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Totally appreciate some of the script-based reasons, I can imagine it's a bit of a fuss to code in exceptions.

maybe one new player every couple of years will comment upon this issue in particular but as far as I can recall everyone has grown to understand and embrace our ways.

I'd suggest maybe it's a "Because the rest of the stuff is so good, they suffer through it.", as I'm trying to do!

Everything else I totally respect as unique server things - no parties is fine, no 'dump loot into vendor' is a weird but totally understandable idea that prevents a more MMO economy, it's all good. All the unique stuff is understandable. I just really like having my outfits match my RP and help tell a character's story, so it's utterly jarring to find a server that seems to be pushing me to put on a brown bin bag and a janky polygonal boar helmet and give up on that ridiculous notion.

Most of the cloak models aren't appropriate for EFU, but certainly the standard cloak models + scarf should be available if they aren't already.
Hoods is just a matter of typing a voice command.
Most helm models are available, we do restrict many of the more interesting ones.
As far as I can recall tabards can be added to standard clothing via the tailor.

I can't find anywhere to adjust or buy cloaks, yet - the tailor has no option to adjust them, and only one fancy enchanted one for sale.
The hood command I wasn't aware of, that helps a bit, thanks.
I assume the helmets are available at a smith somewhere, as I can find no way to custom-make a helmet.

Tabards (and skirts/jackets/wraps/robes) are specifically prevented in tailoring even on basic cloth. The tailor (Salarius the VI) declares 'You are wearing a robe which I can't model' when asked to duplicate my existing clothing, and has no option available for adding or adjusting the robe on any clothing.

If it could just be fixed to allow robes on useless, equivalent-to-being-naked cloth armour, I'd be enormously grateful. This is the same service that is offered to all characters in the creation area - and I've honestly come close to making a new character explicity to take advantage of this, then drop-trade my outfit over, but I suspect this'd be frowned upon.

To really drill down, I hope these aren't asking the server to 'adjust its core principle's....

- Can the in-game tailor please add robes to cloth outfits, just like the New Character Area tailor can.
- Could the in-game tailor also maybe sell a few scarves and cloaks.

That's really about the core of my needs. It'd be lovely to see the server adopt a MUCH freer stance on customisation, but I can probably drag myself through with these little details.

With all the love - if it's an issue that's regularly raised by new players, is it possible that it's one of the things that's putting people off, and making it hard for them to enjoy the server on their arrival? Is that it's bought up so often perhaps a suggestion it might have been a bad decision that could due with some reconsideration? After all, for every person who's willing to raise an issue, there's a dozen that sit in quiet resentment, or give up and leave.

With regard to that, would you consider allowing the following at tailors?

- The ability to make a statless, plain cloak, the appearance of which you can modify to create the various half-cloaks, scarves, and so on.
- As above, for hoods and helmets.
- Robes to be added to statless, plain clothes.

Even accepting the desire for players to wear the dev-designed items and to not modify them, the above three points shouldn't disrupt anything, no?

As an anecdote - on many servers, you can walk into the starting tailor, and turn your helmet into an ostentatious lich-king crown with giant sparkling gems on every point. It's a bizarrely high-fantasy appearance that would be inappropriate in almost any setting. I've seen this crown available on many servers. You can make a level 1 PC and stomp out into town looking like Glam Metal Sauron.

And I've never seen anyone using it. Because when people are given total, limitless freedom with their outfits, just as they are with their characters speech and actions, they try and do things that support and enhance the setting, not damage it.

Really not pursuing the 'best looking' clothes. I can make fancy and swanky looking armour using the very limited selection, or I could've just made the fanciest looking clothing to arrive in and worn that. Heck, I did that, because that was my character's backstory. I'm only struggling now that I'm trying to naturally progress from "Wearing a super fancy, fragile dress" to "Looking like I fit the setting".

I'm trying to explicitly make my equipment look cobbled together from trash and what I came here in, a tattered remnant of a life left behind now forced to adapt to this horrible, dangerous new place. As in, I'm trying my best to reinforce the setting you're trying to create. I'm being stifled in doing this by a system put in place to stop me doing the thing it's not stopping me from doing, but stopping me doing the thing it's meant to be forcing me to do.

I'm trying to:

Get a ragged, dirty looking scarf, rather than a billowing, full-length magic cloak.
Get a simple cloth hood to hide my elfiness, rather than an ornate, enchanted, polygonal metal helmet that are so common I find them in charity boxes and trash.
Make a ragged outfit with a skirt out of the remains of my character's arrival clothing. This is entirely impossible, because skirts aren't possible to modify, since they're robes.

I want to look like my toon is desperately struggling to make their way in a despotic, trying environment. This isn't about me wanting to look like a high noble fancy-pants superhero, it's about having access to tools that allow me to fit into the setting you're trying to portray.

I'm being funneled towards just slapping whatever gear I find on for the stats, because everything is equally ugly and uneditable, so why even try?

Sorry for coming across as hostile, if I am. It's just been so disappointing to enjoy the server so much up until now, and find myself running into an attempt to force me to look like a video-gamey mess, rather than sticking to the setting. The idea that "looking like a desperate, ragged mess" is something I need to acquire resources, power, and explore deep into the lower rings to do - As in, things that require me to -not- be a desperate ragged mess - is so backwards as to be comical.

Meme for less hostility:
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As far as I'm aware, there's not many ways to manage helmets under hoods/hats in NWN.

I believe it can be done with certain 'cloak hats', but I've never seen anyone choose to do that on any server where that's been an available possibility, mainly because it looked a bit silly and unrealistic, so people went with stuff that looked good instead.

Once again, there's historical and fantasy comparisons:

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I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, though.  I'm assuming not!

Robes over armour:
(Or "bases" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bases_(fashion) )

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I could go on. Robes on armour is not a bad thing. People actively stretching an available system to remove any armoured appearance is.... I guess a little irritating to some people, but I boggle at the mind that would decide that such minor irritation is worth ruining peoples ability to design their character how they want.

I went on a big adventure last night and one guy actually griped IC that they hated how their armour looked. I've already had to trash an item that gives me much-needed AC because it looked like an ugly square of turd-brown lego with tasteless lumps of metal in it and base NWN 'spiky leather' bits. (itself looking more like Studded Leather than the Cloth it was meant to be).

Just.... Why? How is it making the server better to prohibit a bit of fashion souls?

Hi all, am noob.

Recently gotten to trying EFU, and I've had a really great experience so far. Thanks to all who've been involved with a maimed bride having the normal amount of panic attacks for someone in her situation.

I've recently gotten to the point where it makes sense for her to adjust her outfit to fit her new circumstances, and was kind of shocked to find the tailor system that's actively hostile to my intent every step of the way.

No robe adjustments.
No adding robes to new outfits.
No weapon modification.
No helmet modification.
No cloak modification.
Limited colours.
Limited armour pieces.
No modifying existing item appearance.

This is absolutely alien to me - every other server I've played on has a simple "Here's the open tailor in the starting area, have fun, don't be too exploitative or we'll bonk you." - and that system works. People make outfits how and as they want, and if anyone's use of such is particularly immersion-breaking, then there's always DM intervention for that. But typically, it's just a matter of letting you tell more stories with your appearance.

When I've raised this in the Discord, two arguments have been presented:

1) If robes are unrestricted, then people can make their fullplate look like a fancy coat.
Though I've never personally felt that someone else having their character look how they want is negatively impacting my experience, this seems more like an argument for restricting a specific few robes, on a specific few armour types. Not for gutting the system for everyone.

2) Cool appearances are an expensive prestige reward for questing.
This makes sense on an MMORPG, but less so on a roleplaying world. At the moment, it seems that the suggestion is for my character to become rich and powerful enough to quest to find the location where, for a huge sum of gold, and perhaps an application to a DM, I can successfully make her look like she's barely scraping by. This seems a little absurd. Nothing is stopping me from making an outfit that makes me look 'good' and bringing it in from the starting area. All I'm being restricted from is telling the story of a characters development, partly through their changes in outfit.

I might well just be screaming into a void full of dead horses here, but I really hope the team reconsiders this stance. For me, it's actually such a significant issue as to be a dealbreaker for the server for me, and that's a real shame. I just can't understand the concept that letting your players customise their characters is something you want to restrict as heavily as this.