Much like the withering system, I'd like to suggest a system for sanity. Aberrants play a major part in this setting, though as it stands I feel people go too eagerly into lower dark to the point of it being a gimmick. I'd suggest a point based system where delving into lower dark and constantly being surrounded by freaks slowly changes you, be it lowering your wisdom slowly and some other amusing effects. Maybe you start to go bug eyed, etc.
It would honestly give me a lot more respect for ordinants, because we all know as it stands you can just make a high saves character and everything is honkey dory.
I actually feel this would be a GREAT change. It would shine a bigger light on the Ordinants and what they do if they were some of the few people who could go down there and deal with it without just going completely insane or getting warped.
Love this idea. You could do a lot of cool, creative stuff with this too. Like what was done with the withering. Different monsters that affect your "sanity" in different ways.
I really dislike how people who aren't even ordinants, or oathsworn just traipse down into the Lower Dark with some zaney lulzy halfling with high saves or something and act like a hardass. Dealing with the Lower Dark should be about more than just having a high saves PC. Plainly - it should be terrifying no matter who you are but it is hard to portray that without just firing massive death saves at everything that goes down there.
Considering the number of creatures whose descriptions consist of some variant of 'your mind cannot make any sense of what you're seeing', I think something like this would be interesting. Perhaps Ordinants/oathsworn could have some kind of gear/loot that would make their minds a little more flexible when confronted with the impossible.
That's pretty inspiring actually. Setting up ways to linger in the shield and do black guild things as a lightly faster route to recovery. There would need to be a system in place to "regain" sanity in big chunks however, like the costly remove withering curse. I'd advise another spell be involved one way or another.
Although unlike the withering PHYSICAL changes, it would be different with sanity MENTAL changes. As that is entirely up to the player to role-play correctly. Unless like, there was boons to the penalties you acquire while nearly insane. Maybe holding torches having light sources helps.
With that in mind, I think the insanity should be reduced in various safe havens, or drop quicker within places such as the Inns <--Providing reward to get people into those places, and inspiring people to make performance characters to cater to the crowds. It also invites reason for adventures to return to these locations after a gruesome fight, leading to more post-adventure banter, which is a sweet thing.
I love this idea.
I like this, could make for some neat roleplay and status emotes similar to nightmares.
Clarity would be the perfect spell to counteract the insanity instead of remove curse, otherwise, awesome idea, yes!
Maybe have something involving divination to counter your madness? A good way to give strength back to the school really.
Suggested something similar to this to a DM a few months back. They brought up a point that too many people would roleplay their insanity in goofy ways. If this is still a concern maybe consider a "Despair" system. Where characters grow more and more cynical and disillusioned the more terrible things they see and experience. Could be counteracted with good food, drink, rest, leisurely things.
I'd rather not see Clarity hit anyone with an exp loss for casting it. Because its so important of a spell already. That being said, it really is the perfect choice, so long as it couldnt be spammed without cost.
Remove Fear perhaps?
I think this has potential and would be an excellent "perk" for the Ordinants and make them really stand out (presuming they would have some way to combat the "Insanity" effects) from the random adventurers.
Certain areas (that are natural and peaceful) could be made to slowly reverse the effects, perhaps the Hidden Pond.
You could have messages akin to the withering messages such as:
"You notice a flicker of movement in the darkness, and as you turn to look at it, you notice another where your eyes just were. You feel oppressive glares from the shadows but your certain they are empty, or are they?"
Or for a more physical change..
"You feel as if your stomach was lined with lumps. Eating heavy foods seems to leave you sickly and vomiting. Must be the worm soup."
I'm
incredibly leery of this idea. It's one of those things that sounds like it'd be brilliant on paper and in theory, but ends up being a drag in practice. I honestly don't think this would add very much to the server for the amount of work that might have to be put into implementing a system of this breadth. I didn't adore everything about the withering system and I think this is a vastly inferior idea.
A couple of major concerns:
- Team nature struggled the most with the withering because their access to cures was extremely limited compared to Mistlocke PC's and, worse yet, they were the ones most affected by the withering. This might not be a particularly huge issue if we apply sanity only to the Lowerdark, but nature already feels like the bastard redheaded stepchild of EFU:R in terms of item accessibility, interaction, systems, and mechanics, and I don't think this is going to help that state at all.
- Withering was a PHYSICAL manifestation that couldn't be ignored. It affected your humanity, it affected your ability to be in major centers, it made you a pariah in society. Whether you wanted to be affected by it or not, you had to deal with the consequences of your withering. Sanity is a mental thing that can be mostly ignored because there are no visible repercussions. In theory, this is a great idea because, "whoa! so much RP opportunity!" but I think the reality is going to be more akin to what we see with the nightmares. Awesome system. Well-written, immersive, and very relevant to the setting. How many people actually roleplay with them? How many people actually read them? How many people treat resting as anything other than throwing down a campfire and taking a look at your spellbook? I think a sanity system is going to suffer from a similar negligence.
- Even if sanity were to be implemented, it has to be implemented so that there are absolutely zero benefits to being insane and a great deal of significant minuses to losing sanity. Seeing excruciatingly withered people in EFU:M that drank as many withered potions as they could and happily ran around with their DI was a frustrating experience, because sometimes people simply didn't seem to care all that much.
Granted, I've never played an Ordinant, but I honestly just don't see how this benefits the server greatly enough to warrant being added.
You misunderstood me. I suppose I should have called it like aberrant touch system or something, I'm for the idea of people slowly being twisted into freaks from time spent near the void, etc. I want it to work near exactly the same as withering really, where by the end you are some glowing abortion that must be burned out if left untreated.
I think that, as a start, something like Old Stones curse could bring up the initial feeling you guys are seeking. Including that scary thing of scratching yourself.
It's a nice idea in concept. Such a thing could also persist through future chapters as well to add more of a damaging effect to certain experiences or to show the cost that some knowledge comes with. It would take a lot of time to create such a system but it could be worthwhile in the long run as a feature.
The problem is implementation and more than anything roleplay. If people are not interested in roleplaying that sort of stuff out without it being scripted in the first place then they won't if the effort is made to script it. I am afraid it'll just become a system that is gamed and mostly ignored like the withering. It might be better if when such a mentally traumatic situation is exposed to people the DM present makes it known and it is in the hands of the players to carry it out, and reward those who do well.
I personally am ALL for the descent into madness. It is one of my favorite themes, and a recurring one. Cthulhu tabletop game handled it decently enough. Rather than a broad systemized thing though I just think it would be better on an individual basis, with passive messages once in a while like the nightmares. Something that is specifically toggled by a DM as part of a plot they might be running. If it is too common it is a little trivialized and people will just be begging for and guzzling sanity cures trying to keep their sanity level high rather than really roleplaying it out. Withering all over again.
I like to play the occasional insane PC, and want to say that if you want your PC to go insane it should be a personal initiative.
"You hear someone speak your name brushing just against your ear, but when you turn there is only a mirror."
"A glove maker passes holding his bag under his arm. You swear you can see it squirm..."
"You glimpse a wall smeared with the orange stalks of a luxurious russet mold fungus, like the fur of something mythical."
"A Director walks past, towing along a child on a leash. Wait! You rub your eyes and realize it is only a clerk scribe."
Some of the maddened hallucinated visions of insanity I had prepared for the journal of a future character. I'm willing to share these few should they inspire anyone ^^
"The price that comes with knowledge"
Maybe we could add some important lore of the server that could be reached in Lowerdark through the contact with ancient scriptures, or devices, or artifacts or beings. To reach it you roll lore. To resist its secondary effects, you roll will.
There could be an extensive table with random things that could hit the character, giving them secondary things that would come out now and then through scripted emotes or even messages for the player.
"You see a dead adventurer, killed in a horrible way. The orange wool of the safety cloak so bright in the darkness. You blink. You focus your vision... it is just a patch of russet spores"
In my personal opinion, the Lower Dark should be a terrifying place and absolutely someplace I cringe to see lulzy halflings and others go to "adventure".
There would be no pressure to push this sort of thing on a PC if they simply avoid the Lower Dark, RPing what should be a healthy dose of fear.
Good suggestions, yes, and in some manner something we've wanted to add, but in different forms that didn't quite work as intended. Good ideas are always welcome and will help us think of other tests we can run for edited ideas. Unlikely that we add a wide system for it like withering, that does not quite make so much sense. Unlikely that it comes as you imagine it either, but something to the same effect when it comes to deeper darkness has always been what we wanted. Whether we make something appropriate to affect people, or when it comes, that's another matter. Anything that we would put in needs to have functions and standards we want.
Excellent idea. I would love this.
I'll be the naysayer then, just for the sake of argument.
Sanity system in a heroic fantasy world hasn't the same appeal as in Call of Chtulu, since abnormal things are part of day to day life. All adventurers would end up mad in no time which is silly.
It would also script-pressure people to change the way they want their pc to develop, which is demoralizing.
It's also a big hassle to script for something that is pure RP. If you want you pc to go slowly mad, just do so...
My 2c.
I'm gonna disagree wholesale with this. I personally feel it's up to the PCs to decide how they react to the horrors and trauma of the Underdark. It is something I feel PCs should wholly consider as a fair few people so flippantly treat the MOST ADDLED AND DANGEROUS AND HORRIFIC PLACE IN THE WORLD as a trip to pismo beach.
I'll keep my resistance to such notions IC but on the whole I think it's something PCs themselves need to do. A system isn't scripted for your PC to develop mental strains when you can just as easily implement it yourselves.
The Withering was something that PCs couldn't do to themselves.
Altering your PC's state of mind and RP due to experience has always fallen upon the onus of the Players.
the kind sanity system suggested here, obviously is not gonna happen.
What I was after is that I agree that going down deeper could very reasonably, perhaps, apply somekind penalties for longer time spend there, be it to saving throw or other thematical and mechanical sides, and those we've tested and I will investigate also in future.
Have people mutate if they stay down there too long and unprotected by say, some baublium fueled device...
I have to say, TERROR is something that only roleplay and good haunting ambiance can achieve. It isn't always easy to RP being afraid, just cause the area is a bit sandier. You can make the monsters harder, but that's still an ooc push, because IC you don't know you'll get slaughtered until you're probably already dead.
I like the idea of this, because, much like the withering, it creates a push and pull between the darkness and the light. the dread took over the world in about 30 days, that's a lot of enslaving. Maybe it wasnt all done directly, maybe they did it through some other strangeness.
Maybe it is not Sanity vs FEAR or INSANITY, but instead, Sanity vs Strange. I think that something on these lines could provide a great deal to the server. I never really liked always turning into an undead in mistlocke, and I'd probably not be wanting to always be strange either, but if it was a flow back and forth, the messages appearing like nightmares while you were awake. It would create a tangibility to the DARKNESS, that could be scary, risky, or otherwise--even if the area was empty.
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Even if this is dead in the water, I'll still tack this on:
You could always create themes that you choose from when you are hit with strange. Maybe there is a Nightmare, an Aberrant, a Death Fascination, a Panic, and a Numb path. Like a perk, but themes the words that come your way, that gives you a minor perk when faced by your thing. In this way a character can embrace a certain strangeness, and other "paths" can be unlocked specifically for certain factions. I dunno. It just seems like there could be hundreds of ways to implement this. Granted, it would take a good deal of time, and perhaps we're too far in now to really consider it.
ex:Aberrant: when you are being afflicted with strange you sometimes see them watching you, listening to your words, sneaking around you, murmuring into your ears. At first you cant make them out, but as you get stranger you hear them more. They tell you things, things you dont want to know, things you are afraid of. Maybe at the highest rankings, sometimes but rarely a random (themed) aberrant might spawn around you while in certain places. Small stat advantages and disadvantages, but too much strange (the highest level) and the really bad shit might come for you. Maybe you get a warning, *the sand rumbles*, a moment to FLEE, dunno.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;393323The Withering was something that PCs couldn't do to themselves.
People have never been good at role-playing what isn't there at all. Most need a prompt. If an area is scary, just sayign it is doesnt matter, just having spawns that kill everyone auto there is probably a bit too much like punishment. I feel that something subtle, not as OMG as the withering, but just something subtle would be really neat. Basically, something affecting your pc physically or mentally is still affecting them as an outside source. Maybe the changes are physical too?
I think that the people that has a bigger understanding of the scenery and of the canon stuff forget the little that some of us know regarding general aspects of foundation of the things.
I, for instance, did not imagine that the Lowerdark and its creatures could have such lasting effects upon someone's mind. I never thought of the idea of getting down the place and returning insane just out of fear of the strange.
So far, in my feelings, the place was just a really deep place with several alien creatures. It did not create any real sensation that we are trying to conceive here. Not because the design failed, I think, but because the design probably has as a need a minimal amount of knowledge of what you are dealing with and how dangerous it truly might be (to beyond the physical harm). The ignorance is a bliss, or a curse in the idea of collective story telling.
I have not read a lot on the illithid. I got close to no references of what Chuluthu (whatever it spells) might be other than an elephant with tentacles.
So, yes, the more you guys think it is into people's RP to bring out some things and that people might prefer to avoid them, there are some newbies that will need aid. Old Stones did it well to me, I think. Maybe they could be an inspiration as I sad. Maybe we could have now and then some sort of floating text upon our PCs heads giving hints of what is their mental state in the Lowerdark.
Some of us need more clues than the others. That is all.
I like the spirit of the original suggestion for sure and despite the issues brought up. Hopefully some sort of system can be created that reflects the intent of what the OP is trying to introduce here
We've all been raised by bard songs to believe that one day we'd become affluent Merchants, theater gods, heroes, kings, arch mages, Or even just live the simple life with a smiling women. We cant even work the jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. Instead the end happened so we We wont, and we are getting pissed off, and driven to insanity.
Instead the sun black, and abberations destroyed our homes, and our gods began to die. Brother was turned against brother as we were forced to murder eachother to survive, and those who were thralls. Some of us had to take the kitchen knife, and bring death to our former families who were enthralled, and trying to kill us. We see no hope in this insane world, and nothing to lose.
What we thought was once insane has become sane. If there was any age of the mad man we are living in it. Some of us wont be phazed by a certain area with what we have had to do to be alive for this long.
I vote for a Vitamin D deficiency system since no one is getting sun light. Maybe also a scurvy system since vitamin C is likely very rare now.
I had a very different idea for a sanity system. Dendar, the Elder Evil, the cause of bad nightmares is running lose, which is probably the cause of all of the terrible nightmares PCs have every time they sleep, right? If every time you sleep you have a horrible nightmare... that wears down on people. Screw the horrors of the lowerdark, what of the horrors inside of a mans own head? Has anyone had a regular good nights sleep for a whole week since the Darkening? I think a persistent sanity drain, representative of nightmares would be neat, not at all unlike the Withering, except instead of slowly becoming undead, we slowly become abberant horrors. Like the Withering, remove curse could help lessen the effects and some resting places might also help, say, sacred ground?