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We're trying to make some of our factions more fun/desirable to play in, as well as communicate better what they're all about.

What follows is an edited version of an internal document that I figured we may as well let you guys take a look at, both so you can have a slightly better sense of setting knowledge and also a better sense of what the House Sharboneth faction is about and how we're looking to fine-tune its structure.

Any comments or other ideas for how to improve this faction would be welcome in this thread.


PLEASE NOTE - this is for the future, and should not be considered IC knowledge _yet_ and can be confusing for instance we used to call everyone who worked for the House a retainer, whereas what we're proposing is the invention of something somewhat new.

QuoteHouse Sharboneth
A predominantly LN noble house based out of Old Port, rumored to be facing serious financial problems as well as political uncertainty. The House is greatly  concerned with settling and developing Ymph as a way to increase its failing financial fortunes.
- Leadership: Lord Alemander Sharboneth (living in Old Port), Governor Zacharias Sharboneth (governor of the colony, mostly related to Court), Marshall Isengrim Sharboneth (day to day operations), Arthur Penn
- Advantages: Legally owns the entire Colony
- Disadvantages: Weak militarily, struggling financially, not fully established politically

Proposed Ranking Structure:
For the soldierly division, all except Deputies receive salaries
Deputy (no app required, can be granted by any PC, minor gear provided)
Man-at-Arms: Initial induction (equivalent to Watch Private)
Sergeant-at-Arms: Established (equivalent to Watch Sergeant). Granted patrician rights.
Master of Arms: Major leader type (equivalent to Watch Lieutenant)
Marshall: in charge of all soldiers on Ymph (equivalent to Watch Sheriff)

For the retainer division
Retainer: receives no salary, but is predominantly focused on advancing the cause of the House rather than acting as law enforcement or soldier. Outranks Sergeant-at-Arms, but is outranked by Master of Arms. Wizards and non-fighter types would fall into this slot. Granted patrician rights.
Master Retainer: A highly trusted and powerful retainer. This is a prestigious position. Receives a salary.

Medals:
Each medal has a spell 1/day, and it is considered very prestigious to get them all. Rumored that Lord Alemander himself will want to meet any member of the House who earns all medals..
- Champion of the Law (catching major criminals)
- Champion of the Island (success with resource exploitation/control)
- Champion of the Shield (defending the Colony against major threats)
- Champion of the Sword (earns a reputation as a highly skilled warrior, whether in campaigns against others or in tournaments, etc.)
- Champion of the Purse (economic development)
- Champion of the House (advances the cause of the House in some way)
- Champion of the Host (recruits and brings in new members)

So what players do in the faction:

- Recruit and make sure Dms aren't slacking with faction inductions
- Law enforcement, targeting criminals, etc.
- Collecting bounties and posting bounties, etc.
- Defense of the colony, recruiting PC factions to help the House, etc.
- Speaking for the House in plots or other PC-initiatives
- Claim territory, find resources, identify means to earn income for the House
- Go on quests "in the name of House Sharboneth" (or go exploring in the "name of House Sharboneth")
- Earn medals
- Pursue ranks - whether honestly, or by bribing other PC members to recommend them, etc.
- DM plots
- Using the faction as a perk used to pursue interesting storylines, goals, and plots for that specific PC

This document is kind of an ooc "Cheat-sheet" for what we'd like the faction to be, and will hopefully be of some help to you.

I'd like to see their military struggling more obvious, so they should be a lot less eager to join in a fight, for example, what happened with Vlad, the Sergeant just bullrushed in like any NPC, I would figure that if they were struggling militarily, they would of stayed behind the walls and let the Stygians take the beating.


Also, NPC casualties should have a bigger impact on the faction, so that NPC casualties in massive Group VS Group PvP isn't overlooked as 'oh another NPC died, ah well, wait 'till reset'


Though the Sharborneths are quite cool by themselves, I love the idea of medals, makes it seem like you can do something cool and have a tangible reward as a sign of veterancy.

The Deputy concept is cool as well, I highly like the idea. I recomend anyone wanting to get into some plotline as a first, this is a good place to start. It's not as much for 'elite' as say, the Armada or Order, but it is a great place to learn. I find the Law Enforcement factions taught me more than others about how to play EfU.

QuoteAlso, NPC casualties should have a bigger impact on the faction, so that NPC casualties in massive Group VS Group PvP isn't overlooked as 'oh another NPC died, ah well, wait 'till reset'

Not to get off on a tangent, but we did remove NPCs from the module immediately to reflect those that died (although most were dm-killed by RWG, who is still learning the client, because they got AI bugged).

You appear to have a chip on your shoulder about the incident, so please contact me privately and we can hash it out without disrupting this thread.

QuotePLEASE NOTE - this is for the future, and should not be considered IC knowledge _yet_ and can be confusing for instance we used to call everyone who worked for the House a retainer, whereas what we're proposing is the invention of something somewhat new.

This is just what we're working with, opening up the floor for suggestions and comments before we implement. The hope is that the faction really takes off and becomes a lot more fun to play in, so let us know if you have ideas for how to make that happen.

I love the more political, actual-noble house feel this gives! Medals, titles, earning the prestige of your Lord! It feels very actual-fantasy, and as amazing as the Watch was, it makes them look stunningly modern to me!

Perhaps also focus on the cash issues. For instance there are various mines and fields ect spread throughout the island. If the House members go out and hold that land for say x time frame start to see retainers and workers move in to exploit the resources. I cant think of any number of DM quests and player plots that can spawn from this as various groups try aid / hinder the House's efforts to expliot the natural resources of the island for profit.

Achem. A small point I would like to adress.

THIS FACTION IS HELD WITH THE DUTY TO UPHOLD THE LAW, PURSUE CRIMINALS, AND OTHER THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

WHILE IT IS ALL WELL AND GOOD TO HAVE SOME CORRUPTION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, I SWEAR TO WHAT EVER GOD YOU WORSHIP I WILL START DOING NUMEROUS THINGS OF SINISTER NATURE IF ALL WE GET ARE COUNTER-SHARBONETH APPLICATIONS.

MAKE PCS THAT ARE PRO-FACTION TO COUNTER BALANCE THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PLAY CORRUPT BASTARDS WITH CRIMINAL BUDDIES AND EVERYTHING WILL BE SMOOTH, FUN, AND AWESOME

Adjusts his tie and hair

Achem. Good day.

Aww... We can't have an entire faction full of moles for Caddies all spying on each other? Pooh. :P

Hauling myself back on the original topic:
I like it!

My favourite thing about the Archaeological Society as a DM faction was the opportunity to advance withing a faction without needing to be a combat build. There were ranks, goals to reach them and they were based on RP, usually exploring and writing.

In the same way that that faction opened up an advancement system to scolarly characters, this is a DM faction that can give business/diplomat characters DM faction support. The idea of official recognition for political/economic goals is cool. It's definitely got me thinking of a trader or prospector type PC in the future.

I would like to add as someone who has had a character in the faction for a long time recently, the weak military part/discipline etc is quite obvious when you're in it.

These snippets of in-house info on the faction are a good thing to publish in order to spark interest! I encourage everyone to really consider joining with any new PC they have planned, a strong and public law enforcement faction is the pillar of any good interfactional atmosphere.

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;124137Aww... We can't have an entire faction full of moles for Caddies all spying on each other? Pooh. :P

Corrupt PCs are very interesting in many aspects. The problem that arises is that Corrupt PCs often have the most fun when people are trying to thwart their corrupt efforts.

If there are no uncorrupt PCs to do such, that job usually falls to us. As we have access to most plots and such, this makes that job rather daunting. We already know what they're doing and such. A PC vs. PC conflict is full of mystery. Myster = Intrigue = Conflict = Win

In an ideal world we would have a few corrupt PCs and a few uncorrupt PCs. This way it wouldn't be us thwarting them but other PCs would.

I would love nothing more than to see the faction full of Pcs, with a tight nit group of corrupt PCs counter-plotting against a group of tight nit loyal PCs.

That way NPCs can throw their weight against both sides some upperlevels are naturally corrupt and some against and a good deal of plotting can be done by everyone and as a DM I can watch everything unfold like a movie.

In a faction full of corrupt PCs that means we have to use NPCs to reign things in and at times that can make PCs uncomfortable. And means we have to spend more time on the faction to make the process feel "Legitimate" as Corrupt PCs are counter-active to the focus of the Faction.

It creates more work for us which is all well and good, and a finely played Corrupt PC is a beautiful thing, but I'd much rather see PCs doing the job than we having to.

I was joking RwG. That first part was a *joke*. There's obviously no point in a faction filled with spies for other factions, that's like something out of Paranoia not EfU :D.

The emoticon made that painfully obvious, Yes.

Just was clarifying the point, as it had been brought up elsewhere as well.

I want to see more foppish diplomats.
 
A typical image I keep seeing pretty much everywhere, is that, when inter-faction negotiations are involved, even when they're just a band of dumb mercenaries, the person with the highest level is sent and emerges a splendid negotiator.
 
This completely passes the point that 'negotiator' could be a class on its own. If a fighter-club guild goes negotiating, I don't want to see a rude dwarf at the table, I want to see 16 CHA PCs with 20 ranks in Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate, sprinkling gifts over everybody's heads.
 
And if a moron busts in and starts killing people, every negotiator dies unless they brought a decent bodyguard (who stands by the side, quietly, occasionally making an asshole of himself).
 
 
 
The retainer role would fit this concept, but I think it should be present in pretty much every faction.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the players supposed to modify the factions with their behaviour? As you tell us there are so many corrupt PCs arround the faction, rather than trying to hold it back through DM means, encourage it by modifiying the module to represent the damage made by the corruption in the faction. RP wise it makes sence that if House Saboneth basically employs 90% corrupt officers, then the colony would suffer concecuences, not enough money (all stolen by the corrupt) Deals with organisded crime, porwer to some kingpings.. etc. If this doesn't collapse the city, it will lead good-dooer PCs to take the matter on their own hands and finish off with the corruption, a revolution maybe? it would be a lot cooler to do that instead of hiding it, could be a good server-wide DM event, and in the end eveythin would solve itself (i belive).

Quote from: Drakill Tannan;124274Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't the players supposed to modify the factions with their behaviour? As you tell us there are so many corrupt PCs arround the faction, rather than trying to hold it back through DM means, encourage it by modifiying the module to represent the damage made by the corruption in the faction. RP wise it makes sence that if House Saboneth basically employs 90% corrupt officers, then the colony would suffer concecuences, not enough money (all stolen by the corrupt) Deals with organisded crime, porwer to some kingpings.. etc. If this doesn't collapse the city, it will lead good-dooer PCs to take the matter on their own hands and finish off with the corruption, a revolution maybe? it would be a lot cooler to do that instead of hiding it, could be a good server-wide DM event, and in the end eveythin would solve itself (i belive).

PCs usually only represent a small fraction of the faction's total membership, though. Something to keep in mind!

That's dull, though. The faction will not thrive, it will just be dry-looted by PCs that could be awesome if they weren't a mass, and the DMs will have to spend all their time fighting against corrupt players, something that normally, awesome non-corrupt PCs could do. The point of the server is to have fun, and things like this, everyone playing subraces, and griefing do not make fun. Some lines have to be drawn.

While the discussion on Corruption is fun we're getting off topic.

Suggestions on what Howl wrote/etc, would be welcomed.

What would You guys[/b] like to see?

More opportunities for classes that are not combat oriented, or characters that are not. The retainer option for non-combat oriented is alright, but if that is an app required sect, they receive no pay for doing the same job?

Quote from: Relinquish;124294More opportunities for classes that are not combat oriented, or characters that are not. The retainer option for non-combat oriented is alright, but if that is an app required sect, they receive no pay for doing the same job?

The retainer post is far more complex and different than Armsmen.

Well the specific differences weren't listed so, care to list them? (Or am I blind? X.X)

QuoteFor the retainer division
Retainer: receives no salary, but is predominantly focused on advancing the cause of the House rather than acting as law enforcement or soldier. Outranks Sergeant-at-Arms, but is outranked by Master of Arms. Wizards and non-fighter types would fall into this slot. Granted patrician rights.
Master Retainer: A highly trusted and powerful retainer. This is a prestigious position. Receives a salary.

Posted right there in the first one!

I like that the Sharborneth faction will leave being just a 'watered-down watch', pardon the term to any offended, to an actual noble house with divisions for non-combatants.

One thing I might suggest is to have 'specializations' for certain military. For example, most footsoldiers are that, footsoldiers, but there should be some specialization, for example, 'spec-ops' (IE, spellswords, priests, and people who are good for rapid-response) might be in a different division with pretty much it's own heirarchy. Perhaps the military forces should be divided into companies with their own officers, traditions, etc.? Right now it feels too much like NPC's of a guard not knowing the other NPC right next door. Perhaps some rivalries between groups, like Armsmen grumbling about Retainers having 'the easier job' given as Retainers would be diplomats and rarely get beat up.

There's plenty of opportunity to really make the faction cooler than it is right now. What I listed above I think will help a lot.

What I am partially gleaning from Howland and RWG's posts (and I may be completely off-base here, please correct me if so!) is that you would like to see more Sharboneth faction PCs that lean towards the good end of the alignment axis, to counter the many "corrupt" influences and create better overall balance.

Do I have that right?

More lawful and Neutral

Furthering the cause of the house meaning what? The most I understand about them is they're here to make money, but are failing so far.

Less reliant on other factions, keeping the dregs in their place, mo' public support, mo' land, mo' money.
Same as any government. :P

Tangible ways to get tangible benefits for them. Donate 2000 gold to them? You get to place an NPC armsman in the module to replace a lost one. Secure a contract bringing in profit for the House? Same thing.

The same goes for killing stuff, ya know? Kill one in the module, one is taken out.


Sandstorm is too serious imo.
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I would be somewhat wary about that. While it is a good thing that when major events happen, the guards be updated appropriately, I am unsure how constructive it would be to remove the guards every time someone decided to gank one, or they died to NPCs, or in a battle, because they were not possessed or had silly AI.

Giving salaries to retainers would be a pretty decent way to draw people.  Is there an especially good reason that they aren't payed?

Retainers serve for the cause, not for the coin.

That's why they've got more status, I'd assume

I think those are some very nice ideas. Thanks for sharing them with the playerbase and asking for feedback.

As I know from other factions, having many ranks and divisions makes it even more important for them to be well populated by PCs.  

I think the medal system is a good way to motivate players to achieve.  On one hand I wonder if there is anything more that can get players motivated to join, on the other I can barely count all the perks already in place.

I encourage people to join the DM factions.

Retainers not being payed is stupid. They officially work for the house and should get paid for it. I previously played a 'retainer' that was 100% not an armsman and I got paid, assuming I decided to wear the clothing that made no sense. Either way, if you're going to put these things in as applications, they deserve rewards other than some title that is hardly respected because of the factions nature.

Quote from: VanillaPudding;124388Retainers not being payed is stupid. They officially work for the house and should get paid for it. I previously played a 'retainer' that was 100% not an armsman and I got paid, assuming I decided to wear the clothing that made no sense. Either way, if you're going to put these things in as applications, they deserve rewards other than some title that is hardly respected because of the factions nature.

I really don't think that it is stupid at all! Quite a few factions receive no salary - I would imagine that Retainers would receive some sort of tithe or commission for good works that they do for the House, yet they are 'employed' as such.

I am guessing the DMs envision Retainers to actually work for the House out of a sense of loyalty to their liegelord (being Alemander, in this case)- which is, for me at least, a sweet concept. Personally, if you're only applying for a faction because you get a salary, or if getting one is so important that you consider applying 'not worth it' if you don't, you probably shouldn't be applying in the first place.

Either way, I highly doubt Retainers won't get renumerated for excellent service to the House anyway; but rather than being mere gold pieces, I assume their rewards might be of a nature suited to the reason they serve in the first place; things like marriages into the noble family, holdings, titles, status, etc.

The more traditionally medieval it gets, the better!

I think the faction looks excellent i like the medal system and weaknesses that PC's can seek to address.
 
I also like the fact that there is a difference between the various armsmen and the Retainers. The slight differences between how these two gives lots of potential rivalry. Retainers being politically motivated and ambitious (but not paid), getting their position by luck or status (app) and the Armsmen, stoic and hard working and making their way up from the bottom.

I love the more political, actual-noble house feel this gives! Medals, titles, earning the prestige of your Lord! It feels very actual-fantasy, and as amazing as the Watch was, it makes them look stunningly modern to me!

Medals and the long term process of advancement promotes the holding of long term characters, which in turn promotes the faction and drives inter faction conflict. -ANYTHING THAT PROMOTES FACTION GOWTH, FACTION LONGEVITY, AND CHARACTER LONGEVITY IS L33T.-

First off, discount any previous experience you may have had, it isn't particularly relevant to what we're moving towards.

The reason "Retainers" don't get paid is because it is a more prestigious position than starting off as an Armsman. If you apply to be a "Retainer" and get inducted, you start off as higher ranking than all the grunt soldiers/guards. Instead of being expected to focus on issues like civil defense/law enforcement (which can be expensive), the idea is that you're sort of an agent of the House that's expected to act more independently to pursue the House's agenda.

Trade-offs are important. If you succeed as a Retainer, demonstrating the initiative/independence that is desired from the position, then you can become a Master Retainer and start to receive a salary.

Outranking literally tons/most pcs is a big deal as well as representing the house. Im sure their will be rewards here and their if you do well!

I'm not sure if that's on topic, but the Sharb. faction isn't appealling to me at all, because it's neutral, and therefore seems to draw "everyone" and it's contrary, making it confused on it's goals - apart from the law enforcement which is pretty clear.

And since i can't imagine a LG working for a house that supports lots of bad things, so it only seems natural that the only people attracted to the house are neutral or evil (LN, N, NE, basically). That's why i guess there's more 'corrupt' people and less people to counter balance those.

What i would like to see is a Noble House that has a clear opinion on religions, a clear opinion on "what land are we going to submit now?", a clear goal on "what are we building next in the colony?", a clear taxing system that will piss off people, and so on, a clear list of restricted items (to promote smugglers, for ex.). I don't see it, though i admit i don't look very close.

In ye olden times, junior officers were often paid less than the enlisted men as a method of keeping the great unwashed out of the officer class.
The logic applies nicely to retainers!
None of that meritocracy palaver.

Quote from: Letsplayforfun;124448And since i can't imagine a LG working for a house that supports lots of bad things, so it only seems natural that the only people attracted to the house are neutral or evil (LN, N, NE, basically). That's why i guess there's more 'corrupt' people and less people to counter balance those.

What i would like to see is a Noble House that has a clear opinion on religions, a clear opinion on "what land are we going to submit now?", a clear goal on "what are we building next in the colony?", a clear taxing system that will piss off people, and so on, a clear list of restricted items (to promote smugglers, for ex.). I don't see it, though i admit i don't look very close.

There have been a handful of successful non-evil PCs since the house really became a faction, and I'd like to see more.  This sort of mix keeps the intra conflict high, and can lead to some very cool stuff that was outlined earlier.  

As for the second part, I'm pretty sure that the House has all of that, except maybe the clear stance on religion.  Even that is pretty much a vague 'whatever promotes the will of the Governor is good kind of thing, but I wouldn't mind seeing some cool priests try to make their faith the only legal one on the colony with Sharboneth's blessing.  I'm fairly sure there is a tax system of some kind in place, and it's only a matter of rolling up a PC and making that into law.

Letsplayforfun, I don't think of House Sharboneth as Nuetral as much as really really lawful.  In my mind the ultimate lawful alignment is Lawful Nuetral, all that matters is law, the good or evil implications aren't as important as maintaining order and ensuring the populace are also protected by the laws already in place.

Sharboneth really comes across to me as twisted and evil all the way up the ladder, but that's just me.

The Watch on efu rocked because they held an indisputable importance to the city. Sharboneths look more like rich tools that just so happened to have bought this dump and everyone in it.

What needs to be seen is, What does this faction stand against? What issues does it have with the other factions? (within the watch it was a constant battle against seekers and spellguards or with one or the other, and allot of the awesome came from changing tides. But you could see these tides from outside the faction!) You knew the watch had to protect against the big baiddies that surrounded the city. You knew that there were people inside and people outside that were wanting to damage the city in some regard, these required finding. Criminals were not rare becuase half the server (literally) was entirely against this faction. Lower and the Watch created allot of storied that I'm sure the DM team is more yawn about. But which wouldve sucked without.

Here, the DM information basically says Sharbs suck on their own, they rely on the other two DM factions. We dont really see why. Sure joining it might reveal more, but that hardly attracts people to interact with them. Or more importantly, against them.

If Sharbs need both the Armada and the Order, then they cannot really provoke conflict with either. Leaving the factions of "opposition" to be nearly entirely Player concepts. Three DM factions against a player? I mean, why?