This thread is not to contest anything, for I am just going to put here something that bothers me, and want to hear other players' opinions, but yet, I have no ideas of a solution. The almighty warriors and heroes of the server, seem to be nothing without their potions. Even those who claim to be of the 'Old Ways' (which includes no usage or dependant of magic to live) drink tons of arcane potions to aid them in the combat. It is like "Yes, I am brave, and I fight well, but let me drink my potion collection before this challange, because I am nothing without them". This makes all of them look silly, it is like the Gummie Bears and Their Gummy Berry Magical Potion. So, techinaclly the skills of a warrior, or might of a barbarian, matters little, for the fight victors seem to be those who are richer, have more resources and used the right potions at the right time, it is a fight of resources. All this, in mechanics, seem to be very necessary, but in the RP, just make the warriors look weak, and those caliming themselves of 'The Old Ways' liars and hypocrats.
Awesome use of a Gummy Bear Analogy, imo.
The fact of the matter is NWN is designed, and EFU in particular, for consumables to be used. Making a character who never used potions would be an interesting challenge, but a very difficult one at that.
Who ever got more stats and bonuses, either via gear or pots and spells, will win.
Or not, if you got more in numbers!
PVP, unless its the invis gank style, will often be who drinks fastest, mixed with pre-buffing and PC level. Not sure that can be avoided.
As you will see from our more experienced players, when they post screenshots, almost all of their primary shortcuts are potions, rarely a wand or item in there. It is a basic of PVP and PVE that if you chug a range of specific potions in the correct order your chances of survival are far greater, in alomst all situations.
In regard to people RP'ing that they "don't use/like magic" etc. if your PC would call them out on it, do so, call them a hypocrite and liar IG.
This has always annoyed me as well. Somewhat like if professional athletes all injected themselves with 10 types of performance enhancers for a contest, openly, and then the winner claims it had nothing to do with his being able to afford more and better ones than the others.
This is just silly.
Quote from: Nihm;122743This has always annoyed me as well. Somewhat like if professional athletes all injected themselves with 10 types of performance enhancers for a contest, openly, and then the winner claims it had nothing to do with his being able to afford more and better ones than the others.
This is just silly.
Finally someone that agrees with me! Yeah, I just posted that because it bothers me, and I wanted to know if I was the only one.
Quote from: artfuldodger99;122742... In regard to people RP'ing that they "don't use/like magic" etc. if your PC would call them out on it, do so, call them a hypocrite and liar IG.
Yeah, I usually do that... And they usually claim the need in extreme circumnstances. Oh well ...
It's InCharacter. Treat it how you will.
Characters that don't use magic, healing, buffing, or otherwise, will not survive most tasks. The game is designed in a world full of magic and fantasy creatures. Without making use of some of the worlds natural and magical defenses, you'll not hope to survive against those fantastic monsters.
In my honest opinion, one should not forsake /magic/-- Its like giving up air. Who tells the war-priest not to bless their fight, when the god of war may be watching? I mean, seriously.
The use of consumables is on old theme, that is very hard to balance.
The lack of IC consistency is another, a touchy one, too. Most people probably agree to your post, but then again, staying lvl3 all the time sucks.
Quote from: Ebok;122747It's InCharacter. Treat it how you will.
In my honest opinion, one should not forsake /magic/-- Its like giving up air. Who tells the war-priest not to bless their fight, when the god of war may be watching? I mean, seriously.
Actually you may have misunderstood me. I am talking about -potions- . All the silly potion buffing before engaging important combats. The warpriest's blessings are part of his own skill, as the battle sorcerer's blood power, or the wizard, etc. It's like you can shove potions into a chicken's mouth and make it into a war machine.
QuoteThis has always annoyed me as well. Somewhat like if professional athletes all injected themselves with 10 types of performance enhancers for a contest, openly, and then the winner claims it had nothing to do with his being able to afford more and better ones than the others.
This is just silly.
Professional athletes do not depend on random die rolls.
Hey guys, what alignment is batman?
Batman is pretty much chaotic, I would like to say good, but I would go for neutral.
He does not follow order, but rather pursues his own sense of justice for somekind ideal of good, which sometimes isn't exactly what goes on.
I'd throw chaotic neutral with points towards good :P
Quote from: Reposa_FoxThe almighty warriors and heroes of the server, seem to be nothing without their potions. So, techinaclly the skills of a warrior, or might of a barbarian, matters little, for the fight victors seem to be those who are richer, have more resources and used the right potions at the right time, it is a fight of resources.
I'm curious to hear how you think these warriors became rich and got those potions in the first place, and where skill comes into play from clicking on your enemy once and letting the engine roll dice.
Quote from: Winston Martin;122762I'm curious to hear how you think these warriors became rich and got those potions in the first place, and where skill comes into play from clicking on your enemy once and letting the engine roll dice.
There are several ways to become rich, and stocking up on potions, most of them are powerquesting, and stealing loot OOCly, without even emoting it, which is something I see very often. So the way to get it, is also mechanical. People can even get patricianship status that way, without even have to RP for the title. But that is another subject.
As for the skill, I am talking about the character's skill, not the player. The player skills would be just of using feats or skills, like kd, taunt, etc, at the right time, but still, I was talking about the character. Who seems to be considered "A GREAT WARRIOR" after drinking magical potions, made by a wizard.
The vast majority of normal "duels" are without potions or spells, so skill at leveling and building comes into play far more than affording potions. As for "all-out duels" there are tons of ways beyond just potions to get a pretty wicked advantage if you just think about it. I had a char that won a lot of various types of duels with a wide variety of techniques, items, and strategies.
And if it's just regular old kill-or-be-killed PvP, then there are countless more ways to be effective.
I think epic fights using potions could be changed if people had epic duels to the death without potions!
Quote from: Pup;122766The vast majority of normal "duels" are without potions or spells, so skill at leveling and building comes into play far more than affording potions. As for "all-out duels" there are tons of ways beyond just potions to get a pretty wicked advantage if you just think about it. I had a char that won a lot of various types of duels with a wide variety of techniques, items, and strategies.
And if it's just regular old kill-or-be-killed PvP, then there are countless more ways to be effective.
I have never seen an important duel or events without potions or trinkets. Like DeSonnac's, and some others. Or that tournment day against beasts, most characters won then because of potions, while the beasts would just eat them without the potions. Like the 'Wyvern Slayer' for instance. In 'Blood for Targus' the almighty greatest warrior of the island Vlad showed the great power of arcane potions, even being a man of 'Ze Old Vays'... Yeah, well, there are trinkets that are used too, I would put them in the same cathegory of potions.
Then again, as I said, I am not trying to change anything, or asking for explanations of why it is like it is, I was just saying that this bothers me, and trying to find out if people shared the same opinion as me.
Quote from: Raposa_Fox;122768Yeah, well, there are trinkets that are used too, I would put them in the same cathegory of potions.
So you're saying that you'd prefer people to not use items of any kind?
Quote from: Pup;122770So you're saying that you'd prefer people to not use items of any kind?
No, I am trying to say that an item that gives any character of any class or race ghostly visage, for instance, is just as the same as a blur potion. Isn't it?
What I find utterly ridiculous is that drinking potions takes less time than using magic items. What can you do faster? Uncork a bottle, drop your weapon because you need a free hand, remove your helm, drinking, then throwing the bottle away and picking up your weapon again? Or activate a magical item just by touching it, without even needing to drop the weapon? I can't believe the same guys who made the great game that is NWN made such a mistake. Then duels look more like two drunkards competing to see who can drink faster than an actual duel.
You're making fun at a character for roleplaying a fear of magic and not, obviously, understanding as deeply as YOU, a player, do.
For him, magic can be feared and dangerous when it is manipulated by another and he doesn't understand it very well.
When it is in passive form, such as a totem or a brew, an oil or a tonic, well, it can pass as medicinal and be understood for its applications.
Even if YOU, the player, KNOW its the same spell being casted in the two instances. The character can interpret them as very distinct experiences.
Uthgart (sp?) forsakes magic. Does his worshipers interpret it in different ways? Yes. Some see magic as the aid of spirits from the various tribes coming to help them in the midst of battle. Curative tonic are seen as medecinal...
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Saying it's all due to potions and none of the character/player's ability is defeatist and just finding ways to attack anothers' success, or finding external reasons to why they won, and you didn't.
You'll never improve if you think everything is externally determined. Why? Well, because if it's externally determined and you can't change these factors too much.
But in the midst of battle, under stress, it's SO much more than that. Especially in pvp, a split second decision can be the difference between defeat and victory.
I remember when fighting Plopliblop with Agrael. Our first battle lasted 15-30 seconds. I tried 3 different tactics during that lapse of time to bring her down. None worked. Under the pressure, I made a few errors during that battle and the dice weren't on my side this day so I lost. I misclicked one disabling spell for another and forgot to equip an armor more appropriate to fighting her than the one I had. Also forgot to use a Divine Power potion (Go figure!).
When under pressure, nothing is simple. Raise the risks of any event, raise the pressure and people will make mistakes. I took responsibility for those errors above and they cost me a LOT, but at least I didn't feel hopeless and I knew I could rectify and learn from them.
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But it's cool that you think consumeables play a large part in any battle because they do and should. This should also make you think that whatever your build, you can have a chance at being useful due to these very consumeables. Hence, feeding the arguments for Roleplay Before Build.