short duration firepower or reserve they can pull out to be dangerous 1 on 1. Something to make a sniper attack a scary prospect. Anti-playerrace (but not monsterrace) AB bows, small but common stashes of very powerful ammunition (Onhit:Entangling or 1d6 elemental dmg, that sort of thing) to hoard for emergencies, etc. The ranged equivalent of Magic Weapon/Darkfire wands.
The Fickler Knives are incredible stuff, and I'd like to see more stuff like that that is worth hoarding for PVP, Badass Bosses and so on.
Agreed, in the 100 years of War, the French were (so I've heard) scared witless by English Longbowmen, that kind of terror needs to happen, and to be honest, it's hard to get that unless you're a L9 pure ranger or pure fighter with a min-max archery build with brilliant ammo and your targets at L5 or less. . .
Seriously, archers are underpowered, if you want to assassianate, you usually need to get in close with a *bleep*load of enchantments
Also, it seems that for most arrows, you can take Insulation + Blur and the archer won't hurt you, for PvE, that's fine, but in PvP it's just making an Archer some dead weight.
If I got my history right, the Englishmen deployed their longbowmen in an inverted wedge, with knights in the middle. The French knights would, bound of honour, charge towards the English knights, all riding through a gauntlet more or less, with the English firing hail after hail of arrows in a rain of them, killing them in great numbers. They weren't afraid because of a lone archer picking them off with a longbow, it was the massive amount of arrows raining down on a densely packed group, that made the difference.
the motto of this story is, GANKSQUADS.
What?
Maxon is right, I'm afraid. Masses of arrows inspired terror because of the widespread death.
I played an archer watchmen way back when Fawkes was sheriff in EFU..2 I think he was 2 fighter/5 rogue. Sneak attack w/a bow is devestating. Most maps let you get close enough for the sneak attack to trigger, and yet far enough to be out of most melee ranges. You do sacrifice dmg in close-combat, but as it should be..I could drop folks with moderate hp with one shot. I do not remember the specifics of the build, but being a successful archer was not at all hard. Maybe the mechanics have been changed since then. *shrugs*
There seems to be some kind of mistaken consensus here that a ranged character should be able to beat a melee character in a duel.
Quote from: ExileStrife;114738There seems to be some kind of mistaken consensus here that a ranged character should be able to beat a melee character in a duel.
Agreed. It's just, not possible.
Quote from: ExileStrife;114738There seems to be some kind of mistaken consensus here that a ranged character should be able to beat a melee character in a duel.
I think a lot of the people who give you that impression would be content with the idea that a ranged character should be able to have a chance against a melee character in a "duel" if the melee character had to start 200 yards away and close with the ranged character before he could attempt to hit him.
That's just a thought, though.
Or you give the archer the abilty to sumon bows like the one spell where you bring a animated knife to life and it would even the odds likt lev 1 /1bows lev 5/2bows lev 10/3bows
and thier you go archers will soon be alot more popular
Yeah. What Jayde said. In a one on one fight, a mage has a chance at range by blasting hold, blind and movement reduction spells. A meleer just closes. A cleric can do either. If you shoot, you've got nothing. Yes, sneaks are good, but that only works with rogue levels and IF the target is flat footed or fighting someone else.
And yes, you can tanglebag someone and plug away, but KD does the same thing for melee vs ranged and never runs out.
Example:
Two characters, PC A and PC B.
Both have 16 in their mainstat (STR or DEX) 12 in other one. Both are Level 6 Human Fighters with Weapon Spec and all appropriate feats (KD for spear, Rapidshot for bow etc), and both have access to devices or allies to deploy usual buffs. Any buffs that overlap are cancelled out. Both drink a Haste.
Both have a 1d8 Piercing dmg, 3x crits, 2handed weapon. A has a Spear, B has a Wild Orc Longbow.
They start at maximum possible bow range, and B gets initiative.
[hide= This is a bit long but works out the maths]PC A
Damage: 1d8 + 4 (Strength) +1 Magic Weapon + 1-2 (Bull's) + (1d4 + 2 or 3) Fire Dmg (Darkfire).
= 9-22 damage.
Attacks: 2/round,
max dmg/round: 18-44
DR countering: +1 AB, Blur DR is ignored.
Other: 20% conceal vs ranged only (entropic Shield).
PC B
Damage: 1d8+1 (Strength) +1 (Ammunition)
=3-12 damage (+1 in the round the spearman closes to 15 Feet)
Attacks: 2/round, or 3/round with Rapidshot at -2 AB
Max dmg/round: 6-24 or 9-36
DR countering: No way to beat Blur, so -5 to dmg.
Other: AoOs on the PC in melee, -2 to hit on a running target, and the target WILL be running in.[/hide]
Who's going to win that? And that's deliberately rigged to be as even as possible. Now imagine that A has a Greataxe. Or a shield. Or is using Expertise as he charges.
Then look from a gank perspective, with one attacking the other fully buffed from invis with whatever they like, and hitting with a KD/HP wand in the first round. Still comes down in spearman's favour, as the ranged weapon is slower, so someone will reach him likely.
Yes, a bowman as part of a team loaded out with snare devices of all forms can beat an opponent without taking a hit. Possibly. If they are using +1 Darts or a Goblin Shortbow to beat Blur, as Dispel might remove the slowing. But, nobody is ever scared of a single bowman, whereas a single meleer can pull out the intimidation.
I would extend the original suggestion to We Need Scary Ammo.
More ammo that can blind/entangle/Slow/hold/confuse/seriously screw up an oncoming adversary to give you a chance. And in sufficient quantities that you'll have good odds of scoring the effect on someone before you run out of ammo. We do have some +1d4 Acid arrow, but they only work on Good targets. More of these sort of thing please, for Evil and Neutral foes.
Apologies for length, but I seriously want to see sniper PCs with the intimidation factor in their field of PCs like de Sonac or Kriegan.
QuoteApologies for length, but I seriously want to see sniper PCs with the intimidation factor in their field of PCs like de Sonac or Kriegan.
I agree with you. I feel your dream. And let me tell you, with DM interaction, it is possible. However...
Take this into account. Two men stand forty paces away from you. You were just walking down the road, and suddenly they appear from a rocky outcropping. One man is dressed in darkish brown leather, studded here and there with small, metal discs. He carries a longbow, and has an arrow knocked. The other man id dressed in banded mail, the smallish metal plates glinting in the waning sun of the early evening. He wields a three and a half foot long blade, wickedly curved, with old bloodstains on the sides. Both men have fearsome expressions on their faces. Their intent is obviously to cause you harm.
Who do you pay the most attention to?
I would argue that Odysseus kicked some serious ass in a duel with over 100(?) suitors with his bow. In a sense doesn't the great Achilles also die to a bow shot in a duel? I think its totally reasonable for an archer to win a duel from time to time, but they never will.
Point being, if you're a crack shot, you're a force to be reckoned with, everywhere except in D&D.
That being said, I'm glad you guys are adding some more arrows into the game. And anyone who is discouraged with how their archer is performing should just go ahead and take some rogue levels. No one is going to bust your balls about it and it will make a difference.
That's due to the hp system. You'll never kill anyone but a lvl 2 in one shot, even if you pierce his heart (crit?).
To quote something my momma once told me,
"HP is da divvil!"
A side thought, making Arcane Archer easier to get might be a good start too, currently you need to take it at L8 as you need 6 AB AND arcane casting.
If the class was overhauled to be takeable at Level 5, reduce the power of Imbue Arrow, and maybe even remove the race restrictions, it'd really be something.
A high level Barbarian or Fighter focused on a melee weapon is scary. Any character even powerbuilt for a bow isn't. The only exception I can think of would be a 20 DEX Halfling Rogue/Sorc/Assassin dropping a Truestrike Point Blank Rapidshot Death Attack from 15 feet using Fickler Throwing Knives.
[goes off to write the app]
As a side note, that's why I wrote that Agent of Vengeance PrC idea. Death Attack on ranged weapons combines the neccessary snaring AND sneakattack in one, but it's Evil only. A Non-Evil ranged based PrC with Death Attack would be a good reason to Not Piss Off The Sniper.
Possibly a Sniper PrC with Death Attack, Enchant Arrow and Ki Damage>