Magister's Guild revamp - looking for opinions.

[Professor Death]

I'm starting to like this idea of a revamp.  Although my wizard is and has been around since the early days of the Archipelago, he:

1. was never asked IC by anyone to join or discuss benefits of membership
2. From reading the public postings and seeing the "direction" of the guild and its relation to the government, IC he wasn't interested enough to seek out membership - seemed too restrictive and potentially, well, OOCly spellguardlike!
3. There was no NEED to join the guild.  He found enough work and adventure on his own and ICly liked that freedom to do what he wanted when he wanted.

With that said, here are some thoughts to add to the pot:
1. There IS a need for a wizard-heavy faction, despite what Aldric sees as lack of DM interest.  Just make it a PC faction.
2. Given that my wiz was turned off by the governmental relationship, maybe downplay that aspect.  Why would the wizards CARE to associate with the government?  If the guild were truly inclusive of all wizards, then the government should be begging for the wizards' help.  And besides.... Isn't wizarding more important than governance?  The guild should be a force the government should be courting to keep it neutral to friendly, but not try to control it.
3. Membership should be near-forced as it was in the days of old true trade guilds.  You could not practice without guild approval or you were, um, "shut down".  Now, a good aligned mage would of course have issue with this, but there are ways to shut down noncompliant mages without killing them - feeblemind, curse, etc.  They also might choose to play up the positive benefits of membership as well, rather than rely on the heavy handed approach.
4. Having mage-oriented fighters and clerics associated with the guild is a great idea - either as retainers or as devotees of Azuth or Mystra.
5. The guild probably WOULD be somewhat secretive in its workings - through knowledge is power, and power is something wizards need access to to survive given their physical weakness.  
6. A united guild would give wizards some real clout.  Cheat a wizard?  You are now blacklisted and will NEVER receive wizardly help.  Want a wizard to accompany your adventure group?  Standard rates are a full split of loot plus an additional charge for "buffing".  Part of that suggestion is pure business and part is the feeling that wizards get screwed on a lot of quests.  "Great, thanks for buffing and collecting, now we're taking all the good loot because we did all the upfront fighting".  Seriously - many a quest has seen this exact attitude where the figheter types just start splitting things totally on their own without any consultation!

Thoughts?

[Aldrick Tanith]

I've come up with some potential character archetypes that could form the "core" foundations of the guild.  

I whacked my brain trying to figure out how to make a wizard central guild:

A)  Not look like a cheap Spellguard clone.
B)  Not look like a rehash of the Society.

I hope these archetypes, which are just broad templates, help make it clear that it is something -different-.  I'd like feedback and opinions on them.  It is not my intention to limit people to what is listed, but rather try and provide a guideline for flavor and ideas.

[SIZE="4"]The Magister's[/SIZE]


"In the end who can really protect the people here?  They are defenseless against the things that lay hidden upon this island.  Do you fear the Nightrisers?  Good, they are nothing compared to what lays deeper within these ruins.  In the end only we can protect you.  It is our duty to learn what others must not, so that we may defend against what others cannot.  Netheril was a powerful empire ruled by wizards, and it will take a wizard to correct the legacy of their folly."

Requirements:  Wizard, Non-Chaotic
Most Likely Deities:  Helm, Azuth or Mystra

The Magister's function as the leaders of the guild, and self-appointed guardians of the colony.  They seek to uncover secret and hidden knowledge.  They say they do this to protect the colony against hidden dangers, dangers that they are reluctant to talk about.  Others say they do this for their own selfish ends, motivated by a desire to build a New Netheril Empire upon the islands.  What is clear, however, is that they seek to attract as many as they can to their cause... whatever cause that might be.

A Magister is a wizard bound by an oath to protect the Colony.  They work openly to study the ruins, uncover lost artifacts and obtain new knowledge.  They rarely share their findings, preferring to keep such knowledge to themselves, or use that knowledge as leverage.  Those who seek knowledge from the guild often are required to give something in exchange, typically an oath of loyalty to their cause.

Magister's Oaths:  "I vow that I shall serve the Magister's Guild to the best of my abilities.  

I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.

I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.  

I vow to learn from the mistakes of Netheril and not repeat them.  

I vow never to use my magic against a citizen of the colony, except against those who threaten it, in the defense of my life, or the life of another member of the guild or colony.

I vow to speak only what I believe to be true.

I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."



[SIZE="4"]The Warden's[/SIZE]

""Valor is the lifeblood of all Warden's, the force that drives us to deeds of honor and glory.  It is the steel in our spines that allows us to face horrors that were born of nightmares made real.  Above all things, a warden must be brave, matching his courage not only against his foes but against the task that faces all wardens:  defending the Magister's from all harm.""

Requirements:  Non-Chaotic, fighter or ranger.
Compatible PrC's:  Knight or Weapon Master
Most Likely Deities:  Helm, Azuth or Mystra

The Wardens are a group of honorable warriors dedicated to the defense of the colony and the Magister's Guild.  They have pledged their loyalty to the Magister's and work to defend them with their lives.  While most follow Azuth or Mystra there is no religious requirement to join.  Some Helmites, swayed by the Guild's open declaration to defend the colony have also been persuaded into joining.

A Warden lives by a code of conduct, outlined below in the oaths, and is charged with defending the Magister's no matter the cost.  Many Wardens seek to become Knights, while others seek to enhance their combat abilities and work to become Weapon Master's.  Others just seek a chance to prove themselves as skilled warriors.  What ever their reasons, their purpose is clear:  no Magister must die on their watch.

Warden's Oaths:  "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.

I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.

I vow to defend the Magister's no matter the cost or the price to myself.

I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.

I vow to speak only what I believe to be true.

I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild.

I vow to act with courage and valor.

I vow to avoid causing harm to the colony.

I vow to keep my word to the best of my ability in all dealings."



[SIZE="4"]The Fury[/SIZE]

"A violent fire of change and motion, a fury, burns within the blood of many, frozen into stillness as water freezes into ice.  If unleashed haphazardly, the fury is wasted and its vessel is broken.  But if one is clever, careful, and focused of will, the fury's energy can be harnessed and used to transform the things of the world, just as fire hardens a clay vessel or lightning fuses sand into glass.  The Magister's have taught us how to tap into this inner fury, and now we wield it for them."

Requirements:  Sorcerer
Most Likely Deities:  Any

Sorcerer's are a dangerous group of individuals as many are unable to control their powers.  Most wizards view them as little more than savages, yet the Magister's Guild has taken a keen interest in them.  Under the mantra of protecting the colony, the guild has begun to recruit Sorcerer's with active talent.  They study them and work to help them harness and control their power.  There have even been rumors of the Magister's "awakening" latent sorcerous talents in others.

These Sorcerers that serve the Magister's call themselves Furies.  Many seem to develop transmutation or destructive powers.  Whether this is a result of the Magister's doing or simply an oddity, few can say.

Fury's Oaths:  "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.

I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.

I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."



[SIZE="4"]Magister's Fist[/SIZE]

"Let them attack us with their magic and their blades.  We are like the rock which stretches into the vast sea and which, exposed to the fury of the winds and beaten against the waves, endures all violence.  Yet, we shall not merely endure; we shall prevail for we are both strong of body, mind and spirit."

Requirements:  Lawful, Monk
Most Likely Deities:  Helm, Azuth or Mystra

Much like the Wardens the Magister's Fists are dedicated to protecting the Magister's although that is not their primary task.  They are specially trained to withstand arcane magic and to do battle against wizards.  They are few in number with most worshiping Azuth.  Their mission is to prepare to do battle against the arcane creations of the island, and if necessary their creators as well.  Some whisper that these monks also silently and carefully remove rogue wizards that do not pledge loyalty to the Magister's Guild, and who cause problems for them.

Magister's Fist:  "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.

I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.

I vow to defend the Magister's no matter the cost or the price to myself.

I vow to defend the civilized people of this colony.

I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."



[SIZE="4"]The Archeologist's[/SIZE]

"Alright, now listen.  At the end of this tunnel there are two trails leading out and to the east.  The leftmost looks easiest, but it isn't:  it is trapped to the nine hells and back.  We have to go the other way instead.  Beyond that there is a guardian of some kind, and a bridge that has been destroyed.  Don't worry, I found a way off to the north, the tunnels look bad but it should be safe enough for us.  Just opposite the bridge is where we need to be.  The artifact cannot be far from there... I can feel it."

Requirements:  Any
Compatible PrC's:   Archaeologist
Most Likely Deities:  Any

Dungeon delvers, artifact hunters, scholars, adventurers, scouts and all other types of individuals pledge loyalty to the Magister's Guild for an endless number of reasons.  Most, however, do so for the ability to explore the ruins with a trusted and experienced group of individuals.  Many wander into the ruins on their own seeking their fortune never to return.  Some claim that unknown horrors created by the ancient Netherese grab them.  Others whisper that the Magister's Guild kills them for attempting to steal their secrets.

There are some specialist individuals who pledge loyalty to the guild and become professional artifact hunters.  They rely upon the expertise of the Magister's Guild to make sense of what they find.

Archeologist's Oaths:  "I vow to serve the Magister's to the best of my ability.

I vow to protect the secrets and knowledge of the guild.

I vow to conduct myself with dignity as a representative of the Magister's Guild."

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Epic, simply epic.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

You might want to extend a loose example to the Druids.

Like:

The guardians of the Ziggurat know that they cannot see the entire Isle, and know all its secrets. thus Enters Forest Wanderer, these are people who hold no alleigance to the Guild or Colony, but see the advantages of holding an agreement with the Guild, we provide them with information, in return, they leave us alone.


Or something similar to that.

[Aldrick Tanith]

Professor Death-

I like most of your ideas, and am going to try and include them.  Especially 3, 4, 5 and 6.

[Daemonic Daz]

I'm very impressed, DM faction plz

[MisterPAIN]

Epic, simply epic.

You just liked the pictures IMO.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

You just liked the pictures IMO.

Guilty, yes, yes I did.

[MisterPAIN]

There might also be IC reasons why the guild is failing:

Leader is -uncharismatic- in tongue and is a hardcore coward.
Intellectual population doesn't like them.
Savage population doesn't like them.
A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
Friends of A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
No government influence anymore.
Lack of incentives, social or otherwise.
Trying to become a DM faction when being a PC faction with not much anything done to merit it other than having a bunch of PC wizards.
Previous goals being "Being the wizard branch of government and doing the same thing as a DM faction at the same time except not."

[Listen in Silence]

That's an awesome faction idea!

I wholeheartedly support it, if it could be made into a DM faction that'd be even better!

[Sandstorm]

I sort of have to agree with Mr. Pain! You can have complex ideas that look cool, but ultimately I am unsure how successful it will be. How many people do you think would be in each segment, really? You'd need 10 people just to have 2 of each, and no PC or DM faction even has 10 people in it. I am also not fond of ideas on requirements in class or deity for PC factions (except for obvious exceptions!) It may be better to just like, have a single group.

[core]

Yes, it looks like there are more sections than there are PCs >_> That is probably a problem! I'd say have it a tad more loosely structured.

[Professor Death]

Ouch.  Not even in the faction and I feel that sting.  Speaking as a born-again wizard player who is really liking what he sees in Aldrick's attempt here (for the most part), let me throw in where I have no business:

1. The power of a wizard faction is not necessarily in the charisma of its leader.  Honestly, my wizard never met Aldrick IG, I just heard the bile spilt across the forums.  BUT, a guild is not ABOUT charisma, it's about purpose.  The failed factions have often failed because they were based on the leadership of a single PLAYER.  I say player here because there are often many characters who IC are perfect for leadership but whose players don't have the time to devote IG to it.  Any faction centered around some core ideals or "rules" would have a much better time surviving the untimely death of a leader type.  I think that's a secret to the success of DM factions - the constance of the DM presence gives them that quality that allows them to endure the death of a leader.  PC factions will be doomed to short life if they continue to rely on a single player's character.  Side note: any examples of someone whose main faction leader PC died and then they made a different character and rejoined the faction to rise to its leadership to keep it going?
2. As to being a coward, I'm not sure what went down there either - challenges to duels maybe?  I wouldn't accept one either as a wizard most likely.  You're too easy to "take out".  No, the power of the guild is in NOT stooping to such levels, it's about bringing the full fury of the membership down on those who would oppose it (speak softly but carry a big stick - as a group).  
3. Cannot comment on the "intellectuals and society dislikes" Not enough info to even conjecture.
4. See my above post for more on government.  To hell with government influence and politics.  If the guild gets established, the influence will be there because the mages will act as a block.  Hell hath no fury like half a dozen mages fireballing you at once while their earth elementals run interference for them and a few walls of fire separate you from them too!
5. As to lack of incentives, here are a few:
Networking of spells and scrolls to flesh out spellbooks, sharing of magic items among those who need them (oh, you're a newbie member?  Here, take these 10 wands of sleep and acid splash - I've got no use for them anymore!), loaning of "uberitems" to those in need, price and inventory controls on potions and wands, sharing of information for things like alchemy and herbalism, mutual defense, cool RP opportunities, wiz vs. wiz PvP against rogue types (for those that like thta sort of thing), political power as a member of "the" wizard group, increased wealth (if my idea on charging an extra "fee" to quest and buff is taken into account, getting to learn and explore cool secrets of the isle, etc.  Sounds like quite a bit off the top of my head!  

It sounds like the original magister guild is for all intents, dead, though.  A serious revamp is in order and Aldrick has put a lot into it.  Give him some credit for trying to do something cool and different.  He's said himself he doesn't want to make it look like sunshine spellguard.  New things sometimes take some tweaking to get right, like a character build :)

There might also be IC reasons why the guild is failing:

Leader is -uncharismatic- in tongue and is a hardcore coward.
Intellectual population doesn't like them.
Savage population doesn't like them.
A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
Friends of A. Society Members have reason to not like them.
No government influence anymore.
Lack of incentives, social or otherwise.
Trying to become a DM faction when being a PC faction with not much anything done to merit it other than having a bunch of PC wizards.
Previous goals being "Being the wizard branch of government and doing the same thing as a DM faction at the same time except not."

[Aldrick Tanith]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

They weren't designed to be sections per-say.  More like archetypes of certain types of characters that could fit into the guild.  To generate ideas.

It was me kinda brainstorming.  I am trying to create something that doesn't feel like Spellguard v2 and doesn't feel like Society reborn.  Something that is built around a unifying theme.

I threw the above out there to stimulate the collective minds of folks here.  So people get an idea of what it -could- look like, not what it -will- look like.  (Although, admittedly, if it could look like that I think it would be awesome.  But as a PC faction we just won't have enough people.)

[Aldrick Tanith]

Here is most likely how it would work, in practice.

You have the obvious core of the guild, the Magister's.  Magister's begin recruitment.  We then begin working out where your PC best fits.  It might be in the groups above, or it might be something completely different!  

They were meant to be examples, idea creators.  I know people look at the Magister's Guild and the first thing they think is Spellguard, and then probably the Society.  The above are ideas that break the mold of what has been done before.

Divine Champion of Azuth?  Cleric of Azuth / Mystra who wishes to see the Magister's Guild take over the island?  Merchant of Waukeen interested in helping see the Magister's guild succeed in the stability they seek to provide, as a stable society can begin to conduct trade.  An assassin / bounty hunter dedicated to hunting down rogue wizards and intimidating them into joining the guild, etc.

Really, the possibilities are huge.  I am just trying to expand the collective mindset.  >_>