I suggest that the PC lycanthrope Damage Resistance be changed to 10/+2, 5/+1 like the Greater Chosen used to be in EFU!
Thoughts?
I think what you meant is 10/+1 & 5/+2, because otherwise 5/+1 would have no effect with 10/+2 in place at the same time.
[SIZE="1"]*nitpicky*[/SIZE]
Sounds like a nice thing to apply to high level lycanthropes rather than across the board.
Unless +1 wpns are more common than I think (which is entirely possible).
They're not, but the spell magic weapon is!
QuoteI think what you meant is 10/+1 & 5/+2, because otherwise 5/+1 would have no effect with 10/+2 in place at the same time.
Yes, indeed sir.
Given how the server is awash in Magic Weapon charge ambient loot, I don't think this suggestion is too crazy!
I 100% agree. I know my current character has yet to be in a situation where he has -not- had at lease one charge of magic weapon via some trinket.
I think this is a good idea, but would it not make them sort of invincible on scripted quests? Unless there are actually quite a few enemies that carry +2 weapons around.
I share Wern8's concern, but not his enthusiasm.
Any scripted quest where a lycanthrope can shift freely on will destroy it anyway. Very few monsters on scripted quests have +1 magic weapons, at least from what I have seen.
Maybe making better as the lvl of the PC goes up? Like +1 at lvl2-7, +2 at lvl8+?
Not that it concerns many pcs... or does it? *forges a silver dagger*
Also considering when you shift you lose your AC from armour so your ac becomes shit anyway (if you're not a dex based build) so I don't think this would make much of a difference on scripted quests but would help bring some fear facing them if its PC vs PC
From what I know, there are actually quite a few monsters with +1 weapons. But there might not even be any with +2 or higher weapons. There is a huge difference in this. And Damien, AC does not matter if you are basically immune to damage. It's basically like you could only be killed by spells or traps.
And I thought ECL/LA characters have been given an easier time recently, in terms of XP gain? Although, my concern is mostly just about scripted quests.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Arthurion/caddies-1.jpg)
Damn that Droopy Detective.
Oh my, the truth has been revealed.
Lycanthrope already lose their subrace skill bonuses when the shift.
For example, these are the skill bonuses of a wererat.
QuoteSkills: Hide +8, Listen +4, Move Silently +4, Spot +4.
But they are all lost when shifting into animal or hybrid shape. You get spotted MUCH easier, and become less effective when trying to spot enemies that actually do pack a punch, even to a lycan. (The sneak attacking cats, those orc assassins.)
And like Damien said, do to the armor unequipping, your AC will be lowered. This is not as much of a problem on quested scripts as it is in PvP. In PvP, the best bonus of the lycan is easily negated because magic weapon loot is so easy to get.
Applying this to high level lycans would not be that much use, becaus I doubt that any lycan will rech a high level anyways, even with the XP gian changes.
5/+2 would be a nice change to see. It would not make lycanthropes much more powerful. They would not become much more powerful on quests, because the monsters who carry +1 weapons already hit hard enough to tear through the 5/+2 dr anyways.
And in PvP, the lycanthrope DR would not be negated completely as easily anymore.
No, you don't lose them. That has been fixed.
Shit, it's like the ECL isn't even there anymore. (Of which I wouldn't be surprised. XD)
The rest is still true, regardless.
And the skill point bonus loss does not appear to be fixed for me.
Seems to come down to whether lycanthropes should be substantially more powerful than a comparable, well equipped adventurer or not.
In PvP, that kind of dr would see the lycanthrope come out on top just about every time.
If they're too vulnerable right now an ac bonus might work to balance them out?
This would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.
5/2 equates to "free unbeatable perma-blur in trusted company". In PVP, anyone who's not a shifted lycanthrope will use Blur to get 5/1 DR anyway if the opponent doesn't have MW. A level of DR you need GMW to get past seems overpowered as you'd need a scroll (that you aren't UMDing) or ally to have a chance, wands are incredibly expensive and loot negligible.
If a lycanthrope has a DR of 10/+1 and I have silver arrows, which in all known lore from films and movies are supposed to absolutely destroy a lycanthrope. I have a shortbow that's not mighty and does 1d6 + the 1d6 from the arrows. So the DR would absorb the 1d6 normal damage and would do 1d6 magical damage to the lycanthrope(from the arrow only), right?
QuoteSeems to come down to whether lycanthropes should be substantially more powerful than a comparable, well equipped adventurer or not.
In PvP, that kind of dr would see the lycanthrope come out on top just about every time.
If they're too vulnerable right now an ac bonus might work to balance them out?
Even a horribly equipped adventurer will have magic weapon because it is so easy to find them. So lycanthropes do not have many defenses anymore.
That 5/+2 would make them come out on top every time sounds quite silly to me.
QuoteThis would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.
I believe silver weapons function the same on PC lycanthropes as they did on the Chosen. A silver weapon should still damage them, even if they have 5/+2 DR.
Even 5 dr that can't be penetrated is really powerful.
It's just my opinion, but it seems a bit unbalancing.
It's not as though there aren't alternatives.
5 dr isn't that spectacular. Most characters over lvl 4 would be able to get through it in one way or another.
I'm in favour of this; Lycanthropes could need these small advantages. If they ever do get into PvP they're likely to be outnumbered anyway.
Quote from: Egon the Monkey;118130This would make all current silver weapons semi-useless against PC lycanthropes, when those things are supposed to scare the hell out of werecreatures.
As opposed to now, where silver weapons are semi-useless against PC lycanthropes. :P
Look at it this way. Lets assume pvp between two players, both level 6. One is a say a wererat the other is say some type of melee ftr type build.
1. Wererat
- Has 1/10 and 2/5 damage reduction.
- Armor unequiped. (Lets even say its a rogue dex build with maxed dex, lets call it AC of 18... )
2. Melee Ftr Type Build
- Most likely has a +1 magic weapon item somewhere.
- Assume a STR of 16
- Assume +2 damage to favored weapon feat
- Fairly high BAB
- Damage is Weapon Damage + 6 (1 from magic weapon, 3 from str, 2 from feat)
Oh wait that means they are doing Weapon Damage + 1 automatically to the wererate even -if- we give the +2/5 DR. This does not even take into account such things as bull strength potions, coating a weapon with alchemist fire, having a mage cast darkfire ... you get the idea.
What about the rest of the classes?
- Rogues: Do they usually go into melee pvp anyway? I usually see them land a sneak attack and tricks to win. These still hold true.
- Casters: No spell resistance so they arent affected
- Monks: Stun fist is still good to go.
- Barbarians: Rage will give you enough str damage to easily cut through the damage reduction with a simple +1 magic weapon charm.
- Rangers: Lets face it rangers tend to have issues with pvp in general.
I am rather for this suggestion. Lycanthropes should be terrifying, and a bad thing to cross!
If this happens, PC's should be vunerable to silver weapons.
Quote from: TheMoonlightBecomesYou;118156I am rather for this suggestion.
There's a surprise.
Maybe I should add, just for the record, that I'm not the one you need to convince, mostly because you can't. I feel rather strongly that if you apply for a sub race with LA, you apply to suck (to an extent), at least in certain areas. It's that same reason I'm fundamentally against eliminating the concept of LA. The fact that silver weapons don't, and currently can't be made to, work correctly against PC lycanthropes is also something I consider a major freebie.
However, there are maybe a handful of DMs would could simply tell me to do this and I would without a single objection. These are the people you need to convince.
Quote from: DangerousDan;118120(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/Arthurion/caddies-1.jpg)
Did... Did... DD... Just... Take it
TO THE MAX?....unbelievable. The world is indeed full of surprises.
I support the suggestion.
60%.
Some of the time.
AFAIK subrace classes get more then average DM attention and likely some sort of loot to make up for their (minor) disadvantages, but let's not forget that nearly every subrace gets some (major) advantages.
5/+2 dr is too powerful. that literally means lycanthropes become -even more- powerful. And the amount of lycanthropes popping up currently is quite a lot imo. Especially considering that no-one ever bothers to hunt them, or even be remotely suspicious of their presences.
If they were truly hunted, persecuted and hammered into the ground by everyone. then maybe. but i'm not in favour of making them even tougher than they currently stand.
Such cold hatred, Sir Snoteye. And here I am, loving you. Tsk.
Such said, I can agree with what you said, about the silver weapons not working with PCs, though.
The amount of lycanthropes is quite a lot? You seem to have difficulty counting.
They are powerful, until someone uses one of the easily found items that enchants your weapon. They are not as tough as you think. Then they are not that much different from a regular character.
They cannot receive bonuses from their armor, nor any weapons in their animal or hybrid form. They are limited to 1d6+str base damage.
If people are concerned that lycanthropes are too easily accepted by the populace/adventurers of the Colony/island, they should make an effort to hunt/persecute them.
That post by Dan showing my submission for a Lycanthrope app is bullshit BTW!
Dan hasn't the technical knowledge to pull such a stunt.
Quote from: Kiaring;118173If people are concerned that lycanthropes are too easily accepted by the populace/adventurers of the Colony/island, they should make an effort to hunt/persecute them.
I know Drago Jather became a local hero/villain by hunting one who alot of people loved.
Lycans certainly need this -- but also need a damage boost while shifted. 1d6 + str does not scare anyone.
Also, if they were not pathetic I think more people would hunt lycans. Cutting up a 14 AC opponent with a magic weapon is not hard.
I think there is a major distinction here between the adventuring community and the local populace. The local populace would likely be scared to death of lycans ... (remember they are the people without magic weapon trinkets or in some cases weapons period). The adventurers .... eh they face a lot more scarey stuff on an almost daily basis.
I'm for boosting the lycans. Of course, that means that the app. will be harder!
I was for this 5/+2 DR a while back. It's nothing too serious and it would help a lot for them to survive being hunted or assaulted for being what they are (i.e. mean sonuva that everyone should fear or mistrust).
I'm also for changing their claw damage based on character level BUT only in hybrid form.
1d6 for 1-4 levels.
1d10 for 5-7
2d6 for 8-10
Or something like that. Something that gives them some fear factor.
I agree with the claw idea a hundred %. Especially considering they are an ECL of 3.
I think Mort pretty much captured it. Seems a decent balance.
They should be very tough IG and of course be very hard to get accepted via an application.
Yes, only hybrid form. Animal form needs to be made worse -- IMO.
Mort's suggestion pretty much is amazing. It gives them the oomph they really need to be feared, without being overpowering. And if it means stricter application standards, I think its a good trade.
So. Hybrid form has been buffed.
Hybrid will now have +2/5.
As well as the damage progression:
level 1 - 4: d6
level 5 - 6: d10
level 7+ : 2d6