Docks incentives for new PCs

[Decimate_The_Weak]

"I'll hold your gold, lad... if you give me 25%, yeah?"

It better happen.

[The Boom King]

It's hard to have gang wars if you're more worried about the ten thousand enemies that want to see the docks burn. I mean, you can't expect people not to band together against the dominion and all that.
 
Fact: If there's no chance of war between the docks and the dominion, then there will be lots of gang wars.
 
If this was done, we'd have more appeal added to the docks, because one of the main reasons players would avoid it is because of the fact that living there is essentially painting a target on yourself if you go to the dominon on occasion. And Vice Versa, really. I'm not saying there shouldn't be conflict between the factions, but right now it's too much. This is almost an all-out war. It should be subtle, not all this sending war, "Let's see who can drink potions the fastest" duel challenges.

[Caddies]

You have a large group of people with a similar belief and agenda. They  fight against control and all the things it comes with, including  slavery and other similar issues. You cannot expect these people not to  rally as a whole and fight against the primary enemy while looking  beyond their smaller differences. Your vision of the docks does not  work, just like it never worked when NPC gangs tried to mug people and  it was a cry fest that they should just let it happen. It may be a  chaotic and crazy place, but that doesn't mean the people are all  ignorant and blind to the greater concerns. Trying to push that issue  has always been foolish, from when NPCs were mugging random players and  DMs crying that others interfered to now when they need to be somewhat  unified more than ever due to a lack of power.

Firstly, those NPCs were let loose to reinforce the fact that the Sons of Sabuth weren't the police of the Docks. In leiu of PCs mugging PCs in a district where there are no laws against it, we had to use NPCs; and lo and behold, the Sons and every PC there all banded together to stop these NPCs. This had nothing to do with outside threats, but you still had the Wastrel Table Alliance grouping up to fight together.

Secondly, a lack of power should foment intra-Docks strife more, not less. If you can't see this you have no idea about what the Docks is.

Lastly, there is absolutely no reason why competing gangs and PCs can't band together temporarily if the Docks are threatened. But most of the time, the district should be bathed in intrigue and bloodshed as different PCs and their groups collide over ideas, slights and power.

Last time there was a gang war between PCs in the Docks? Can't remember. As someone said, its a little too 'problematic' for people. Things must be ordered, neat and easy. I'm sure you will defend this with irrelevant references to the Dominion, though.

[DollarPhil]

Also, things are not always as they seem, unless you're in the middle of it you just don't know.

I can't stress that enough. There are a lot of plots and conspiracies I can see even DMs missing if they're not about IG for it, because they don't make even the private forums.

Last time there was a gang war between PCs in the Docks? Can't remember.

I could name one open conflict within a gang, one open conflict between gangs, and 2-3 cloak and dagger plots within or between factions in the last three weeks. If you want to hear the exact details, Caddies, find me on IRC or ask for a PM. It's mostly though that they're small scale and overshadowed by big conflicts like Drayden doing his one man invasion  impression every week, and the Banites.

How about lockable chests that do not use keys but always require a lock picker?

The point of group-accessible lockable chests is not so much to just store spare stuff but to allow trading items among a faction without this sort of time zone issue. The Docks hideout is problematic enough in that if you spawn there and can't pick locks, you're stuck. It got ridiculous on the Laddermen, in that we had to recruit Bailey on occasion to open our own damn HQ  because none of us had high enough Open Lock XD.

Hmm, now you will have to worry about competing gangs and their rogues getting to your stuff. I think this is a reasonable risk and makes for some good RP.

The risk of looting someone else's chest with Open Lock is effectively zero if you can avoid them. Having to mug/DM supervised Pick Pocket a key is actually risky both from getting it and the fact it's then evidence that can be used to find you out.

[Cerberus]

Last time there was a gang war between PCs in the Docks?

I don't see the logic of even trying unless you want to play second fiddle to the Sons and have Sons PC boss you around. Even if you're the leader of the second biggest gang in the Docks the Sons will always be there to push you around. The Sons are a DM run pet faction that would take an act of god and congress to oust, so it's almost a why bother (IMO). But there is always that off chance you can be the next Montezi family and actually get god and congress to oust the Sons, who knows [shrug]...
 
And as far as "Also, things are not always as they seem, unless you're in the middle of it you just don't know." I'd like to say that even DM's shouldn't be saying this. It's a sign that you don't play well with others. This is a game and each and every PC that shows interest should be given the benefit of the doubt and let into the plot so they can have fun too. Except in the rare occation that the PC's just totaly wouldn't do that (say a banite and a Paladin of Tyr hooking up and becoming friends; that sort of thing). Otherwise no matter the outcome, be they (the interested PC) a legitimate ally or a spy it makes the game better for all. Don't give them the cold shoulder and think OOC that you don't trust them. Bring em into the loop and work with it ffs. I've had PC's that were part of the faction and when certain other players and plots poked their noses up my "allies" would say things like "I have to take care of something" and walk away leaving me hanging (explain to me again why we join factions?). This isn't just not fun, it's kinda rude. If you want your plot to grow you have to feed it, not just tread water with it. For good or bad, GET PEOPLE INVOLVED.
 
Being that it doesn't look promising for my app... Perhaps I will make a banker/loan-shark concept... If you see issues someplace work with it and post the changes you've made in the Module Change Request Thread... Maybe something will come of it, maybe not...
 
:???: But what do I know, I just come here to have fun...

[DollarPhil]

This is a game and each and every PC that shows interest should be given the benefit of the doubt and let into the plot so they can have fun too.

Er... what? That's exactly how to make sure every underhand plan ever falls apart.
The entire point of running conspiracies and intra-faction plots is to sneak stuff past other PCs, and sneaky plans don't work with too many people involved. It's also why nobody's trying to prove Caddies wrong by saying exactly what's happening :P.  If you want your PC to be part of a covert plot, you have to earn trust IC by demonstrating reliability and loyalty to PCs or groups. I've never seen any of your recent PCs get really involved in a faction, they've always been mostly on the sidelines. If you suspect your PC is being excluded from something, well, that means it's time to spy on your own buddies!     Even if you don't think you're directly in on a plot it can influence you.

Incidentally, if you were keeping an eye on recent Docks events you'd realise that right now the Laddermen are arguably more prominent than the Sons. The Sons' laissez-faire approach to things means  they're less pushing around than trying to balance things to remain in some vague control.

I started this thread to highlight IG features and facilities that would remove obstacles to getting characters, factions and plots progressing in the Docks. Cerberus, if you want your PCs involved in big stuff from the get-go, you have to run the plot yourself. You can't expect to make an instant trusted lieutenant in a district that's paranoid about Duchy and Conclave infiltrators and has regular double or indeed triple agents :D.

[Cerberus]

Explain to me again why we join factions? Seriously...
 
If you're not going to let others join in on the plot, and it's a big bad secrete that will be dead when your PC dies [shrug], yeah, thats a good plot. Have fun with it. More PC's means the plot has a better chance of working, not failing. If you find a spy, or a PC that's not a spy but has lose lips and blabs something, work with it IG. If he's not a spy and doesn't have lose lips then you have a good ally... I really fail to see how NOT getting others involved is more fun.
 
But whatever...

[Capricious]

You earn trust IC, through roleplay, it's not granted for just being there. Now, back to the discussion at hand?

[Cerberus]

You're right of course... PC's showing interest in something you're doing IG/IC and or members of your faction shouldn't be trusted and should be left out. Sorry, I'll try to remeber that next time...
 
And for the record, I didn't post the, "Also, things are not always as they seem, unless you're in the middle of it you just don't know." and therefore didn't take this thread off topic, I simply replied to it.