solo quests, outside the Zig

[Cerberus]

I think there should be a couple lower level solo quests placed outside the zig for those wilder concepts that may be a bit socialphobic.
 
FYI; Perma'd Vifur due to numerous deaths of a druid by failing stealth or AE because... Well, she never could get past 4th level without failing one or the other and ending up getting killed. Quite frankly as much as I liked her personality and fun I had RPing with her, she was nearly impossible to play due to her NOT being willing to go into the zig. Perhaps the bees quest could be made solo (solo druid would rock that quest). Or maybe actually earn a few XP for healing that silly mule. Or how about putting the pile of wood guy (forget his name) over by Johan's Mill or something...
 
I can have a PC to 5th level in a few hours solo in the zig running all the available solo quests. There isn't a one that I know of outside the zig, yet close enough NOT to get killed trying to get to it.

[Cruzel]

I know when I suggested something similar back in the underdark, the response was something like "We don't want to make it easier for loners to level up without interacting with others, this is a group server and we want to encourage player interaction".

However I am in total agreement with the OP. The main reason I quit my stargazer is because people were only leaving the ziggurat to do vrazdn or other quests, and I was unable to go into the ziggurat in order to get people to hang out with. Overall as a whole never going into the ziggurat without dire need makes sense for a lot of people and concepts, but is generally boring and unfun because frankly there is nothing for them to do at low levels and few people to interact with when everyone is just standing on the ziggurat staring at the gates.

Druids and other nature-ish PCs shouldn't be forced to have to enter the ziggurat in order to have fun. It just takes away some of the freshness and challenge of their concept. Sure, some PCs can get lucky and some players can get an OOC posse going and create their characters together beforehand so they always have allies.  Having allies is definately important for a nature PC, but they should be able to survive and thrive alone at lower levels without relying on DM support.

As it is now, low level PCs who shun the ziggurat are just going to die a lot and keep having to bug a DM to help clear their body, wasting the DM's time and their own. The only other option really, is to park your ass outside the gates (Which used to be quite common for low level druids) and tag along with questing groups. Again, we touch the point of incredible boredom.

Some new druid/ranger only solo quests couldn't hurt IMO.

Edit : Also, as the OP states - With a PC in the ziggurat you can get to level 4 with pretty much a single run of the solo quests, and with one or two of the group quests you're already level 5.   For a nature PC achieving the same result without entering the zig requires them to tag along on the higher end quests, or spamming the lower end ones that are available to them every reset which can take them over a week to earn level 5.

Not every player is super proactive and going to find a wicked niche and a nice group to roll with right away, and I think  that helping these players out when they want to try something different and more challenging should definately be done so that they can at least get started on their own.

[Underbard]

I have to agree with this post.  My latest PC HATES being in the Zig, but is there by default.  A couple of small quests outside the zig so nature types aren't forced to conform for a week or more before they go wild again would be nice.

[sylvyrdragon]

This is one of the reason I haven't created a "Nature type".  The fact that I would have to spend at least the first 2 levels in the zig sort of takes away from the concept I've had floating in my head for sometime now.

I hope the DM's will see the logic in this.  I don't really see the reason this would even have to be limited by class.  Why shouldn't even those comfortable with in the colony do them?  Limit them by level, say 2-4 only able to be done 3 times (much like some of those in the Colony now.)

[Gwydion]

As a stargazer player, I concur.  It's brutal playing a nature type if you aren't in a pre-arranged  PC party that is planned and started up together.

I'd also like to see the NPC merchant in the Starwood village sell SOMETHING there that draws PCs in to encourage RP.  Herbs for 6 gold.  Barkskins for 60.  Something.

It would be cool for NPC merchants that are a little tougher to reach to have a particular item or thing for sale at a good rate.

Law of Supply and Demand dictates that salesman that are off the beaten path are cheaper.  Those easily accessible usually have much higher rates.

Case in point - gas prices in cities and on Interstate highways.

[athousandyearsofpain]

I have to disagree that its hard for a nature PC to survive on his own. But as with ANYONE ELSE who wants to go alone in the wilds, you are foolish to think that you don't need stealth. If you have stealth you'll be fine, at least I have been since I created my stargazer. Aaaaand, it doesn't take a week to get to level 5.

[Cruzel]

I am of the opinion that you shouldn't -need- stealth to get around most of the more common places, given how commonly travelled they are and how often adventurers and ('npc hunters?') seem to patrol them.

It is almost impossible to play a non-stealthing stargazer or other nature-ish PC at lower levels who are able to actually leave the starwood and travel around the more common places without dying horribly, and that gets incredibly boring. This should not be how things are in my opinoin, and has probably been the reason we don't see many nonstealthing wilderness PCs, which is really a shame because I'd love to see more wilderness-y barbarian/fighters and maybe even clerics.

As it is now, these concepts only seem to crop up when people have OOCly agreed to make similar characters, and this isn't cool because it leads to the same general people playing with the same people, causeing a sort of clique mentality and eventually spurning jealousy from other players when this 'clique' seems like they get more DM attention than some other player, who then causes a big deal over it. I think mixing it up is important and playing with people you don't normally play with is a good way to avoid burnout/boredom. But I digress!

I am definately for anything that makes it easier for people to make more diverse nature concepts that don't necessarily need OOC groupings beforehand to be successful and survive longer than a week. Adding  quests for these kinds of PCs outside of the ziggurat would definately be a good start. Maybe looking at some of the spawns in some of these areas would be a good thing as well. (sloped road, lake of steam, outer wall forest, etc.)

[Pup]

"deleted*  Nevermind.  XD

[Cerberus]

Vifur had plenty of people she called "friend" and could quest with them if she found them (She was liked :) ). Problem with that was she didn't always get to them or they were already out and about and I'm sorry but I don't usually do tells to people that arnt at least on the same map as me (I consider it meta unless it's nothing about IG/IC stuff). Anyway, her last death she was 4th level, her hide was 23 (spell buffed) and her MS was 13. Just so happened a friggen cave bear spotted a hawk she befriended (she loved hawks), hawk and bear fought, bear got pissy, Vifur's 16 AE failed misserably and she died for the sixth time, (back down to 3rd). Sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to go through the hiding in the dwarf cave and standing in front of the Zig waiting game thing yet again. So yeah, even as fun as she was and as much as I enjoyed her I just couldn't do it again. Had there been a way to retrieve at least a few of those lost XP maybe I would have toughed it out a bit longer.

[BrittanyPanthas]

You're regularly going to die if you stealth around the Isle expecting stealth to make you invisible unless your stealth is in the high 20's/low 30's in both Hide and MS.  And even then its not reliable.  A move silently of 13 means that someone standing still with even 0 ranks in listen has an over 50% chance of hearing you per check at a certain distance.

A moderate investment in Hide and MS can save your life on quests certainly to keep you from being targetted first in a group, or to do some light scouting, but if you want to be invisible, you need to make a serious investment in gear, and feats.  It becomes easier with druids once you have access to wild shape.

As a low level druid though, prior to getting your wild shape, you need to have friends if you expect an easy time.  As someone put it best the other day, 'In most parts of the world, the boar is feared as one of the most dangerous of animals.  On Ymph, its the least of our concerns.'  Loner concepts in the wild are difficult to start out here, but not impossible, so you shouldn't be disparaged if you have a few hiccups.

[derfo]

While I could definitely see why others would consider surviving in the wilds 'brutal,' it's certainly doable, granted you might have to fine tune yourself to stealth or invisibility constantly, knowing what to avoid and the like.

It's a shame that most of the people that wander the wilds won't find each other given that they'll constantly be hidden, but I'm not privy to any immediate solution to that which would even be implemented, so oh well.

I think it'd be pretty cool to have some beginner quests amongst the exiled camp and more easily accessible and desirable goods to make it more of a hub for those that find the nature stuff more desirable, despite that it might split players between the zig and the camp, and that there are a few things in place at the camp already to attract.

[athousandyearsofpain]

Stealth and living in the wilds goes hand in hand imo.
There are areas that don't spawn that much dangerous things that you can stay in if you feel like it.
Saying that there shouldn't be so much spawns due to "npc hunters" and travellers feels just like a way to get rid of the spawns that can be annoying sometimes. But fact is still, if you are living in the wilderness you ARE living in the wilderness. There are animals that would want to eat you for breakfast, lunch and dinner.. Which is why I don't at all think it is weird that you should need stealth to survive in the wilds unless you are incredibly strong.

But the subject was more quests.
I can honestly say that more solo-quests in the wilderness would make it far too easy to level up out there. And it still wouldn't balance anything up if you compare to those that start in the Ziggurat. It would just mean that those people get even more solo-quests to do if they want to go outside the city when they are done inside.

[sylvyrdragon]

Hmmmm, think this got slightly off topic.  I didn't read anywhere about "non stealth"... this was about Low level newbie quests outside the Zig, giving those concepts a way to gain levels the same way the players in the Colony do.

I think most of us know you need to be STEALTHY to survive the wilds, and no one was debating this.  At least I don't think so.  Also this was not a "How to survive the wilds" demo..

What do you think about adding a few Newbie quests to the Wilds? That is what was to be discussed here.

((OK, sorry.. but this happen way to often.  Ask about one thing and end up with a thread of "You need X,Y,Z and it's a piece of cake".))

[athousandyearsofpain]

But the subject was more quests.
I can honestly say that more solo-quests in the wilderness would make it far too easy to level up out there. And it still wouldn't balance anything up if you compare to those that start in the Ziggurat. It would just mean that those people get even more solo-quests to do if they want to go outside the city when they are done inside.

Aka... Double exp outside for people who travel the wilds = the same bonus for those who live in the ziggurat because nothing is stopping them from do the quests in the wilds too.

[Cruzel]

The fact that they've already passed the limit due to all of the solo quests inside the zig would probably stop them.