Look, I know they are great fun, the occasional goblin and kobold horde is great.
Honestly, people are playing these races wrong. They are universally evil, should be hated, loathed, and abused and murdered on site. You DON"T strike up a conversation with a goblin, you should ignore it, attack it, and send it running.
Since the player base seems to not get the idea, and goblin/kobold players aren't playing them right, I propose to revert them to application only.
Thank you.
After the events of today, I agree that goblins and kobold should be app only. It is ridiculous to see the amount of PC's actually defending a inherantly evil greedy creature.
I also agree that gullibility of characters can and encouraged to be exploited, but in my opinion. It was more general acceptance of the monster than gullibility of PCs being exploited.
I am with you on this one Thomas.
There have been far too many nice goblins/kobolds, and I would love to see them as application races once agien. (Ofcourse they should be VERY easy to have approved since they suck :-) )
I reluctantly add my voice to the chorus. We've had some really good things come from making them non-app, but it is in my opinion the least consistantly roleplayed (or perhaps, it is consistantly roleplayed WRONG, if I may be so bold) thing on the server, both by monster PCs and non-monster PCs.
Making it app only again would strengthen the integrity of the server's consistancy and strength of roleplaying. Plus, come on... they're not hard to app for. And if someone doesn't want to take the time to put some effort into a goblin or kobold to make an app that's almost guarunteed to pass, they should not be permitted to break the immersion for other players. Plus, frankly, I get very frustrated by the number of monsters running around because I don't like FDing people, and rarely do I have any reason to do otherwise.
Just my opinion!
They're also meant to be a monster everyone can chase down and kill for no reason. So kill them. Especially the irritating cutesy ones.
Quote from: Garem;86670I get very frustrated by the number of monsters running around because I don't like FDing people, and rarely do I have any reason to do otherwise.
Tell me if I got it right: you are frustrated because you are somehow
forced (by what??) to fd people despite the fact you don't like it?
I think I witnessed the incident on the side that led to Thomas's initial post and it made me think the same about this issue..
I think this is stemming from the OOC courtesy people give to other players that are behind the screen.
Look, OOC courtesy can only go so far. Goblins are vile, baby eating, child murdering, enslaving monsters. OOC courtesy should not affect IC decisions.
I support this motion.
First I would like to point out there a quite a few new players to the EfU playerbase and don't know how, including dealing with a goblin. Please be considering all those happy RP servers that hug and love monsters and the damage they cause. =(
Goblins can kind of relatively be safe in the zig because of Gobsquats and it makes sense. I don't think most PCs want to anger the local band of heavily armed goblins out of convenience if someone snitches on them by random goblin murdering unless they know it can't escape. I think there is an underestimation of Gobsquat influence at that part.
Also keep in mind characters that occasionally don't have the heart or means to kill some pathetic creatures and really want them dead.
A lot of the playerbase seems to be newish as well. Although I do see a bit of hypocrisy when people are getting drylooted of gold and anything remotely good and not doing anything for goblins/kobolds that pass them.
Keep in mind, many of the past goblin/kobold PCs while appearing to be cutesy and nice they were really debating if they wanted to have you for lunch. Ghyrrt's tribe would be an example of this. I haven't seen too much of these characters that would look like we needed to make them app races so I think you all are jumping the gun for a few special cases.
I personally would be displeased if I would have to app for the race. Players can simply be guided into playing a proper monster PC / treating one. Smack a few monster lovers around if they associate with them enough, make that pitchfork mob. Less crying about it and see what you can do. I am against putting kobold/goblin PCs for app because I'd rather not add frustration for both DM and player to approve 6-9 separate applications for just a typical goblin band.
I think some of this stems from the NPC “good” goblins and kobolds. If we get use to accepting them it should in turn get us use to accepting PC types. Who’s to say the PC isn’t part of that faction it may even have been app’d to be part of the Gobsquat. You can’t unless you use OOC knowledge. So quite honestly I don’t see a problem with not killing them on site based on the NPC tribes present.
So from what I know of this place so far. I wouldn’t kill goblins on site because of the Gobsquat tribe. Kobolds on the other hand should probably expect confrontation on site.
If you want to kill them on site, get rid of the NPC tribes in my opinion. It was one thing in the Underdark, entirely different story on the surface. (I'm not a fan of NPC tribes of goblins and kobolds btw.)
If it's on the Ziggurat, it's free game as long as you have a DM.
Quote from: Thomas_Not_very_wise;86691If it's on the Ziggurat, it's free game as long as you have a DM.
That’s fine as long as I’m not told as a player that it’s my job to kill goblins. If the PC frequents the Gobsquat and accepts them, then they are not very racially motivated against goblins. If on the other hand my PC’s racial prejudice is such that I avoid the Gobsquat at all costs and plot to eliminate them, then sure I would. But I don’t like being dictated to, if my PC could care less about goblins, then
I should not be questioned in tells, [why didn’t you attack him?]. I am not going to question anybody either way; I feel we should play our PC’s to their personality, not the dictates of others.
It is certainly in character for some players to enslave and protect goblins, while others are completely indifferent to them. Generally speaking most NPC's will treat goblins as they are meant to be treated in canon literature however; as vicious lowbie monsters adventurers slaughter in hoardes that are reviled by all as thieving, murderous beasts. The same goes for kobolds.
At any rate, I've recently disliked monster PC's quite a bit and think they add little if anything productive to the gameworld. They circumvent even our most basic courtesy rules when it comes to PvP, and are a testament to everything I dislike about spurious, un-needed PvP in mass.
I would like to see this happen as well, actually.
yes
I would just add that I agree greatly with this suggestion for many of the reason listed above.
I find myself forced to disagree in part with the original poster's reasons for this suggestion, because the argument does not proceed far enough. The crux of the argument seems to be that goblins and kobolds are not treated appropriately according to their context within the Forgotten Realms setting by the majority of humanoid characters. This argument holds little-to-no water; making goblins and kobolds application only would affect the players of said monstrous characters; it would not change the way humanoid characters react to them. If you wish to take the opposite side of this argument and state that the players of these monstrous characters are not representing their race's nature appropriately, the same argument could be made for those players who play other humanoid non-human races-elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and half-orcs-and obviously making these races application-only would be an absurd idea to suggest. Mechanically, goblins and kobolds have no special advantages that ECL subraces/races do that should require them to be applied for.
Goblins and kobolds are indeed monsters, however, and this is certainly a valid argument to make for requiring them to be application only. Goblins and kobolds are cowardly, insignificant creatures whose primary threats are in their large numbers and vicious, sneaky "tactics," not in their individual power or in their intellects and prowess. They exist to serve as a challenge for low-level humanoid adventurers. It does make sense to suggest that any monstrous race or subrace-whether it has an ECL or not-should be application only, and this is, again, a valid argument, although it appears to be one the EfU DM team has already considered and dismissed.
I think the real question that needs to be asked, then, is this: what have application-free goblins and kobolds brought to EfU? Have they brought interesting, deep character concepts that influenced the server in a positive manner? Or have they simply served to foment intense PvP conflict? The old setting of Sanctuary was one that was very much rife with PvP, and dominated by the controlling effect of the monsters that, for all intents and purposes, ruled the Underdark. In this PvP-heavy, monster-dominated setting of Sanctuary, goblins and kobolds being application-free certainly seemed to proceed well, especially after the initial balloon of them died down.
Yet now, EfU has a new setting: the archipelago. While this setting still carries with it the feel of desperate survival and over-arching evil, it is also a setting that is (hopefully) less dour and dark than that of Sanctuary. So the question that I think should be asked for the relevance of non-application goblins and kobolds in this new setting is this: do goblins and kobolds, as monstrous races whose very existence is largely to serve as opponents for low-level adventurers, contribute in a meaningful way to the evolution of this new main server setting, or do they instead represent a holdover from the trite PvP conflicts of Sanctuary that were at least one of the reasons the server setting was changed? If the answer is yes, then non-application goblins and kobolds remain legitimate. If the answer is no, then they should probably be made application-only once more, to prevent them from impinging the growth and development of this (effectively) new server.
Goblins and kobolds are fun, I won't deny this. I can see how others find them fun, and want to incorporate them as much as possible into the gameworld. Yet if their only purpose as PCs is to PvP and quest-spam with humanoid PCs, then they fulfill no real purpose in a roleplay-oriented playerworld, and should be relegated to application-only, and only approved when a goblin/kobold concept has some other underlying purpose besides fighting other characters and spamming quests.
"you are frustrated because you are somehow forced (by what??) to fd people despite the fact you don't like it?"
I am not forced by anything, but I am compelled to fight and kill them because it is what my character ought to do. He never hesitates to pepper a goblin out in the woods with arrows, as damned near every PC does. Why should my attitude towards a race change just because they aren't instantly set to hostile by being a PC monster. Hell, they're CLOSER to the city and the people and thus should be considered MORE dangerous and MORE worthy of peppering with arrows.
And one more thing to add: it's frustrating to have to try and grab a DM to hunt a gobbo all the time. Just seems like such a minor thing to waste their time over, yet it's so important to get one because it's PvP all the same.
So yea. [beats the horse a little more for good measure]
Throwing my hat in, would like to see kobolds/goblins return to app only on a temporary basis.
I like the sound of THIS music!
Yes
What I'll throw in here is... Gobsquat. Half the server relies on Goblins to live. Why would you kill a goblin on sight? Maybe you're killing the Chieftain's Messanger. Oops... look what you did wrong now. >_>
I haven't really seen and badly played kobolds and goblins - and I'm quite good at telling how to play kobolds /wrong/ because that's how I usually play them. :(
In any case, all the monsters I met so far were evil, servile, self-serving and callous, and cunning. Most PCs I meet attack almost on sight, and if they don't they tend to have good IC reasons for that.
When I tried playing my first kobold here, everyone attacked me on sight. Maybe one out of ten helped me.
I can only imagine how hard it is for players who do not have the IC fortune of running into the hands of a
Hide
.
In any case, my point is: I am not a DM, but I don't see any of these supposedly badly played kobolds or goblins. It'd be arrogant of me to actually consider some other character badly played because I am not really in a position to judge if someone RPs well or not. I also thought that the no-application policy really, really enriched EfU, and I think it can do so too on EFU: A, like enriching the atmosphere of Lower and encouraging PvP. At best I'd be in favour of temporary applications to see how that works out.
I like this idea too.
While Valium Skies made a few good points, I think making the races app only would still change things. I know it wouldn't directly change the way other PCs react to these monsters, but at least it would guarantee that the players who are playing these races are mainly playing them how they're sort of supposed to be played. I know you shouldn't tell people how to play their characters, but everyone knows cute and cuddly goblins are as common as good drow.
I also think Garem made a very good point. I dislike it very much when people are more than eager to go and slaughter a goblin tribe, but when a PC goblin shows up the very same PCs start defending the PC goblin. I know that again, you shouldn't be telling people how to play their characters (which was the most repeated argument the last time this issue was discussed, if I recall correctly). I would, however, like to hear an IC reasoning behind such behaviour.
The thing I'd also like to point out is that even though these races used to be app only, the apps were very easy to get approved. That's how at least I would like it to be again. It's a good way to keep a good percent of the monsters as vicious as they really are.
Quote from: MisterPAINI am against putting kobold/goblin PCs for app because I'd rather not add frustration for both DM and player to approve 6-9 separate applications for just a typical goblin band.
If you've got a band of 6-9 goblins, you'll probably have some nice goals you might want the DMs to know about anyway.
Quote from: Dopson;86790I like this idea too.
I also think Garem made a very good point. I dislike it very much when people are more than eager to go and slaughter a goblin tribe, but when a PC goblin shows up the very same PCs start defending the PC goblin.
Well one could go the other way with this logic as well when people are more than happy to kill a Goblin PC then turn a blind eye to all the Non hostile goblin NPC'S living next door.
Also at the moment from an Ig perspective there is a very justified reason for having large numbers of Goblin Pc's in that we have a town full of them next door. (Admitadly it might help if new goblin players were allowed to spawn in Goblsquat)
I would like to see PC goblins go away, but I would also like to point out that there is a half-drow NPC who has "civilized" the Gobsquat, which really makes no sense. When I saw the Gobsquat for the first time, I thought to myself, "Hm, I guess the EfU DMs decided that goblins are cute and cuddly after all."
Goblins are either nasty and brutish or they are not. I'm all for making goblins app only, but if that's going to happen I would also like to set fire to the Gobsquat and forget it ever existed.
lol
Ok i thought i might aswell put in an opinion because i think this may be to do with my goblin, Gnarl. To point out that he had 16 int and while he was an evil necro, he was not stupid. Why should an intelligent goblin go around saying he is evil and looking to get attacked by team good. It is not playing badly, just trying to survive long enough to actually fight back. Really if you made goblins app only then I think there would be very little interest in them because they have disadvantages already and applying for them may be quite lengthy.
Quote from: eliff;86822. Really if you made goblins app only then I think there would be very little interest in them because they have disadvantages already and applying for them may be quite lengthy.
Drow, Duergar and whatnot, pretty much any other monstrous race is at this disadvantage. They are monsters and are attacked rightly, on a whim. The extra challenge is/should be part of the deal. If you do not want to be PVP'd for little to no reason, don't play a monster.
I support any monster being app only, imo.
Just to chime in, i'd support any monster PC being app only too. There's already a wide variety of races that we can endorse, have 2 more races doesn't add much more, imo.
Sure it's fun to play a goblin or kobold, but if it doesn't add something really original to the gameworld, then half orcs or any evil PC suit in just fine.
As for PCs dealing with NPCs differently than with PCs, that's not a new issue. EfU had the same one with Lord Bunge for example. Make PC monsters rare, and that will hardly be a problem anymore.
I have to second this, but also add...
I think there is a double standard here. It has to do with red vs blue. In almost every case I've run into on EfU, throughout my entire career, you could take the most foam-at-the-mouth Kobold / Goblin hating PC and throw them at a non-hostile NPC of that race and they'll react differently.
How many EfU Gnomes actually attempted to kill Lord Bunge, for example? How many goblin haters On EfU: A are going to assault Gobsquat? How many PC's who hunted PC kobolds on EfU actually attempted to assault the Shadow Tribe?
Matters only get worse if a DM possesses an NPC. On EfU, you could take the most Drow hating PC around, have a DM possess it and suddenly everyone is willing to chat it up with the NPC.
Almost always this is due to OOC things. A player might assume, for example, that they shouldn't attack the Drow / Goblin / Whatever because the DM is trying to do something important. Or that because it's a DMNPC it's too powerful to actually kill, or that they'll have to deal with the anger of other players for killing off a potential DM quest, etc.
I can only think of one instance where a PC actually attacked a DM controlled goblin. We were saving Edmund the Cleric of Tyr from slavery. A goblin was in the group of slaves, and we had a gnomish Paladin with us. The Paladin refused to bring the goblin back to Sanctuary, but most of the other PC's wanted to take him along and leave him at the gates. The Paladin said no and killed him on the spot. The NPC's reacted negatively calling him a bastard, or saying "Wow, that's harsh." - something like that.
What I think we have here is a disconnect. Either Goblins are evil monsters or they are not. Can Gobsquat -truly- become civilized? Can Goblins as a race ever not be evil?
The EfU Answer to -all- of those questions is: No.
According to EfU Cannon all goblins have what I believe is best called the "evil gene." This means that, outside of rare and exceptional circumstances, every goblin ever born is going to be a murderous, backstabbing, lying and cannibalistic creature. There is no redemption, no hope - it is what it is - just kill it, there is no reason to even talk to it.
The problem that arises is that there are numerous in game examples where this is simply not the case. On EfU we had Lord Bunge. On EfU: A we have Gobsquat.
There are mixed messages being sent. Either they are all evil, murderous savages or they are not.
Putting aside EfU Cannon for a moment and talking specifically as a player and speaking on personal preference I find the "evil gene" silly. In my view alignment is not something you're born with, it is based upon actions. Goblins should be evil, not because they are born that way, but because of their culture. In my view it is like saying all halflings must be like Froddo Baggin's, or that all Elves must be like Legolas. If they are not those things, then they are not real halflings / elves.
As a player, I find it more interesting to believe that Gobsquat -could- potentially become civilized. I like that idea, much more than the alternative, which basically means that the only sensible thing a non-goblin loving PC can do is try and wipe them out. I find the whole "evil gene" concept silly as a whole, and really only think outsiders - and those born / touched by outsiders should cleave toward a certain alignment.
All that being said... EfU Canon states clearly that there is an evil gene. Thus, only in exceptional and rare circumstances will you find a goblin who isn't evil and worthy of being slain on the spot. As a result I do support them becoming application only to ensure that they are played properly.
However, I will point out that in the past when goblins were application only players as a whole were less reluctant to attack them. This was because players OOCly knew that anyone who played a goblin put time and work into getting the goblin. They didn't want to feel lame in killing said goblin before he had a chance to walk three feet outside the OOC Welcome area.
Now, rather than deride the player base on that point, I feel it should be commended. I think it is great and totally awesome that people on this server are taking into consideration the feelings of other players and the work they put into their characters.
At the same time, I think if we are going to be a society of goblin haters, as all non-goblins must be, we should at least see a reflection of this in game. Players should actively be plotting to destroy Gobsquat, because of the evil gene there really is no hope for them at all. I assume this would be common in character knowledge.
Additionally, since all goblins are evil and we want to discourage players from coddling them, evil points toward anyone goblin-coddling should be given. After all you're pretty much coddling an evil little demon.
Long winded post maker should be your title Meldread.
Meldread, Lord bunge for some unknown reason was unkillable, I remember plum and I wanting to organize a group to kill him quite a few times but for some reason we were not allowed to, so instead I just told everybody he a) is exiled for eating a human child and B) sells poisoned goods made of kobold urine.
I'd like for the two races to be ~either~ app races, OR you no longer need a DM to just outright slay them. Tired of having to tolerate kobolds/goblins for the lack of a DM.
Naga is right, Lord Bunge was under DM protections sadly, trust me it came up alot on various gnomes, with various players.
Also I assualted the Shadow Tribe Embassy and more, it happens and I agree that it's a waste of time to have to grab a DM everytime I want to PvP an evil goblin that mostly no NPC would care about. Plus not always are DMs on and ALOT of kobolds/goblins would take advantage of this.
Please tell me which NPC in the Gobsquat is "cute and cuddly." I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't think a setting where every goblin and kobold was a red rushing monster would be as interesting to me as one in which they aren't.
Goblins are evil, yes, but I would say that their form of evil is altogether different than that of a drow, or a demon, or a zombie. I see them as more pathetic than aggressive, in many cases.
Many goblins in EFU will just want to run up and eat you, others may be dominated by stronger NPCs and just stand there picking their nose, at least until they think they can get away with it. Others fear your kind too much to be aggressive, while others may want to use you in some other way, and so on.
I have enjoyed playing with such NPCs as Grulpo, Gobbler, and so on in the Underdark. They are dirty, colorful, rather vile NPCs that PCs can choose to either deal with or not.
I enjoyed building the Gobsquat and the NPCs there likewise. It is a separate, slum-like, dirty, yet-safe-from-monsters area kind of place that I think the server needs. I mean, there's no accounting for taste, but I am a huge fan of "slum" atmospheres and without the Gobsquat we wouldn't have that.
As for them being "civilized," I would think its' fairly obvious they aren't. The more they chatter about the idea of "civilization" and cherish the trash and junk that they think makes them civilized, the more obvious it should be becoming that they are not civilized at all. They are being manipulated and controlled, as many goblins are. In EFU, goblins are often enslaved and held in service to some more complex power that may choose to use them as a weapon, or as slaves, or sersvants, etc. Anyway, there's plot to be explored there, and I don't think I need to spoil it OOC.
Are the Gobsquat goblins dangerous? Yes. Are they as dangerous as orcs would be, or demons? No.
The evil of goblins is, I don't think, so much the baby-stealing, human-eating characteristic (although that is certainly there, in varying degrees) but rather their lack of morality, their cowardice, their lack of empathy, their grotesque nature, their penchant for cruelty, and so on.
Do I think many characters in EFUA will not trust Gobsquat and seek to avoid it? Absolutely. Do I think every non-evil needs to focus on destroying it? No, not really. I think many PCs would understand that while no goblin can be trusted, some are more dangerous than others. Every hour some kind of ancient magical device tears innocents from their former life to deposit them on a dangerous island, every nightfall terrible ancient skeletons emerge from the ruins to do battle with the living, every day terrible monsters roam the wilds beyond... surely these, and the many (many!) other things in EFUA would be of more pressing concern.
At least, all that is my view.
Regarding PC goblin/kobolds, I think the problem is exaggerated. The case that actually inspired this post was mostly one of misunderstanding, in which conflict arose because one character wanted to kill a goblin NOW rather than beat it up LATER.
Still, we are going to move towards disabling them as app-free. If nothing else it should help cut down on the amount of time DMs need to spend on monitoring PvP.
If there's really a strong feeling about people in the playerbase that they dislike the idea of non-hostile goblins/kobolds and don't want to see them in EFUA, I'd welcome discussion on it, but for me (and I guess this is just a matter of taste) I think they add color and flavor and more of the "grey" that the FR often lacks.
Quote from: Garem;86712"you are frustrated because you are somehow forced (by what??) to fd people despite the fact you don't like it?"
I am not forced by anything, but I am compelled to fight and kill them because it is what my character ought to do. He never hesitates to pepper a goblin out in the woods with arrows, as damned near every PC does. Why should my attitude towards a race change just because they aren't instantly set to hostile by being a PC monster. Hell, they're CLOSER to the city and the people and thus should be considered MORE dangerous and MORE worthy of peppering with arrows.
And one more thing to add: it's frustrating to have to try and grab a DM to hunt a gobbo all the time. Just seems like such a minor thing to waste their time over, yet it's so important to get one because it's PvP all the same.
So yea. [beats the horse a little more for good measure]
It isn't about fding them, it is about fding them and then saying you don't like it. Obviously you don't dislike it, or you wouldn't fd. There are plenty of ways to not go on a monster pc hunting rampage and still be consistent with your character. Like, giving them a chance to escape thanks to a "mistake" of your character.
I have a question for people who complain about how the monster pcs are played. Is the problem the way they BEHAVE? Like, they could LOOK good, but actually BE evil? Or is the problem they aren't evil AT ALL?
I try to keep as much OOC influence out of my IC action. Some is neccessary, but conveniently letting every monster PC run away... I mean, how am I supposed to make my swings less accurate or arrows NOT hit them? Plus, I feel obligated in some way TO attack monster PCs. They should WANT to be attacked! That's what makes playing them so damned fun, is that most people hate your stinky guts! If I don't challenge them at every turn, try to beat the pathetic life out of them, I'm just stealing away from THEIR experience of playing a dirty monster.
As for your last series of questions, I would say it is mostly the latter, although the first question posed also occurs as well. Have you ever seen a kobold have a friend? Theoretically, and according to canon FR lore, kobolds lack the capacity to LOVE other. That's a BIG deal, and makes having "friends" impossible! They can't love at all! No romantic love, no fraternal love, no paternal love.
"When I tried playing my first kobold here, everyone attacked me on sight. Maybe one out of ten helped me." - Jasede
You play kobolds fine, and I have no doubts that you'd get any kobold you wanted passed. At the time of your coming to this server, iirc, kobolds and goblins had just been made non-app and people hunted them all the time just because half the server consisted of monsters. That's not the case anymore, and the number of PC monster killers is much less.
Quote from: eliff;86822To point out that he had 16 int and while he was an evil necro, he was not stupid. Why should an intelligent goblin go around saying he is evil and looking to get attacked by team good.
Thats part of the point here. Humans, elves and dwarves are not stupid either and if they see a single goblin talking his way out of a beating or death they know he's doing it to save his ass not because he's actually good. You admit he was evil, most playable races and classes are smart enough to know he's evil, even if he says, "I no eat nobody! No kill me!"
I guess it's a little late to throw in my 2 cents. I know most disagree, but I like the idea of goblins and kobolds being non-app accessible. From my own experiences, I've had good interactions with both kobolds and goblins on the island.
I like what they add to the atmosphere. You -know- they're evil (or you can at least assume so). So we can all act like Paladins towards them. You don't need to treat them kindly, and you shouldn't trust them. Even if you don't cut them down on the spot, there are plenty of ways to make your disdain for them known.
I also like how they can be turned into slaves and servants, which creates interesting character conflict between all sorts of PCs.
Their commonality feels appropriate to the setting. When I see a goblin or kobold (which isn't too infrequently), I don't feel repressed at all in how I should treat their character accordingly.
Anyways. I like them as they are, and I think a couple isolated incidents are giving them a bad rep, but this shouldn't undue the potential they have to add to the setting. Just my 2 cents.
Howland,
Don't get me wrong. I love Gobsquat. When I found the Goblin-Priestess-Of-Sune Wannabe, it was love at first sight. My PC was ICly repulsed, but OOCly I laughed out loud and loved it. My problem is largely an OOC one.
I love the Goblin Sunite so much, I actually -want- to see her get spells. I don't -want- to kill her because she's so totally awesome. She is hands down so far my most favorite NPC on the server.
Yet, ICly to my PC she is so utterly repulsive and defaming the name of Sune so badly, there is little reason I shouldn't strangle her to death where she stands.
I like Gobsquat. I like that they want to try and act civilized. I just find it disappointing that, because of the "evil gene" they'll never be successful, even with a great amount of PC effort. Ultimately, as well, once we get ourselves organized and whatnot, it's inevitable for the PC's to band together and wipe Gobsquad out.
After all, goblins are evil, it's pointless to try and civilize them, and the moment we don't have to depend on them is the moment they die. Which means said awesome Sunite NPC is no more.
I also feel that there is an OOC pressure to slaughter all monsters senselessly simply because they are evil. It feels to me as if someone wanted the appearance of racism without actual racism. Like, they wanted you to hate goblins and slaughter goblins, but at the same time have the ability to do it with a clean conscience. It kills any moral ambiguity.
If goblins are, and will forever be inherently evil, why not strangle every goblin baby in its cradle? It makes perfectly justifiable sense to do so ICly, and to do so with a clear conscience that they were born evil.
I agree with you - I love grey morality. That is the reason I feel the way that I do. But I know once our settlement no longer has to depend on them, they'll be wiped out - it's inevitable. My PC, assuming he's still alive, would likely be highly supportive of that effort. Even as OOCly, I'd much rather be trying to civilize them, and working toward getting that Sunite Goblin some divine power from Sune.
Why? Because they're so awesome and interesting. But because I both ICly and OOCly know it's impossible - they're innately evil and thus can never be saved - there is no reason to even try, or even give it consideration.
Quote from: Thomas_Not_very_wise;86663Look, I know they are great fun, the occasional goblin and kobold horde is great.
Honestly, people are playing these races wrong. They are universally evil, should be hated, loathed, and abused and murdered on site. You DON"T strike up a conversation with a goblin, you should ignore it, attack it, and send it running.
Since the player base seems to not get the idea, and goblin/kobold players aren't playing them right, I propose to revert them to application only.
Thank you.
I subscribe each word.
Goblins/kobolds are fun, but is not possible, that be much numerous than standard races. On EfU was separated, but here we live all together.