EFUPW Forums

Hello EFU world,

I'd like to openly discuss what I feel is a rather large setback in this setting and, with your help, possibly brainstorm for some ideas on how things might be redirected towards what I would consider better trends. We'll cover a few different topics here, and I hope that people can avoid short or pointless replies like "things are fine" or "this sucks, ugh change it", but rather offer some things of substance to their argument in whatever form they so feel appropriate. Let's begin -

QuoteThe supply level - It's well understood that EFU:M had what would be considered a "supply bloat". Potions were all over the place  and it was not uncommon for mechanically sound players to have large amounts of them at any point. The setting prior had somewhat less than EFU:M (EFU:A) and maintained a nice balance I believe, in general. I cannot fully comment upon the first origination of the underdark, but it appeared to be rather similar to our current situation (other factors, however, were different I think, and we'll discuss those below.

Overall, I feel as if the current setting is lacking in both amount and variety of supplies found. It relies far too much on an apparent emphasis on player trade and quite simply punishes those that desire to wander, explore, and seek as hobbies. This has caused a vastly reactive and frightened slew of characters, and while that itself is not an inappropriate thing, I feel like it -is- when created by a simple lack of something that should probably be somewhat more commonplace via npcs, treasures, etc.

My suggestions would be to -

 - Simply increase -and- add variety (many types of potions almost never appear in random loot tables anymore)  to "treasure" rewards all around. You will not be encroaching upon the world of bloat anytime soon, but instead will be allowing more exploration, questing, travel, wandering, and whatever else you might call things that are leaving the "haven". This itself creates more interaction, more proactive characters at earlier levels, and overall helps the world move without DM interaction. There is a huge amount of stuff out there to be discovered, and I've been fairly surprised by the amount of people telling me that they've never seen something before when I myself only recently returned.

- Alternatively, add in "random" merchants of the npc variety that sell potions, wands, scrolls, etc - Effectively custom shops with a pricing level at about double of the "standard" pc pricing level. NPC shops with other things in them / that buy things from players simply overcharge by a huge and stupid amount. They are never used and it is really a waste. These merchants could travel upper/lower/mur, possibly make sendings about their intention to trade at certain locations for said amount of time, etc. They could come and go just as the random areas might now, though obviously would want to be less secretive ( in general) than those. A few might send notice to pure rogues only, or to stewards only, but the point remains the same.

QuoteThe explore / random area system / exploration in general -

The explorable system was far more refined and appropriately rewarding in EFU:M, if not lacking in variety. The current setting has many, but half of them are empty, reward almost nothing and/or less than any optimal group might use, or are simply flavor. Beyond that, many of them no longer reward "end xp" as they utilize the same area (reasonable to restrict module size). (probably just some trigger issues)

I know that there are many, hundreds of them likely, but they are so rare compared to before (even if it had less unique random things). This, in my opinion, should really be a high priority. It once again allows for and promotes exploration, rewards people leaving the safe-haven, allows for unique lore / events , and none of it requires an active DM in game. Of course it is understood that these are always being added as possible, but they are -so powerful- in terms of promoting "active playing" I think.

Above all of that, it's simply fun to walk around the server and enjoy the risks, enjoy the areas, witness secret areas, but when it becomes a penalty to due so -every time- then it seems a bit counter-productive.

QuoteActive DMs - Well, a touchy subject but yet a vastly important one. Before going on, it's quite understood that it is an intrusive subject and one that is not easily or quickly solved, but nonetheless -

Using the eastern timezone as an example, it's become simply known that you cannot contact a DM from about 11pm - 5AM'ish in general/most nights. Whether it's a bug, a breach in rules, a question, or something I'd consider more important like plot involvement / movement, interactions with NPCs, PVP in npc areas or whatever else, it seems to have simply become 'common knowledge' that you'll need to wait around and try to match up your play-times with the few remaining active at current.

At any given point there are a slew of people loitering about in IRC wanting to play but unable to or not wanting to for said reasons. The efforts of those active currently is applauded and highly appreciated, but I feel as if the lack of active DMs is really hurting the server.

Personally I will say that I feel as if I simply cannot do anything very worthwhile at most points in my playtime. This does not mean that I NEED a DM to do this or that, to establish my character or push their goals, but it does mean that I am completely limited to being reactive, mostly, and unable to really reach for the most important movements of the server ICly.

QuoteFaction dynamic - Upper/lower relationship -


This is probably the largest thing that is either beyond my understanding or perhaps needs some adjustment. I'll first detail prior settings and then compare this one. We'll ignore the time-frame of things as it did not play a part for most aspects of this and/or simply transformed said area into another beast.

EFU:A -

Sons of Sabuth / Docks (mini factions within, slight conflict within)

Dominion ( Political base, factions within (nobles, pallid mask, etc) internal conflict and conflict with exterior factions

Nature - Stargazers and Stewards, two aspects of nature that had their own turmoils, and conflicted with other said factions.

Order - See above

Conclave - See above

EFU:M -

Mistlocke: An establishment based upon conflict with two primary families fueidng, and other minor factions + conflict within and with exterior.

Wyrm watchers

Order

Conclave

Sis Liman at points

Old Stones

Stewards / Stargazers

Above you see 4-7 active factions with differing agendas, viewpoints, and all conflicting in some form with all of the other factions. If we look at the current setting you have -

"Upper" - Society, Watchers, Auxiliary, Spellguard, Wayfinders - There is certainly conflict here, but it is based within a literal shield controlled by a lawful power.

"Lower" - Sojourners / Ascension cult (association I think?)

"Nature" - Transformed to association, no longer a "major" faction

It appears to me from this viewpoint (my own of course) and from my in-game experiences that the world has been highly condensed, pressed inwards in what I'd call an archaic movement against expansion that seemed to arrive in the late efu:a stages. The term "sandbox" used to be a thing, but the walls and size of that sandbox have been collapsed inward so greatly that I feel as if conflict itself has been highly restricted.

The lair system puts a little life back into this idea, but overall the design of the setting, in terms of innate faction conflict,  appears to be less intricate or thought out, yet maybe far easier to manage. I don't have any real ideas here that aren't widely opposed, so my IRC babbling tells me, but I'll toss them out all the same -

- Most importantly, restore some prominence to the nature faction
- Steer the Society away from the upper/lower conflict and allow them to be their own potent entity not positioned directly within either area
- Establish some life into "lower". The feel of a broken down shanty town oppressed by upper gassing exists, but maybe there should be something more standout and prominent down there that lends some reason to it not simply being another enforced area of upper minus the "plot-shield" effect. What I mean is that in current form it really does not make sense, and even new changes in the module (canal ward) mostly surround it while it remains "immune" to upper law / rule for what seems to be no reason. Whether it is a large increase in Sojourner presence, or the presence of something else, Sanctuary -appears- far too small for this "slums" area to simply exist without much influence.

In the most basic and short statement I can make to summarize this, I feel as if it would be great if more people were able to fully experience the setting / world we play in. It is an amazing creation with so many secrets, so much lore, and so many plots. Sadly I feel as if many are missing out on their own potential or their own enjoyment due to certain restrictions, beliefs, or a lack of possible support for their faction/agenda.

- Pudding

I agree to all of this tbh! One of the saddest facts of efu now is I can't make a character and enjoy all the quests out there. You are ao much more hindered now than before if you don't play all day.

A nice, balanced thread. Good work, VP.

Let me try and address some of your thoughts here.

Quote from: Supply LevelOverall, I feel as if the current setting is lacking in both amount and variety of supplies found. It relies far too much on an apparent emphasis on player trade and quite simply punishes those that desire to wander, explore, and seek as hobbies. This has caused a vastly reactive and frightened slew of characters, and while that itself is not an inappropriate thing, I feel like it -is- when created by a simple lack of something that should probably be somewhat more commonplace via npcs, treasures, etc.

The supply level is something that is always being considered by DMs, and trying to hit that happy medium is really difficult. Just increasing the number of potion drops etc. doesn't serve the cause, as it will always reward those people who do nothing but hit quests and log off. Personally (and I have played several PCs in the current setting) I did not find it that difficult to find supplies; gold is plentiful, and player trade I think is a great thing. In EFU1, player trade was big business and I think it needs to remain that way. However, know that there are certainly other places where you can find (cheaper) NPC potions.

What I think I do agree with in this point is the variety of supplies available that are found. Interesting charge items, etc.

Though, the play style for EFUR is entirely different than it was before. Healing kits are now more prominent and one of the best ways to keep your HP up (at least whilst exploring/in between fights).

Quote from: DMsActive DMs - Well, a touchy subject but yet a vastly important one. Before going on, it's quite understood that it is an intrusive subject and one that is not easily or quickly solved, but nonetheless -

Using the eastern timezone as an example, it's become simply known that you cannot contact a DM from about 11pm - 5AM'ish in general/most nights. Whether it's a bug, a breach in rules, a question, or something I'd consider more important like plot involvement / movement, interactions with NPCs, PVP in npc areas or whatever else, it seems to have simply become 'common knowledge' that you'll need to wait around and try to match up your play-times with the few remaining active at current.

At any given point there are a slew of people loitering about in IRC wanting to play but unable to or not wanting to for said reasons. The efforts of those active currently is applauded and highly appreciated, but I feel as if the lack of active DMs is really hurting the server.

Personally I will say that I feel as if I simply cannot do anything very worthwhile at most points in my playtime. This does not mean that I NEED a DM to do this or that, to establish my character or push their goals, but it does mean that I am completely limited to being reactive, mostly, and unable to really reach for the most important movements of the server ICly.

This is certainly an issue. Especially in the timezone that you are talking about. The majority of our DMs are now Euro based. Know that we're always looking for DMs. Expect some movement in this area sometime soon.

Quote from: ExploresThe explorable system was far more refined and appropriately rewarding in EFU:M, if not lacking in variety. The current setting has many, but half of them are empty, reward almost nothing and/or less than any optimal group might use, or are simply flavor. Beyond that, many of them no longer reward "end xp" as they utilize the same area (reasonable to restrict module size). (probably just some trigger issues)

The amount of explores I've found when wandering is certainly more - I haven't had your experience with this, in not finding them. Every area should reward a certain amount of experience (at the 'end of the zone') generally, rather than on entry. This may be a bug and will be investigated. The variety of explore areas is always being expanded. It's one of the most worked on parts of the module; for instance, the addition of explore area QAs. This is one area of building that a savvy player might throw an idea or two our way for use.

Quote from: Faction DynamicThe lair system puts a little life back into this idea, but overall the design of the setting, in terms of innate faction conflict, appears to be less intricate or thought out, yet maybe far easier to manage. I don't have any real ideas here that aren't widely opposed, so my IRC babbling tells me, but I'll toss them out all the same

I disagree with the suggestion that the current faction dynamic is 'less intricate'. In fact, the issue here may be that it is more intricate and therefore perhaps less understood by the playerbase. That definitely is an issue and we can discuss this.

That you have lumped together 'Upper' as one big happy family concerns me greatly and although there are times when it seems everyone is far too friendly to each other (note, players - insert some dynamic conflict here...) I have seen some of the best conflict erupting between Society/SG and Watchers/Auxiliary and SG/Directorate and anything in between. Things certainly are quieter, that I will concede, and perhaps it is something we can work to change, direction from above or what have you (something I really don't like - players should just do something and reap the consequences without fear of OOC reprisal, or anything.)

Lower/Upper - The conflict here tends to be quite stupid. Lower people mug Upper people. Upper people chase to Lower don't go in because ???

We certainly need to break down the borders here. The Red vs. Blue mentality detracts from the nature of what we're trying to achieve. Just because a savvy Inspector can't wear his uniform in Lower for fear of being lynched, doesn't mean he can't scootch around sneakily. Again, the intricate nature of the conflict is perhaps not that well understood and we've fallen back into the good ol' head bashin' two sided conflict - this sucks, I agree.

Though, with the introduction of the new gangs to the area, the Canal Ward slowly building, the lines, I hope, will be blurred.

I know I haven't answered every single one of your points, but I think I've done a good job of answering some of them. You certainly make some good points and we will certainly be exploring the possibilities.

Thanks

EFU DM

Having access to seeing character's inventories, I can not possibly agree that EFU:R is "under-supplied." Unlike EFU:A/M, certainly you may not be able to readily get a complete suite of PvP potions from monsters alone, but myself and (I believe) other Dms really prefer that. Certainly the PvP experience benefits from the variables and complexities associated with using the right potions at the right time, but it's far more interesting in EFU:R where it's not so simple as to simply chug the right order of speed/displacement/buffs/bless/aid/divine favor with the occasional absurdly powerful potion mixed in. The most interesting, scrappy, desperate, fun PvP that I have ever witnessed in NWN, with PCs digging in their pack for anything of use, has absolutely been in EFU:R.

I also vigorously reject the notion that mega-supplies are required for the EFU:R quests or to explore EFU:R areas. It's simply not remotely true. Now it may well be that there are many players who don't often leave the confines of Upper Sanctuary, but there is absolutely no mechanical thing preventing them from doing so. There are many characters who live completely outside of settled areas and seem to do fine.

Most of EFU:M's exploreables were "meatier" with many of them being highly rewarding (crates filled with high level potions at the end). EFU:R exploreables are more diverse, with it certainly being true that few are super rewarding and many are very small/flavorful. There are a lot more though, and I think they spawn fairly frequently - my preference in their design to have many, avoiding a sense of repetition, with the occasional epic one being a nice surprise when they are stumbled upon. There are six or so entire (highly rewarding) quests buried in exploreables, and others that are very lengthy and meaty. I am trying to build more though, certainly. When we reach a point where we have enough that they don't feel repetitive, perhaps we could look into increasing the rate by which they spawn.

Active DMs - you're absolutely right, this is a real problem. We're absolutely on the look-out for the sweet-spot of players who are: (1) 100% trusted by the DM staff, (2) Share the same vision for EFU, (3) Are likely to actually enjoy DM'ing and not prefer just playing (a hard one), (4) Have an interest or ability to positively be contributing in some way. Genuinely enthusiastic candidates are more than welcome to express an interest in DM'ing here (http://www.efupw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=161) and also read this post, noticing the edit (http://www.efupw.com/forums/announcement.php?a=3).

The Stewards is still a minor DM faction. What we did was to add an association base beneath it so nature-oriented characters could join and be a part of that scene, without necessarily having to be inducted as a full-time Steward (with the duties and secrets associated). We made it easier to be a part of nature.

Of course, this also requires those already in the faction/association to be ready to welcome new members.

For Lower, alongside the gangs that you can help support with your concepts, you have also the associations of the Scrapper Cooperative and the Harbingers of Doom.

Quote from: Halfbrood;409644A nice, balanced thread. Good work, VP.

Agreed.

QuoteThat you have lumped together 'Upper' as one big happy family concerns me greatly and although there are times when it seems everyone is far too friendly to each other (note, players - insert some dynamic conflict here...) I have seen some of the best conflict erupting between Society/SG and Watchers/Auxiliary and SG/Directorate and anything in between.

I have been part of that conflict from several angles. I suspect that one reason this 'lumping' happens is that it is not as obvious from the outside as it could be. I have seen Spellguard and Watchers in protracted political struggles and on occasion Society and Watchers in outright combat. I would call an Ordinant assaulting a Director in the middle of the House of Governance a fairly good example of something you could call 'conflict.' It's there and sometimes it is more political and manipulative than physical but I would say that if Upper is a family, it is a violently dysfunctional and more than a little psychotic one.

QuoteThings certainly are quieter, that I will concede, and perhaps it is something we can work to change, direction from above or what have you (something I really don't like - players should just do something and reap the consequences without fear of OOC reprisal, or anything.)

Hm. I am trying to be true to my character and still increase conflict from some angles at least. I mostly work politics, I admit. Maybe I am not doing enough. I'll have to think about that. :/

I'll add my two cents, from my own experience.

Quote from: "Supply Bloat"Overall, I feel as if the current setting is lacking in both amount and variety of supplies found. It relies far too much on an apparent emphasis on player trade and quite simply punishes those that desire to wander, explore, and seek as hobbies. This has caused a vastly reactive and frightened slew of characters, and while that itself is not an inappropriate thing, I feel like it -is- when created by a simple lack of something that should probably be somewhat more commonplace via npcs, treasures, etc.

I admit, wanderer's, hermits, and other pc's who don't interact with a large variety of people and as such quest uncommonly, usually have less supplies, but by no means is it "Lacking in amount", and dm's work to spread variety, though they are few and far between. on my watcher, I have seen "Criminals" ( A.K.A Muggers, bandits, necromancers, etc. ) with at least 2-3 bags of potions, some more or less, which while yeah in a pvp situation with dispels flying everywhere, that might not last long, its certainly enough that it doesn't need a huge boost.

One other thing of note as to the amount of supplies: I know of at least one quest, open to all players ,( some concepts may not be able to, however) that gives successful parties /tons/ of standard potions, bulls, blur, and so forth. If you feel as if the current level is not enough, try going out of the normal quests crushing goblins or kobolds. ( while yeah, these are good quests they are done so much they are less-rewarding then say, more difficult quests like the Seers )

 As to Random Exploration area's, I have seen places with no XP, or only one loot item for no risk for only specific class' to be able to access, and these explorables are few and far between for pc's who do not actively live in the wilds 24/7. On a pc who wanders the wilds constantly, I have seen roughly 2-3 "Tunnel" explorables, and often 1-2 "bodies" or "Dropped bags", each usually having some form of loot that's usually awesome for the risk and rewarding for going out there. If there's no loot, either 1: Someone Ninja looted the area, and there are steps being taken to see this does not happen, or 2: The creatures respawned, also being fixed.

As to Active DM's, yes, I have noticed that recently there have been less than there were during the summer, but unless there is someone looking to help that is good for the timing, it is what it is, for now.

As to faction dynamics, Yes, the "Nature" team took a big hit, and has been building up slowly, and has become less prominent than it was before, from what I have seen. However, the "Upper / lower" conflict is more of two titanic forces struggling for dominance, anything and anyone who's not on one side or the other being crushed between them. As to "Upper" conflict, it's less of direct fighting or showing of force, and more of a political  / authoritative struggle for dominance, where both sides are forced to act behind the scenes to further their agenda's so that they are not called out ICly and take the consequences there in, without some good investigation, and players who are not a part of these factions (Wayfinders ( Higher ups, normal way finders will probably not notice this) , Spellguard / Auxiliary, watchers, or "Government" ) will likely not notice this struggle unless it boils over into a direct fight, and thus some may think "One big happy family".

As to "lower" conflict, yes, as of late the factions of lower have greatly decreased, with the Sojourners being the main one currently, where as a few months ago, there were harbingers, scrappers, hounds, sojourners, and the normal outlaws v. Watchers and Spellguard with the occasional upper citizen joining in. This was a lot of fun, until the tides changed as the vast majority of "lower" pc's died / retired, and then the vast majority of those players went to upper, creating conflict up there while the upper / lower conflict died down.

Yes, it may be a bit more behind the scenes and drawn out than previous chapters, but by no means is it less intricate.


As to Halfbroods statement,

Quote from: Lower/Upper - The conflict here tends to be quite stupid. Lower people mug Upper people. Upper people chase to Lower don't go in because ???

The "main" Lower, which connects the crone / temples / fortress, is seen as the equivalent to freedom square of upper. While you /can/ get a dm to oversee heading down there, /having/ to get a dm for every instance ( at least to my understanding ) to head down there discourages faction members from upper from going down there period, and while yes, nothing may happen if your smart, the fact that theres a ton of lowers folk down there ready to fight is usually more threatening than one scummy bandit. It's like chasing a watcher into upper, its something you don't do without a good deal of planning / preparation / back up. Yes, the recent additions of "new" gangs such as the Scar hides and Azuul dwarves has added a bit more complexity, it does blur the lines somewhat.

Just my two cents as to this.

For what it's worth, I had been working on some stuff for Lower a while ago but had to put it on hold due to IRL concerns.  There will certainly be things going on there in the very near future.

Quote from: Halfbrood;409644That you have lumped together 'Upper' as one big happy family concerns me greatly and although there are times when it seems everyone is far too friendly to each other (note, players - insert some dynamic conflict here...) I have seen some of the best conflict erupting between Society/SG and Watchers/Auxiliary and SG/Directorate and anything in between. Things certainly are quieter, that I will concede, and perhaps it is something we can work to change, direction from above or what have you (something I really don't like - players should just do something and reap the consequences without fear of OOC reprisal, or anything.)

The root of this sort of lends itself back to the Revolutionary plot, and the problems it created. It created a sort of unified Upper presence from the Prefects, Watchers, Spellguard, and Society, and that is a difficult bloc to break up.

I mean I totally understand why it's that way, too. When there is an enemy outside, it is far more sensible to work together to deal with it. As an example, for my own retired Watcher, who should she hate more? The Lowersman mugging and killling people, or the Auxiliary trying to infringe on her authorities?

It also seems to me like DMs are quite eager to use high ranking NPCs to smooth over intra-faction conflict within Upper. It wasn't quite this way before, but I have seen a bit of it during my time in Upper with Elaine, Mari, and Prisca.

It makes it difficult (if not impossible) to pull off 'big moves' that have sort of defined the experience of Upper for me in EFU, like the Liruwen trial, when Vlaid and I schemed to put Abala on trial and so on.

Quote from: Halfbrood;409644Lower/Upper - The conflict here tends to be quite stupid. Lower people mug Upper people. Upper people chase to Lower don't go in because ???

We certainly need to break down the borders here. The Red vs. Blue mentality detracts from the nature of what we're trying to achieve. Just because a savvy Inspector can't wear his uniform in Lower for fear of being lynched, doesn't mean he can't scootch around sneakily. Again, the intricate nature of the conflict is perhaps not that well understood and we've fallen back into the good ol' head bashin' two sided conflict - this sucks, I agree.

Though, with the introduction of the new gangs to the area, the Canal Ward slowly building, the lines, I hope, will be blurred.

There also lies an issue in that Lower is just too small, from a player-base standpoint, to really sustain any conflict within itself. That is why it oft becomes Red vs Blue, Lower v Upper, because people have to work together on some level to either get levels or supplies, and in Lower your choices are quite limited. It's the opposite problem that Upper Sanctuary has. Unlimited freedom, no numbers.

How one would fix that, I have truly no idea.

Overall a lot of awesome input.

As most people know I've bounced around a lot of the factions so I feel that's the best place to chime in.

In my personal experience (Again I play EFU differently from most people) I fundamentally believe that driving forces of Factions when it comes down to it,  it isn't on the DM side of things but the player side of things. One instance in particular I'll reference is the situation of the Withered in Sanctuary. People liked in IRC to hue hue about my time in the Spellguard because my PC was a cranky hermit "Why doens't rufus ever do anything". but for all the OOC mockery I like to think I and others did as we could to keep things interesting.

This came down to two factors: Risk vs. Reward.

[indent]1) I love conflict. Not everyone does but I thrive on it. It's an OOC enjoyment I find in few places on the server to be in a situation where the entire deck is stacked against me, things get tense, I get nervous, but that nervousness turns into excitement.

Director Abala Quickfeet came to me and said "We need to exile the Withered". Instead of hemming and hawing and worming about worrying what the Spellguard NPCs may say or waiting for Operative Miller's oversight I simply said "Sure, about time we did something". The result was a 8-9 month old incident I quickly researched on our forums in which the Withered who first arrived to EFU:r were quarantined and then exiled.

After we raised the alarm of exile a group of high level PCs of various withered status took hold in the House of Governance and refused to leave. As a result we did the unthinkable- And dropped a Quarantine on  the House of Governance. We informed the DMs overseeing it that some big things were going to pop off if they were available. We made a few sendings about how citizens who did not wish to be locked in departed, and there was a shout of people fleeing the House of Governance but a number of prominent die hards remaining.

We even formed a six person "Picket line" quarantine outside the House of Governance that few people were able to see from the inside, but we all stood there nervous that they were going to charge out and obliterate us while we waited for PC or NPC reinforcements.

For those of you who can't read minds this is the point where Abala and I lost our fucking minds OOCly. We just challenged the entire upper playerbase, from Directors to Sergeants to Ordinants and onward. Things were tense, they were hectic, and if even one person chose to say "No, forget this" and attack us the entire mob would have throttled us.

2) The risk is pretty obvious. There's a lot of detrimental matters for a PC's career, a PC's health, a PC's undertakings and more to step beyond what is expected to stir things up. At any singular moment an NPC could have showed up and just obliterated us for attempting to exile a Director, Sergeant, Ordinant, Wayfinders, and may others as an abuse of power.  The PCs could have also simply walked out and beat our teeth in and even attempted to Kill us if they felt threatened enough.

For that instant and countless other similar incidents I was receiving pretty palpably terrifying letters and meetings from the Spellguard NPCs in which various NPCs were expressing their dismay in the way in which my PC was handling the public.

The reward though outweighed those risks and thanks to Abala prompting me to act it was one of my singularly favorite moments of EFU:R since the Liruwen trial and the raid by the Ascension on Freedom Square. In the aftermath for both situations I and the PCs involved were joking about how fucking terrified we were, how amazed we were we survived that ordeal, how awesome it was to see tension so high in upper sanctuary, and how we were like shaking from the adrenaline of the high danger situation. To me that's a pretty huge reward.[/indent]

Now this isn't a post to be self aggrandizing but to show PCs that even within factions you CANNOT BE AFRAID to push the boundaries and stick true to your PC. My Spellguard Agent wasn't LE. He was NE. Everyone involved in the withering trip above were his political foes I had long been fighting against. A number of prominent non-humans in government postiions and so on.  I skirted the law fairly blase on many occasions but in this point I had a Director backing me so I figured it was time to roll the dice against the wishes of my Superiors.

A large matter of going against the grain of DM factions is that DMs have the tendency to bring hammers down on people who step out of line. In many cases that's quite understandable, agreeable, and quite acceptable. In my time on EFU I've had a Lord of the Dominion who was stripped of power and exiled for attempting to steal control of the local militia and thrown out of power.

The largest point I'm trying to make though is that in all of these actions shared above it wasn't DM prompted. Abala and I decided to make a dangerous move against our political foes. Balfour and I decided to make a dangerous move against Liruwen's position as Prefect and the umbrella of her cohort as a means to lure the Ascension into action. Previously they had covered their tracks pretty well. After their attack they were exiles and we were vindicated.

At no time did a DM come forward to prompt either of these actions and that's why I think they're so uniquely cool to my experience on EFU.

I know that it can be scary when DMs in a faction come out and threaten your PC. I've faced it more than anyone. At the end of the day though I play EFU for me and a few buddies to make big moves, run around in the chaos, and more often than not lose in the aftermath feeling like we've both had fun and brought something cool to the server.

If you think something is legitimately cool, and fits your character, you must not let the fact an NPC may send you an angry letter or a DM will possess an NPC to shout "WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING!?" and threaten to kill you, throw you out, or otherwise shift how you are telling your story.

If you do that you'll find yourself paralyzed in a faction, and as a result idiots in #EFU will yuck it up about how your PC never does anything. Because frankly I play PCs for those reflective moments where I and a few people talk about how intense something was, not to keep NPCs happy.

It's cost me a lot of characters over the years but I feel it's a fair sacrifice for those few moments of pure distilled awesome.

Just from reading the forum and asking -- I find the character interactions in the diverse factions that we currently have very interesting.

Thank you to the current directors, they really feel as being REAL people with agendas in Sanctuary to promote and do not feel like artificial 'opposition' to create 'conflict'. At least from what I read in my very very rare spare time.

This kind of political base hasn't been seen in a long long time, not EFU:M, not EFU:A ... Very cool.


I wish I had time to design and help the module.

We are happy to improve, and we constantly do improve the setting to better strive for things if we know something is lacking. These changes can't happen over night though, and we try to make them happen with some options, through player choices and actions.

We also improve factions, associations and everything as we can. We will happily take good suggestions and structured ideas as well, and will try our very best to implement them over time. DM activity has always been on our target for this past year already, it's just never an easy thing to rectify or simply fix.

I do have to say that indeed, players are what draw DM interest to make changes. We do try to play NPC, and the NPC as characters will at times push against players. It's because they are such persons. Even if NPC may push against you, it doesn't mean you should falter necessarily. There maybe consequences with NPC in power, if you go against them, but would you stop if another player character pushes against you? Often not. Don't do it necessarily with NPC either. I totally understand there is DM behind it, and it may have consequences, but mainly we play them as characters. You can do go with it, against it, you can try to backstab them... What ever. We may not make it easy but surely are expecting any and all responses, and sometimes even want them.

I disagree entirely with the complaints about Upper, common as they seem to be among some players on the server. I don't think that the factions are at all too "friendly" with one another, unless one interprets "friendly" as a lack of PvP, which I hardly think is the end-all-be-all of actual conflict in the first place. Yes, the factions do have some onus upon them to cooperate with one another. That does not discourage conflict in the least. To use a recent example- Gwendolen Sumner (SG) and Ksenia Foltyn (Watchers) absolutely hated one another and were constantly taking little moves against each other, it was an awesome conflict to watch - even though they would do things like work together against Marge, that did not prevent conflict in the slightest.

The server absolutely needs more DMs.

Quote from: Random_White_Guy;409675In the aftermath for both situations I and the PCs involved were joking about how fucking terrified we were, how amazed we were we survived that ordeal, how awesome it was to see tension so high in upper sanctuary, and how we were like shaking from the adrenaline of the high danger situation. To me that's a pretty huge reward.

It is also one that has kept paying dividends. This was the defining incident in Chimaera's existence as a PC. Abala and Rufus became her mortal enemies and she started schemes to bring both down not long after. Rufus dying on his own partly stymied me but I shrugged and have been chipping at Abala's power ever since. I cannot express how grateful I am to Hachenheim and RwG for pulling this one off.

QuoteNow this isn't a post to be self aggrandizing but to show PCs that even within factions you CANNOT BE AFRAID to push the boundaries and stick true to your PC.

And yet when I did exactly that on Thessaly and deliberately worked to undermine the arrest quota you talked me out of doing it, you cad! :P

(Just kidding. It was to your advantage and it was a fair cop -- figuratively, at least.)

~tOH.

I can't comment on anything except the lack of DM presence, which definitely can limit spontaneous proactivity. One thing I have found useful before when things went down in my phantom GMT+10 timezone, is the forum function where you can post screenshots and write a quick description/update of IG events. This way you're signalling to the DMs that you mean business, and when the DMs have the opportunity to do so, they're far more likely to take an individual interest in what your PC is up to.

Over the years I've noted that more than any other factor, the biggest impediment to an exciting EFU atmosphere is players unwilling to take serious risks. Over-attachment to characters will always generate stagnation, the reactive mindset that strangles fun before it happens and drives DMs into retirement.

Even if you failed utterly in whatever you tried to do, at least you moved on it. DMs always notice and always enjoy that. If you are consistently doing this, and staying in good humour without succumbing to bitterness about losses suffered along the way, you can build a kind of momentum that can be surfed between characters - recurrent failure notwithstanding!

Ultimately the pinnacles and depths of EFU's high and low cycles have always been determined by the players. I'm not disagreeing with any point that's been raised. I'm only reminding everyone that if the dust looks like it's well settled, it's time to stir it up again.

The player groups and just characters living completely outside Sanctuary are very proactive and fun. Its not hard to explore with others just go on one of the many quests while you do it and you’ll likely find supplies. Exploring shouldn’t be easy though for city slickers, its more just about knowledge of the land than anything. I think its just a Sanctuary problem, its like being stuck in a bubble.

A group of 3 can explore anywhere really and require little more than healing supplies which are easy to find on quests. None of my characters so far buy much from merchants other than healing kits. A mass of supplies aren't that necessary beyond what you get off quests.

This is a complicated issue and I dont have enough experience to weigh in right now, but I have a thought related to Lower.

I think one reason we get slow activity at times in Lower is because the "quest train' in Upper is leaving the station at all hours while in Lower during off hours, you are likely to be alone.

One possible reason is the sending system. As far as I know the system in Lower is only available to rogues of lvl 5 or higher. These messenger girls sendings use the Upper system in a way so they go far and wide.

What about a sending system, much more primitive, for Lower only that anyone can access? The sendings would only go throughout the areas around Lower. Maybe it's just little homeless urchins running around telling everyone, or something.

Amused that the OP and nobody since has mentioned the Scriveners. While the other factions of Upper being against each other and all is something that gets argued, everyone implicitly acknowledges Scrivener irrelevance.

Quote from: Tratzell;412357Amused that the OP and nobody since has mentioned the Scriveners. While the other factions of Upper being against each other and all is something that gets argued, everyone implicitly acknowledges Scrivener irrelevance.

They are as irrelevant as you want them to be... why does no one realize the whole fucking awesome you can do in the Mausoleum? It takes something called creativity.

I meant to post a small paragraph about sendings and I started ranting, so:

I've found that the lack of a sending system for non-nature, non-Sanctuary people is sometimes extremely conducive towards OOCly arranged meetings and a clique environment that ostracizes new players and those who aren't in on the current criminal going-ons. Despite having a sending system in Lower, it's highly restrictive and only accessible by a small portion of the server, save for those who are willing to go to great expense to make restricted sendings.

From my perspective, Sanctuary has always felt like a stiflingly convenient hub for EFU:R. It's shielded from enemies and threats, it seems to have the most accessible and easy low-level questing experience [SIZE="1"](although I've noticed that the amount of lower level quests in Lower has skyrocketed since the onset of the server)[/SIZE], and it literally sits as the geographic and societal center of the server. The very law-driven, anti-dissident urban nature of Sanctuary makes it a place for people to stew and ultimately outright avoid or at the very least skirt around most types of conflict -- most prominently, anything that revolves around PvP. This is especially the case during American nights, where the prospect of PvP around NPC's disappears when Caster goes to bed, assuming he has time to be online at such hours in the first place.

Sanctuary is just very safe, and sometimes I feel like the way it has been designed leads towards players becoming too comfortable with the status quo, too scared to go against the grain, and far too disinterested in stirring things up, whether they do so in the Sanctuary proper or on the other, less populated, and significantly less safe parts of the server. Going outside the norm in or out of Sanctuary is made a bit more difficult based on my above point about sendings; sometimes, information is difficult to spread around, and the intricacies of character interactions make it hard to trust that the seedy group on the outskirts of civilization is welcoming you with open arms rather than trying to trick your established PC into something nefarious.

The result seems to be a cycle where a "big bad" group surfaces every once in a while. Two, three, maybe four players get together and decide that they want to do something different. They unabashedly butt heads with Sanctuary and other parts of the server, disrupting the flow of things with a variety of methods and things eventually escalate into violence (PvP). The server seems to come together against this group, with sub-factions either taking up hostilities or standing aside neutrally and not getting involved in any confrontational antics. Then, inevitably, this group is squashed and the server waits a few weeks until the next one comes into the forefront.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and perhaps I just haven't experienced or seen enough of the server to know any better, but this seems to be the pattern that large scale conflict has taken to on the server. EFU:R lacks dynamism for me. Call it nostalgia, but the associations and factions in EFU:M seemed much more dynamic. Even if the factions were working together in some capacity (certainly all of them were fighting against H'bala and the Withering), any alliances were very tenuous and prone to any number of open conflicts in a given week. Nature had both stargazers and Stewards, two sides of the same coin with vastly different beliefs and tactics. Mistlocke had Caermyn and Aberdenn, with the Order, Conclave, Wyrm Watchers, and adventuring population interrupting the flow of the secluded hamlet with their plans, plots, and interactions. And H'bala was tangible -- she was an enemy you could interact with, an enemy you could touch, an enemy you could feel like you were sometimes affecting and influencing. The Dread is this big, evil, hilariously distant bad that people almost appear to be ignoring, which is as frustrating as it is sometimes immersion breaking.

Perhaps it is a problem with the players' interpretation of the DM's intentions, but EFU:R's associations and factions feel very bland -- like they are a way to be rewarded for doing very little that you could not do as a person outside of the group you choose to be in. Most of the factions feel like similar packages with different trimmings. Some of the factions feel wholly irrelevant or tacked on, only serving to break up the server further into small niches.

These are a lot of observations that don't propose much in the way of a solution, but I felt the need to get my two cents out there about the state of things. The biggest advice I can give is to echo Caddies' words about how attachment to your character and fear for consequences can make you a poorer player. Live your character's defeats as much as their victories. It'll make success all the sweeter. Doing brash things that stir up the server will almost always put your character in a precarious position -- and there's often a very good chance that you will fail. But if you don't let yourself fail, you're never going to have the pleasure of that really unlikely, but nonetheless wildly successful victory that defines a character and, sometimes, an era of excitement and intrigue for the server.

These are fair points that I can understand seem this way from your perspective and certainly are eloquently put but I would like to emphasize one major point: the established major factions of EFU:R are established and lawful because they'll be around a long time. Villainous groups based outside the city are by their nature far less permanent and far more dynamic. Having established long-time villain factions vs. established city factions just very rapidly leads to stagnation in my opinion. Villainous factions are best either as either predominantly a PC effort or a DM supported group for a temporary plot or storyline. And we've had plenty of both examples.

EFU:R has one major hub with three major factions that are engaged in a lot of "non-violent" conflict against each other. There is also Lower which of course has its own contributions to play. And then throughout the server's history there have been a huge number of PC groups and NPC-supported groups that have been up to various things. Thrall groups, sneaky drow, svirfneblin, cults, criminal gangs...

My own view, and perhaps I am wrong, is that right before the End Plot EFU:M felt incredibly stagnant and boring to me: nature was largely an amorphous Withered Blob of bored PCs, the Order had nothing to do but write letters about grain shipments, and brawling between Caermyn and Aberdenn was incredibly tiresome and stale. EFU:R really seems far more interesting to me, from what I've seen.

The Dread Empire is certainly something of a distant threat to most PCs at this point. Which seems fine to me, since it is such a powerful foe and the consequences of failure are so great that tangling with them or striking against them is really best reserved for special events (which there have been many).

It is a fair point that perhaps access to a Sending System outside of Sanctuary is a bit difficult.

I'll add my two cents here and keep it short!

First off, I think many of the problems you have described can be handled IG. If you have a desire to see more conflict between associations in Upper, as an example, go ahead and make an Agent or a Watcher or a Political PC of some kind and cause some conflict! Apps to this nature are often encouraged by DMs.

Two, I am smack dab in the EST late night time zone you are speaking about, but I would say, if you feel you -need- a DM for anything ICly, you're gonna have a bad time. While its nice to have them around and involved in your character, there are many proactive steps you can take without them. I'll admit it kind of sucks when you encounter a bug or something, but there is not much to be done about that.

Three, supply bloat. I remember the very first days of EFU:1 when potion and wand crafting wasn't an option yet. When you nearly had an orgasm finding a single speed potion or similar. If anything, I am always pro-tone down the potions and supply. There is easily accessible healing supplies, which is all one really needs to quest. The less the other stuff, the more desperate and smart PCs have to be and honestly the more fun and intriguing the PVP becomes.

I guess that was three cents.

EFU is having a slow night so I wanted to pitch an idea. Let's kill Adventurers. I know this is the kind of thing people scream about "DO IT IC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" but hear me out for a moment. I had some fun conversations tonight on IRC with folks about the differences between upper and lower.
 
People (DMs included) are always quick to shout down about Upper Sanctuary and that it's utterly boring and people have trouble making waves against it. Let's not make it an IC fix. Let's make it an OOC fix.

I've been playing a lower PC the last few weeks for the first time in a while and it brought me to a hilarious and amusing revelation for the new year: I have yet to meet any adventurers. Everyone is a survivor. Some people are gangers. Others are cultists. Others are trouble makers. Others are just trying to get by. Most everyone belongs to a "Group".


Tonight I was bored so I started asking around PCs: What they felt was the difference between upper and lower?

Quote00:11   00:12   

Quote: It seems to me there is little being done to pit the various factions against each other in a dynamic/meaningful way - yes there is LETTER CONFLICT and BUREAUCRACY, but I personally can't survive on that.

Quote: If your in lower its because you have to be.
: If your in upper it because you spawned there

From my perspective it's in a similar vein: Upper has literally every DM faction save for the Stewards and Lower has none of these. Yet somehow Upper also has a malaise of independent Adventurers which Lower simply doesn't have. I've heard it said before people feel that being an "Independent" adventurer is the best way to get involved without any of the attachments and risks. Yet Everyone I have met in lower though has ties to one PC group of friends or Association or another. I don't know if the two or linked but I find it a curious thing to observe.

In Lower if you join a cult/gang it puts you automatically at odds with others. Ascension vs. Ibrandul, Hoarrans vs. Criminals, PC gangs vs. others. It's not half measures either. People who are fully supported to a cause. You have to join a group because to be independent is to be a mark and I feel like Upper would benefit so much more with that kind of movement.

Every PC should aspire to a place in a faction, to become part of a political guild or make other moves in Upper Sanctuary.  Every upper faction is just as capable as exploring, questing and otherwise as "Adventurers" but I feel as this is a persistent world and not a campaign the idea of adventurers is simply a detriment.

Feel free to raise your thoughts on ways Upper could be improved. There's been a major case of exodus away from upper lately to Nature and Lower alike. Not always a bad thing but many people call upper the "Hub" of EFU then turns around and bashes it for being a terrible place to play a PC.

Hi folks! Offering some nickels or dimes or whatever they call the exchange of money on this forum. So lets talk about this Upper exodus and characters.

Upper
After taking my time thinking about it, the silent war is pretty nice. However I want to see more. More cutthroat action, more proselytizing by odd savior-like faiths like Lower has, and I want to see players investigating the factions. Why the hell do the Society have mind powers? What the hell is the deal with that Machine? WHY THE HELL IS GREER WHITE NOW?

• I like there being a balance of blind loyalty and questioning to the authorities. I enjoy questioners as their questions spurn NPC notice, PC notice, and can lead to a lot of strange mysteries being solved or uncovered for good or bad. But I love the blind loyalist such as Danuta Pak as example who follow every order and think of the positives of our Smellguard overlords. The trouble with this is that players have to be really sneaky in their questioning as a lot of the time it leads to being kicked into Lower and eaten by A) the gangs down there who hate you; or B) Player trauma and character quit. It takes a lot for players who get kicked down there unless they are very prominent and have a way to sustain themselves early on.

• Push for dominance. Although less radical than Lower, I love seeing the small movements. I want to see more factions vying for dominance and actually upsetting the rather authoritative rule owned by the Spellguard and the figureheads. Example being a knight who believes in kings, a warlord wanting to bring the Society to war with illithids completely, and religious cults!

• More PC Directors (make the NPCs mortal you devilish PCs). My qualm since my return a couple months ago has been that we have had three leaders holding control of Sanctuary since the faction has started. Kingsly, Ghould, and Ma have managed to stay each time there has been a power surge and change.And rightfully so as they lead many huge groups, but I would like to see eager players replacing them. I see the Directors as the people who change the server and get the server running. Having all of the questions, meetings, and dealings fall to one player arguing with NPCs is a complete kill to what could be the greatest conflict on the server. In the past with Mistlocke it was okay to have an NPC mayor because it was one seat. We have five seats that can be used by players to push conflicts and benefit themselves and their seedy or good conflicts. I love Ghould, Kingsly, and Ma, but I would like to see them zoned out over time with more upstart and active players.

• I want to see some desperation. When every day could be your last and the final light of Sanctuary capable of burning out, I want to see desperation. I want to see more characters have conflict in their sole beliefs of what is the answer/road to safety. Black Guild has their stay inside policy and fortress, Red Guild has their we need to trade and conquest against monsters, and the upstart Gold Guild believing in divine paradise and having divine intervention through prayer (like old Feregor). Take twists on anything you can, from murder to trade, to holy conquest. And push it to the limit.

The gist: Push for more PC Directors, I am looking to players and DMs out there. Have a character working to impeach Directors. Hold a protest! Seek to find secrets or keep them hidden. Seek domination for your faction and your character. In doing so, woo the people from Spellguard or make them hate them.

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Lower
Boy do I love that place. With greater activity recently, Lower continues to be a no-mans land of people each looking for something else. I do not need to offer much advise here, just have Lower Sanctuary people pushing against Upper, thralls, each other, enlightenment, and such. It has many beginner quests now and I believe the place would benefit from having a starting point to avoid the awkward: "Spellguard just saved my life but fuck those guys" view that plagues a lot of Lower PCs.

• Keep causing trouble and pick a group to join!

• Have more corruptable/evil elements down below. There is a certain abberant cult down there that is really cool and I would like to see PCs getting involved and causing the non-thralls to be very scared. This would also push Society members to start a branch down there.

• Perhaps lower the cost for sendings as that is the trouble. There is the secret unauthorized sending thing but that takes a lot of time to find/work and makes it trouble for characters to organize early on. It would make Lower more user friendly. I would like to see some IC actions by PCs or a gang to make their own that would be awesome (Scrappers or a gang trying to make extra cash, maybe even an ex-agent!)

The gist: Add a more friendly sending system, perhaps covering only Lower and alleyways, and say that it was stolen by some gang from Upper/Machine. Making it a constant task of the city officials to take whatever device. Leave the child messenger still which will allow wealthier PCs to make use of the Upper sending which covers a HUGE HUGE radius. Add a lurking aberrant presence and have some active cults PCs can join. Lastly have some Upper PCs who are interested in claiming it as their own territory. Someone wanting to be Director who has convinced a gang to follow him/her in a sneaky Khavenko way.

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Nature
I have played with Nature quite often from EFU:A to EFU:R and one of the reasons why I have enjoyed nature is that it was highly involved in the actions of the server. There was always a dislike of nature from civilized PCs since before H'bala was released with acts of imperialism and xenophobia. My critique is that Nature is very far distanced from the main plots of the server due to a hub that is basically a faction HQ aka non-tangible most times for entry. Luckily it is very easy to form groups as there are sending places everywhere. It almost got to conflict with a small instance of a baubilium mine being raided and having the watch come after them but sadly with the death of that PC the conflict was dropped. What nature would benefit from with players would be:

• Greater inclusiveness with main events/plots. The DMs post an agenda from the elders with most events so it is up to the players to push this most.

• More conflict on baubilium/raiding players/Sanctuary for it or making some kind of deal of what is enough baubilium to mine vs what isn't.

• More vs. machine action from players.

• An npc group in Lower/outside Lower perhaps that will act to include druids/push against Machine. Would also act as a safe-zone for druids to speak at.

The gist: Push the limits of nature! It can be an old wisdom or a monster, and push to learn more and break the unnatural Machine that these people think is their salvation. Salvation only through the balance and primal world.

--------------------------------

Other
Ah yes, the other. The person who either belongs to none of these hubs or visits Lower for a bit of chaos now and then. Being a monster is greater fun than ever I would say. Even with a bounty/lynch mob. There are lairs to enjoy, PCs to enslave, and more. I have very little say on this as there are Duergar and Orogs out there having fun battling and fighting for spoils!

Gist: Great as is

These are my quarters/nickels and a dime. I look forward to seeing you all IG and pushing these.

Quote from: Random_White_Guy;422413Every PC should aspire to a place in a faction, to become part of a political guild or make other moves in Upper Sanctuary.  Every upper faction is just as capable as exploring, questing and otherwise as "Adventurers" but I feel as this is a persistent world and not a campaign the idea of adventurers is simply a detriment.

I do want to see more PCs in factions instead of being "adventurers" as from the factions I feel PCs can advance in the story and the plot better than just being adventurers, but there are many PCs who aren't just cut out to be in one of the major factions. And even more PCs who'd prefer to just be adventurers rather than drag corpses around the Underdark as Scriveners or be clerks and do paperwork.

One thing that I noticed lately is that while my PC is not in a bad place of knowing what's going on, I have zero idea even OOC what's going on in the rest of the factions. I feel that lately players are just OOC clueless if the factions are doing anything so they don't even bother to try and join, hence going to Lower or Nature (Might be slow still because of holidays/New Year effect though).

What I can suggest about it is that, while not making a lot of sense, players use more the letter forums to to send notes and letters to other players in the same faction as them, rather than using the faction forum or PMs (as long as the contents don't contain major spoilers of course). I looked over the Civil Service Forum and found many cool letters between PCs and I'm just not quite sure why it's there instead of being for all to see.

Example: A correspondence between two authority figures regarding capturing a PC criminal. If I was the player of the PC criminal, I'd be glad to see that OOC, because it means that someone is making a move against me, so firstly, I'm doing something right, and secondly, it's worth to stick around because fun times are ahead.
But it was in a faction forum so the player couldn't see it and I think the player retired their PC.

What I'm trying to say (in a very poor way) is that if the factions want to have more members, maybe try to do some of the letter work between faction members (PCs to PCs mostly, but even PCs to NPCs can work, I guess) outside of the faction forum or PMs.


One last thing, while it's the responsibility of the player to try and get involved in stuff, I think it should be the responsibility of the factions to involve others as well, sometimes PCs that don't belong with your same faction. Some players do that, other don't, some involve others only on DM events for those factions. If everything remains between the PCs of the faction, don't expect others to have any interest in the factions. Sure, people might turn on you and your faction, but it only makes things far more interesting that way.

I really appreciate Cmenden and Wiggyboy (before he transformed from HDM) for involving my current PC in some of their SG stuff with their Agent PCs. For a non faction PC it's really a lot of fun and feels great to be included in a few things of other factions (Non DM events, non scripted. Just exploration / lore thingies. Really doesn't need more than that :)). It breaks the routine of the "questing" side and might also bring non affiliated PCs to consider joining that faction (One day, the Auxiliary School of Cheerleading will be a thing, you'll see!)

Look, if your enjoyment of EFU is derived from playing a neutral adventurer that occasionally interacts with the world at large, goes on frequent quests, and likes saddling up for a DM plot or quest when they come along, then awesome. A+, keep on keeping on and enjoying what you want out of the server.

But if you're someone who has groaned about how things aren't dynamic, fun, exciting, conflicty, etc etc  but you don't know how to solve the problem on a personal, individual level, I would encourage you to try and distance yourself from your own character -- at least enough to realize that he or she is likely one of many to come and is by all means expendable.

More specifically, I think that we all have a propensity as players to want to conserve our character's life and, by extension, we translate our OOC logic into our characters' IC interactions -- meaning that, more or less, we like acting safely and securely. If you want to stir things up, don't do this. Let your character act in a way that you would label illogical.

If you are nervous about joining a faction because you have no idea what that faction is doing, chances are that they aren't doing anything particularly important because they aren't involving the server in their activities. Granted, it's possible that you're just blindly unaware of said faction's actions -- but in general, if a faction seems dead, inactive, etc., it means that it's probably ripe for someone to bring it to the forefront of the server and stir things up.

Consolidate power. Abuse it. Be the bad guy. Be an antagonist that everyone wants to strive against -- physically, politically, verbally, whatever. Be an extremist. Sanctuary is a collection of people vying for control over the end of the world. Mix up the interactions. Create a strain between factions. Find an enemy and stick to your guns when they come hunting for you. Break the status quo. None of this even has to include an ounce of PvP for a long time if you don't want it to.

People are going to disagree with me, but I would say to stay away from the forums rather than embrace them. Forum conflict is the most passive aggressive conflict. If you want to bite your thumb at Abram, do it in a square full of people so that the whole world (esp. those that don't have a voyeuristic tendency to read every letter on the forums) knows how much you hate Montague scum. As much of an ego boost as I might get from searching my character's name and seeing someone call her a crazy lunatic moon bitch in a letter to peer #17, I would much rather come to blows with that PC IC where everyone can enjoy the tension and interaction than on the forums where it's just two or three select people.

Place a greater importance on existing factions/groups in Upper Sanctuary, the way it applies to players in Lower Sanctuary. This can apply to both players and DM's- the most important perk for PC's to aspire to is not free resting or uniforms but simply who you know. Contacts, connections, relationships built and broken is what separates efu from just being NWN and it really shines in Lower. Being on the inside means aligning yourself with a gang or group that shares your ideals, and if you're on the outside, you're really out.

But that's not the case in Upper Sanctuary. For some reason, having no allegiances makes you more likely to be able to take part in whatever plot you want, not less- and that's largely due to the fact that most of the existing factions have held no major stakes in the stories that have been going on-seemingly by design. I haven't ever been a part of a plot focused around a DM-faction, and the last one I can remember seeing was a Society-plot focused on around these strange aberrant mushroom caps. The new plots we've seen have brought in more factions/associations centered on them rather than use the ones we've got, which has split the player base even further.

This isn't to say that the plot tokens inside factions should be closely guarded from outsider eyes and stay strictly between faction members only. Quite the opposite- they should be the hooks you use to draw the outsiders into your group, so you can go forth and be awesome together. This also isn't to say that plots focused around sub-races outside of Sanctuary is a bad thing. It's just that I can remember a thread way back from efu1 where the topic was how the DM factions were empty and there was a million PC faction forums with 2-3 players each and as a result, it was hard to focus a plot anywhere because you'd be playing to a room, not an auditorium.

The good thing is that all this can be changed. If you don't like a faction and think it would be better if the perception of them was X, not Y, you can grab a friend and go about that in-game. If factions are filled up with interesting PC's pushing their agendas, the plots should naturally fall their way too and with that comes inter-faction conflict: two groups, rather than two individuals, want to do this with that.