Replace Slay Living on Druids with Drown

[cmenden]

I've always thought it a bit odd that druids, who are super anti-necromancy get slay living, but I think it'd be a pretty jarring balance change to rip a death spell from them leaving them with nothing

Enter "Drown" a flavorful spell already on their list with similar mechanics, not quite death but close enough (Fort save vs Lose Most of your HP) and it'd be a pretty solid replacement I think for, just making it a L5 spell instead of L6 where it currently resides

[Mia]

Drown is a little strong for a level 5 spell.
It is definitely a lot stronger than Slay Living, because it is its superior in range, and cannot be blocked by having a high dodge ac, concealment, shadowshield or death ward.

Probably better to remove Slay Living than give Druids Drown at 5.

[merrychase]

Yeah its a powerful necromancy spell that does potentially facilitate some cheese, so removing it strikes me as rationale

and I agree with what I think is the implied premise here: as a powerful necromancy spell, its appropriate to attach to its use some evil necromancer stigma, which therefore makes it inappropriate for essentially all druids as they're usually imagined (and probably alot of clerics too!).

As an offset other than drown, could give baleful polymorph a minor tweak upwards. (e.g. require touch attack, but remove the DC malus? maybe add in some features for different spell foci?)

[Diabl0658]

Necromancy as a school isn't the same as animating undead

Death is part of the circle of life, so it makes sense druids would have access to a few necromancy spells.

[VanillaPudding]

I think the elephant in the room is being able to slay living from stealth, likely with a good or VERY HIGH  DC depending, and simply stealth away again. Then again it has happens like once a year.

[Empress of Neon]

I'm going to disagree on this one. Druids, prior to the setting change, had -plenty- of members who were dedicated to that -other- aspect of the Balance... namely death! And as Diablo stated, necromancy itself isn't tabboo; quite the contrary! One of the most POWERFUL anti-undead spells (destroy undead) does in fact come from this school! And it's not like lvl 9 is particularly easy to achieve.

I'd say if someone's playing a character dedicated to that facet of necromancy (death), go for it.

[cmenden]

Baleful polymorph is an interesting idea but was already hit with the -4 DC probably for the reason VP is talking about I think (a high stealth class having easy access to save or die/lose spells)

The death argument has been made before, but I honestly always disagree with it. In PnP you have like blighter druids and other druid concepts related to disease/fungus/pestilence but EFU has always been pretty clear on the whole "Druids hate necromancy" thing. It's not really about the school per se so much as the fact that Slay Living is straight up Evil Necromancy in flavor/animation/what it does

If druids can command/control death because it's part of the natural cycle, then we'd probably see more people walking around with armies of skeletons shouting "I MADE THESE TO HELP NATURE"

I guess it does come down to a question of whether druids even SHOULD have an instant death spell or not, when they already get a lot of other cool tricks