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Main Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ShadowCharlatan on April 01, 2015, 01:25:29 PM

Title: Player Character Evaluation Tool Discussion
Post by: ShadowCharlatan on April 01, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
Feel free to discuss the newly available system. The DM Team definitely encourages high quality players to give advice and guidance to struggling low quality players on how they can improve in their problem areas. See the announcement thread (//%22http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?103799-Introducing-the-Player-Character-Evaluation-Tool&p=430313%22) for more info.
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Post by: WriterX on April 01, 2015, 01:36:28 PM
I believe that an important measure is missing here, and that is how many deaths the character suffers, especially if there is a high number of such deaths during a short period of time. That could be a clear denominator of low quality of gameplay. Also, I know this would be harder to code, but other PCs who could also be flagged are those that do not seem to die often during TPK scenarios (especially on quests) since that could mean they are especially cowardly, or unable to teamplay.

However, however. An even more important "tag" method would be that of previously received DM Loot, from Events or Spices. The more such loot he has or has received the more eligible he is for DM Quest Spice, since clearly he or she must had earned that loot somehow!
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Post by: ShadowCharlatan on April 01, 2015, 01:41:44 PM
You didn't mention your current PC's quality stats for some reason, WriterX. Everyone will see them IG anyway. There's no reason not to be open about it.

Oh well. I guess it will take some time for people to get accustomed to it. No problem! No pressure! :)
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Post by: WriterX on April 01, 2015, 01:45:06 PM
Let me check... I just tested the tool. It said:

Player Character Evaluation
Isabelle Monksblade

Cowardice:44
Lameness: 20
Stupidity: 53

Higher means better right?
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Post by: Oskar Maxon on April 01, 2015, 01:50:45 PM
Suggestion: Make these available on efusl.
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Post by: Letsplayforfun on April 01, 2015, 01:54:37 PM
Edited by DM Nuclear Catastrophe :  Contained erroneous information
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Post by: WriterX on April 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
... How can you reduce these scores then? They are terrible!
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Post by: Pentaxius on April 01, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
In the interest of its intended role, as an incentivizing tool, I'd suggest adding a "current trend" (i.e Increase, decrease, stable) to each indicator - or another possibility, adding a moving average or a decay factor.

It's something good to know the current standing of someone, but it's even better in the interest of its signaling purpose to know if the person is improving his behavior, or not.
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Post by: Sankis on April 01, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Will we be allowed to app to use this info icly? Could I, for example, app for my veteran warrior to be able to 'sense' cowardice?
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Post by: whiterabbit on April 01, 2015, 02:03:08 PM
I think there's a bug in the algorithm SC:

Quote[Player Character Evaluation Tool]Hlahlisessil-zah's Point Readout:
Cowardice: 29
Lameness: 93
Stupidity: 60
Target for punishing spice? No.

My cowardice score is surprisingly low.  Shall I file a bug report?
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Post by: boatsandfoes on April 01, 2015, 02:16:11 PM
hey there BaF here, just a 11/1/54 looking to meet some other players in that range. im not currently being targeted but that is bound to change.. jut wanted to say something, i think all you L=+90's need to calm down and stop hating the system for what you have only done yourself. i mean most people can agree on something, thank god we are not C=+20's. so yeah any with similar evaluations hit me up im looking for a concept.
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Post by: Stranger on April 01, 2015, 02:30:14 PM
I know that punishing spice is meant to punish and all, but I've actually enjoyed it. I think it's incredible fun for my Underdark to be catastrophically dangerous, for our quests to bleed us every step of the way, and merciless monsters to be wriggling out of the walls.

Have I been targeted before? Because I think I misinterpreted it as reward and encouragement for good behavior.
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Post by: Knight Of Pentacles on April 01, 2015, 02:32:13 PM
My worst fears have been confirmed.  I hope everyone is looking forward to my paragraph long rant in the returning/leaving thread.
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Post by: Faux News on April 01, 2015, 02:41:10 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/5DmEi5C.png)

This is awesome. I hope to find a way to concentrate this lameness even more and eventually weaponize it for use against my enemies. The DMs will find a 8 page report on how I intend to go about this in my Personal Character Notes.
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Post by: Blue41 on April 01, 2015, 02:44:18 PM
QuoteCowardice: 36
Lameness: 11
Stupidity: 55

I think it would be good form for everyone on this board to put their scores into their signatures, just so others would know what they'd be getting into by contacting you via letter. Do I want to make a deal with a coward? Should stupid people have access to the sensitive information I'm sending them? An emphatic 'no' on both counts.
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Post by: Stranger on April 01, 2015, 02:46:01 PM
Additionally, is cowardice measured as an OOC or IC trait? Is it okay to play characters who craven filth by conceptual design?

What is stupidity a measure of? My first character possesses a score of 9 in that respect despite a staggering death habit and atrocious heights of incompetence or bad luck. Other characters that seem to've mechanically struggled are similarly low. Are we to understand the value as how stupidly fast we progress? Or how likely it is that we've cheated the system somehow, perhaps?
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Post by: One_With_Nature on April 01, 2015, 02:47:29 PM
Do I get a prize for getting 100 in all 3?
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Post by: morva on April 01, 2015, 02:50:27 PM
Why am I considered a low quality player? What have I done to deserve this? Why do you hate me? Wahhhhh
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Post by: NothingGoldCanStay on April 01, 2015, 03:17:45 PM
[ATTACH=CONFIG]712[/ATTACH]
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Post by: Ladocicea on April 01, 2015, 03:25:26 PM
To all the lamers who are posting their lamer scores and suggesting adding them to sigs or whatever, remember you can use the tool on others to check their scores.
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Post by: GoldLover on April 01, 2015, 03:26:00 PM
Can we get a rough breakdown on which automated functions count towards lameness / cowardice / stupidity?
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Post by: Stranger on April 01, 2015, 03:32:29 PM
Friendly neighborhood adventuring announcement!

Do not quest with the lightstone chamber assistant. He's a landmine with legs. I have every confidence that BigOrcMan has a special place in trap hell, just waiting for him...
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Post by: Faux News on April 01, 2015, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: GoldLover;430345Can we get a rough breakdown on which automated functions count towards lameness / cowardice / stupidity?

I don't think this is a good idea, as it will let true cowards game the system and come up with ways to be cowardly without accruing points to get their monthly quota of hatespice.
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Post by: GoldLover on April 01, 2015, 03:41:40 PM
...

I get it now.

God damnit.
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Post by: whiterabbit on April 01, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: Ladocicea;430344To all the lamers who are posting their lamer scores and suggesting adding them to sigs or whatever, remember you can use the tool on others to check their scores.

Not so fast, Lado!  The tool is useless against a true cowardly PC, as I know all too well.  You must first be able to see a PC to use the tool.  Stealth and invis 4evah!!!!
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Post by: derfo on April 01, 2015, 04:15:56 PM
You are welcome to attempt to make your PCET scores as obvious or concealed as you like, but it won't change how visible they are via the player tool.

As far as a breakdown goes, ShadowCharlatan articulated it pretty well, but here is an attempt at some points:

Cowardice: Rounds in combat, rounds invisible, time character has remained alive idling
Lameness: Amount of characters killed, potions consumed and in which areas, quest volume done
Stupidity: Detected spelling errors, times subdued, stats with minimum scores (6 or 8 for example)

Target for punishing spice: Quest volume, amount of recorded OOC infractions, detected profanity

Bear in mind the following:

A comprehensive list for player actions that modify scores is in the works.
It bears saying, DMs can modify scores at their discretion.
Higher or lower scores on their own do not necessarily indicate anything, LPFF's post is mistaken. (for example, 90 stupidity does not necessarily mean you are a huge retard)
The scale is not necessarily 0-100, despite popular assumption.
Previous characters on a CD key can be taken into account. (for example, a player with a history of playing lame characters could have an influence on a new character's lameness score on creation, this provides us a basis to judge a new character easily)

Suggestions to improve this tool for the playerbase are welcome, but please keep them concise, relevant, and respectful. Thank you.
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Post by: whiterabbit on April 01, 2015, 04:36:04 PM
Could we get an official thread where players Targeted for Punishment Spice must register?  I'd hate to be collateral damage just because I was too lazy to use the PCET.
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Post by: Pentaxius on April 01, 2015, 05:34:39 PM
I think a more friendly and accurate re-labelling could be beneficial :) While the metric is interesting, I'm concerned it isn't quite valid in the psychometric sense. For instance, the inclusion of spelling mistakes in the stupidity rating gets biased for PC's who try to emulate some form of mild accent/slang. Likewise, minimum states is, probabilistically speaking, tied to a certain "min-maxing" framework, and thus would load on the lameness dimension, not the stupidity one. This should really be interpreted with a grain of salt...

If we were to do this professionally, we could use a machine learning solution to capture the relevant dimensions that characterize excellent PC, create a generative model of what the "optimal behavioral profile" is - and inverse the model to "judge" all other players. This is similar to the system league of legend uses for the Tribunal, 99% of decisions are correctly predicted from the machine learning system. It all depends on the amount of data that is recorded, but if the system has been running long enough and the data is there, it should be feasible - but I'm not sure if the classification accuracy would be too great, overall.

1. Select a sample of excellent PC (say 100 or so). Select a sample of the "general" population (the rest)
2. Separate the data in two parts. Training set, and validation set.
3. Pick all the dimensions recorded by the system.
3. Train the model to correctly classify the excellent PCs with regards to the general population
4. Cross-validated on the rest of the data to prevent overfitting
5. Verify classification accuracy (% of excellent PCs classified correctly), if it isn't high enough return to step 3 or change the classifier method.
6. Invert the model to obtain a proximity index.
7. Look at how the dimensions load on the proximity index. I'm sure it would be quite insightful.






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Post by: Apocryphal Misconceptions on April 01, 2015, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: boatsandfoes;430324hey there BaF here, just a 11/1/54 looking to meet some other players in that range. im not currently being targeted but that is bound to change.. jut wanted to say something, i think all you L=+90's need to calm down and stop hating the system for what you have only done yourself. i mean most people can agree on something, thank god we are not C=+20's. so yeah any with similar evaluations hit me up im looking for a concept.



I'm running a crew of Hoarans. It's mostly a < 50 thing but if you profess a desire to act less stupidly, we'll definitely have a spot for you.
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Post by: Apocryphal Misconceptions on April 01, 2015, 05:41:49 PM
This completely validifies how I felt about some players.

It might be a great addition to add this to those swanky EFU t-shirts Sternhund designed, if you're proud to be out.
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Post by: Faux News on April 01, 2015, 05:54:00 PM
We, the lamest, shall rise up and seize control of the server.
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Post by: PanamaLane on April 01, 2015, 05:54:16 PM
I blame Obama.
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Post by: Kinslayer988 on April 01, 2015, 06:01:23 PM
This is really perfect for me as a concerned player. I have held grudges against players whom I identified as lames, cowards, and idiots but now with the help of the PCET tool I can validate those claims. Rest assured that I will not be victim to the nonsense of punishment spice by other play-

Wait what? Just checked my scores:

Lameness 9 (oh yeah, all the times playing non-fighting fit PCs is paying off!)
Coward 56 (Oh, um... I guess that is from all the time I played non-fighting PCs)
Stupidity 53 (Wait am I stupid for rolling non-fighting PCs? OH NO)

Deserving of punishment spice: Yes?

Wait what? Oh no... This is from that one time wasn't it... Oh no... Oh dear....

Someone tell me how to be a good player and lower the bad scores and get the punishment spice away from me. I know that I deserved that nightriser commander!

You all won't judge me right???
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Post by: LordOfBones on April 01, 2015, 06:24:38 PM
Aprils FOOLS

Cowardice 68
Lameness 23
Stupidity 68

for me.

Sounds appropriate, though I think stupidity should be higher, random number generator needs some work
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Post by: CaptLars on April 01, 2015, 06:27:17 PM
Cowardice - 1
Lameness- 101
Stupidity- 8

Yeah sounds about right, all you chumps will still be begging to ride mah coat tails though.
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Post by: Heavyfog on April 01, 2015, 08:25:53 PM
Hmmm... It seems my PC's have no Lameness Score, Instead I have Awesomeness: 98...sweet! :D

Perhaps I should put this in the Bug Reports thread...
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Post by: Pentaxius on April 01, 2015, 09:04:23 PM
O my god. This was indeed an April's fool, and I've been fooled on an epic level.

Congratulations for making my day :)
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Post by: Saturnalia on April 01, 2015, 11:23:00 PM
Does stupidity take into account Dwarves? :p
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Post by: Apocryphal Misconceptions on April 02, 2015, 12:30:18 AM
Quote from: Pentaxius;430376O my god. This was indeed an April's fool, and I've been fooled on an epic level.

Congratulations for making my day :)


It's funny that Pentaxius almost put more thought into his (previous) post than SC did developing this (awesome!!) prank.

This was highly amusing! April Fools never disappoints here. ;D
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Post by: Kinslayer988 on April 02, 2015, 12:41:52 AM
Your attempt to hide the permanence of your scores by saying it is an April Fools joke is amusing.
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Post by: Pigadig on April 02, 2015, 07:38:29 AM
Cowardice: 6
Lameness: 51
Stupidity: 9

Spice: Nope

Hmm. Somehow these numbers seem rather fitting.

Clearly since SC posted this on 2 April Australian time it is not actually April fools.
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Post by: Arc on April 04, 2015, 11:08:32 PM
This is a beautiful April fools joke, and utterly got me.
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Post by: Pandip on April 05, 2015, 04:16:22 AM
pentaxius u such a qtπ
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Post by: Apocryphal Misconceptions on May 03, 2015, 11:17:17 AM
Someone just logged in to ask me where to find the Player Evaluation Tool. XD

It was Idon.
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Post by: A Mystery Clock on May 03, 2015, 11:25:26 AM
I... I really wanted to know her score.