Turn Undead Suggestions Thread

[Tala]

A sticky thread for the new Turn Undead system. This will be easier for us to have a single place for the suggestions rather than threads being popped and bumped.

Guidelines:
- Don't discuss or comment on other people's suggestions.

[Hound]

(copy paste from my own thread)



Having been playing with this Domain for a time now, I'm reasonably confident in saying that I think it is in need of adjustment. In contrast to other domains (such as Earth, Magic, Knowledge and Air) Good falls rather flat on its face in comparison, whilst offering less desirable spell perks than its counterpart in Earth (both of which provide Stoneskin).

Feature 1 seems to be reasonably well-balanced. It offered a solid, not excessive bonus to nearby allies, and is reliably useful in any given combat scenario. It doesn't need changes in my opinion.

Feature 2 is underpowered. In comparison to previous Turn Undead iterations, and the damage potential of abilities such as Earth domain, this power is rather weak. The damage dealt is negligible to the point of being irrelevant; typically simply attacking is likely to output more damage in a meaningful way overall. The fear save also does not appear to work correctly, and I have seen undead enemies fail their save and not become feared (possibly due to mind-affecting immunity?). I would recommend increasing the damage dice to a d6 or d8 to provide it a more meaningful punch and enable the class fantasy of a traditional Good-aligned Cleric presenting their holy artefact to banish the darkness.

Feature 3 is also weak, and in need of some adjustment. I believe the calculation for this ability is not accurate, as I often find it providing Aid to Chaotic Evil enemies rather than Lawful Good allies (observer bias possibly?). Even so, this feels erroneous and actually prohibits my desire to use this ability, even when in combat against blatantly evil enemies such as undead (the fact that undead can be buffed by this ability is almost certainly an oversight). I recommend this feature be tweaked to not roll for enemies, and instead only apply to blue units in the vicinity. As it currently stands, this feature is actively not desired as a Turn Undead outcome because of the danger it can present in assisting enemies.

The net result of this is I usually just do not use my Turn Undead at all, as it has a 66% chance of not being useful to me in most given situations.

[Moonlighter]

It may also be helpful to spit out which of the abilities it's using into your combat log.

[Bearic]

I know chaos domain is covered, but maybe add chaos shield to one of the possible turns? I just think it would be really interesting!

[TsunamiWombat]

In general

Add a message that lets you know what turn effect you just got?

Elf

Eyes of the forest isn't as bad as I thought originally as I re-read it and realized it's duration was in turns, not rounds. Still, could use something like a low light vision or + to search effect?

Knowledge and Magic

Seem a bit weaker than the others but I assume that's intentional because these two domains give a truckload of bonus spells

Destruction

Bombardier looks like hilarious fun, but could it be modified to not hurt the caster somehow? Damaging allies is fine.

[Frank]

I've been using the Good cleric domain for a while and the Turn Undead is definitely a bit wonky. While the first two abilities aren't bad, the Call to the Righteous is the one I'd suggest modifying, at the very least.

Call to the Righteous: Nearby allies and enemies in a colossal radius have a chance to receive the effects of the spell Aid cast upon for 5 + 3*CHA rounds according to the following table [snipped]:

Having it buffing evil undead or even just neutral enemies can be very demoralizing. It's a risk to use in a lot of situations, which feels awful when you're attempting to channel pure goodness to aid others. My suggestion would be that the Call to the Righteous be turned into a debuff to Evil hostiles instead. Something as simple as a -1 to attack would feel much more "Good" than accidentally bolstering enemies against your friends. Maybe it could be a blinding holy light that makes it harder for evil enemies to attack accurately.

I don't know if it'd be strong compared to other perks' Turn Undead powers, but I'm more concerned with it fitting the them of the domain.

[Scumlord Spiffy]

Call Boulder: A boulder emerges from the ground in front of the user. This boulder can be lifted and thrown like typical thrown boulders. For 3 + 1*CHA rounds, the user automatically succeeds checks to lift and throw boulders.

Can this be changed to a much less flashier vfx? It kinda looks like you're bringing down the ceiling when a boulder emerges from the -ground- beneath you, after all.

[Dredi]

Good: Aid function.

Despite the good domain having no influence on law/chaos it is objectively worse to be a CG player with this domain than LG.

This makes little sense.

Suggestion set chances based on the good/evil axis only

This would use the %'s for NG, TN and NE

[Scumlord Spiffy]

Can the VFX for LAW and similar domains apply to everyone in the vicinity? Otherwise it functions like a 'detect lawful,' or 'detect chaos.' It needn't give them actual BUFFS but this way no one can abuse the function to try and determine your PCs alignment.

[Crow]

Hey there! I've been playing around with the evil domain for around two months now and I'd like to offer some thoughts on the domain powers that are granted from it. In short, I don't really use them at all, but they're cool and I want to.

Empower Evil: Nearby allies and enemies in a colossal radius with an evil alignment receive +1 non-magical AB, +1 divine damage, +1 dodge AC, and +1 universal saves for 5 + 3*CHA rounds. 

This is definitely the big one.  In the right party setup this is a really strong buff, even with the relatively low duration. Having said that, there's one key issue that sort of separates from the other domain powers with a similar effect, and I think it's something that makes using it consistently a lot more problematic in comparison to the others of its type. The effect applies to both allies and enemies. In the case of the Good or racial type turn undead effects, it's pretty unlikely that you'll run into the specific type on the part of enemies spawned unless it's a specific event or some rare quests. In the case of an Evil alignment, it's a very significant amount of the enemy NPCs on the server, to the point where rolling the ability can buff an entire room of enemies fairly consistently. It may not seem like much, but those bonuses do add up.

My suggestion for this one would be to remove the enemy-affecting aspect of it, but I realize that would make it unique among the rest of the effects like it. My hope is that how populous evil alignments truly are both among PCs and NPCs is enough justification for that part. Otherwise, I just can't comfortably use it with the other bad effect in mind.

Rend the Righteous: Nearby allies in a colossal radius receive +1d4 negative energy damage VS good.

In spite of the niche usage, this is the one domain power I actually have no issue with. The effect is very strong in the right situations and lasts a very long time for what you have to spend for it. I just wish I could stop rolling it so frequently every other time I'm not about to fight something good-aligned.

Drain Life: Does 1dCHA negative energy damage to nearby living allies and enemies in a huge radius. Heals the user equal to the total damage done up to a maximum of DLevel*CHA.

The friendly fire effect is the real kicker for this one. The damage isn't necessarily consistent enough to be actively threatening unless you're a con-starved caster but that's just another issue added on top of an ability loaded with them. At best, the niche usage of this ability would be pretty strong if you could roll it at the exact right time, but the randomness of the turn undead effects means that you can't really even guarantee that much in the very few cases where you might actually be able to aim the massive radius and full heal off of a mass of hostile targets without tagging your friends in the process. My suggestion would be to remove the ally targeting effect of it, maybe at the cost of its current radius. As is, it's mostly just annoying unless you happen to be playing with undead exclusively.

[LoveLess]

A few things I have been thinking about:

The ability to 1/day choose your next, or the first, turn undead variation from the pool would be fantastic. Or similarly some other way to lean into it heavier. While I understand that you want things to be random, the ability to RP one of your turns or use it reliably in a single bad situation would be amazingly nice. Perhaps choosing the next turn once per reset if the changes mentioned above still leave concerns.

An influx of some new Primary domains would be welcome as well. There are two that I can think of which could use the little push and have a lot of relevance in the current setting. There are others, but these are the ones that I think would make great additions.

Portal into a sort of planar Primary Domain and the following turn undead:

• Disruption Ward: Shield nearby allies from attracting unwanted attention in a seam for CHA turns.
  
• Planar Surge: Nearby allies in a colossal radius who are in a planar realm receive +1 non-magical AB, +1 divine damage, +1 dodge AC, and +1 universal saves for 3 + CHA rounds. Those affected rapidly gain Planar Sickness.
• Finding Respite: Temporarily remove the effects of Planar Sickness for 1*CHA rounds.

Nobility made into a Primary Domain and the following turn undead:

• Restore Honor: Nearby humans in a colossal radius have their honor restored, receiving +1 non-magical AB and Immunity: Web for 5 + 3*CHA rounds.
  
• Pay Tribute: Nearby creatures in a huge radius make a Will save against DC 10 + 2*CHA. The user has 1dCHA gp removed from all creatures who fail and receives a maximum of DLevel*CHA from the amount taken.
• Noble Decree: Nearby humans in a colossal radius receive +1*DLevel Persuade for 3 + 1*CHA turns.

[Damien]

Please make these a free action or something? They are largely irrelevant save for a couple turn undeads anyway.

[LaughingAlong]

TLDR; It would be cool if primary domains didn't override secondary domain on summon themes even if secondary domain is chosen first in creation/selection, wouldn't be bad either I feel if more primary domains were added too. Read on for specifics for that at the bottom


A few suggestions and some feedback having been playing a cleric myself as well, for a few various deities, it can be a bit hard to find a primary domain that.. fits necessarily, that isn't going to A: Jack up the summon theme you want for secondary if any,  as summon theme from primary overrides secondary, even if you chose secondary first.

And just changing that alone would be pretty nice, so you get the summon theme you intend for, rather than remaking and choosing an alternate domain that won't do so even if it fits less. Example: I am playing a cleric of pitter peter currently, after a few trial runs, I really learned a lot i'd say @_@ BUT! I settled on Knowledge/Ooze instead of Earth/Ooze as I'd have preferred, not only for the drastic difference in turn capability and power, but also because knowledge doesn't override the ooze theme like earth does, and while finding tomes is always an option, I've yet to come across a single tome on any pc that isn't a few select themes, they exist, but sometimes, you don't want to have to wait to find an item to hold more true to your concept. And bothering DM's for a summon theme change feels very disruptive to me.

Knowledge is the only primary pitter peter domain additionally, and I'm unsure on domain choices outside of their listed range despite being relic guardians still, but even if I can as I believe, chaos was the only one that would make sense beyond earth, and chaos isn't really the focus of the character so much.


Domain Talk!:


And definitely more primary domains, I understand the need to have primary domains be a bit shorter in listing because just as the longer list of secondaries keeps from pairings of certain domains, too many primary domains would also mean fewer pairings of other kinds. But a small suggestion to encourage people to start to move on to the growing and very nice list of city deities possibly (If that's even wanted) or to emphasize the fact that their presence is felt or there in some way or another enough to be a established faith in the city, maybe allow, given the relic guardian is a priest of a city deity only from the start, that the list of domain choices for city deities be expanded into allowing multiple primary domains but ONLY the additional listed primary domains permitted to that deity to function as a secondary option, and in that case, they gain the turn undead only of the first primary chosen, and cannot choose primary domains as a secondary outside of the primary ones listed. In spirit of relic guardian, it could be cool to allow a different primary domain option than the listed ones as the first choice than the one's from their list, of course given it makes sense and isn't just rpless and shameless powerbuiding.

Primary Domain Possible Suggestions:

Animal (Animal focused deities), War (War and combat focused deities), Trade (Trade deities, phanaxians come to mind, that would be a certain primary for him), Nobility (I see many peerage opportunities), Plant, (Another very common nature-esq deity primary) Protection (Tbh just got a cool idea for this one, though i could see a few potential faiths for it)


Turn Undeads!

[
b]Animal Turn Undead:[/b]

-Bestial Frenzy: The caster, all animals, and allies within the area of effect are induced with bestial rage, gaining blood frenzy for 1 turn+1 round/cha modifier,  and 10% movement speed, allies are given a will saving throw to avoid these effects (DC: lets say, 15+Cha Modifier?)

-Hunger Of The Beast: The caster and all allies, and animals within the area of effect gain vampiric regeneration 2+cha modifier/2 for a 1 turn+1 round/cha modifier

-Strength Of The Wild: The caster, all allies, and animals within the area of effect gain +2 str, dex, con, endure elements at the casters level for 1 turn+1 round/cha modifier

Optional: Omit allies from these effects if too OP, so only caster and animals are effected




War Turn Undead:

-Master Of Arms: For 1 Turn per level/2 caster and all allies in area of effect gain proficiency, weapon focus, and weapon specialization in all weapons (Optionally: +1 Enhancement, +d4 damage of weapon type applied to weapons in hand for all allies and caster in area of effect for 1 Turn per level/2)

-War Cry: All Allies and caster in area of effect gain 10 temporary HP, +1 AB, and 10% movement speed, enemies in area of effect must make a will save (DC: 10+cha modifier) or lose 1 AB and 10% movement speed. These effects last for d4 Rounds+1 round/cha modifier

-Stamina Of The Warlord: Caster and all allies gain +20% movement speed and +2 con for 1 Turn+1 round/cha modifier


Trade (Yup, Trade)

-Eye For Value: The Caster And All Allies within the area of effect gain +5 lore, appraise, search, spot, AND listen for 1 Turn+1 turn per level/2

-Lucky Finds!: All -humanoid races only- (Human, bugbear, lizardfolk, elf, dwarf, ect.) enemies hit with the trade domain turn undead will gain a d4 gold pieces that drop upon death

-Fortune Favors The Bold: The caster ,and all allies receive +1 to all saving throws with an additional +1 per cha modifier/2 (Capped at +3 total bonus) For d4 rounds+1 round/level


Nobility Turn Undead:

-Aura Of Regality: Caster and all allies in area of effect gain +2 cha, +2 persuade, intimidate, bluff, and a reroll on failed related checks for 1 Turn+1 Turn per level/2

-A Leaders Presence: Creates a aura that follows the caster, all allies (only, not the caster, or enemies) within the area of effect are inspired gaining the benefits of a battletide spell, enemies do not suffer the penalties of battletide by entering the aura.

-Lead The Charge!: The caster and all allies gain +50% movement speed for a d4 rounds+1round/level


Plant:

-Reclamation Of The Wild: Centered upon the caster, an entangle, grease, and stinking cloud are created with the caster gaining temporary immunity to all three, the immunity and spells lasting for 1 round/level of caster

-Strength Of The Wood: The caster, all allies, and any plant type enemies/allies in the area of effect gain the benefits of a barkskin spell at the casters level for 1 turn+1 round/cha modifier

-Wreath Of Thorns: The caster, all allies, and any plant type allies/enemies in the area of effect gain a d4 piercing damage shield and DR 5 Slashing/Bludgeoning for a d4 rounds+1 round/cha modifier


Protection:

-Gaurdians Stance: The caster and all allies in the area of effect gain +1 Dodge AC +1/cha modifier (Capped at +3) and immunity to knockdown and slow for d4 rounds+1/cha modifier

-Skin Of Steel: The caster and all allies in the area of effect gain 10 DR/+1 for d3 round+1/level

-A Protectors Duty: All allies in the area of effect gain +1 regeneration for 1 Turn and should any allies fall within that time effected by the turn undead, they will instead be healed for 2d8+10 and the caster will in turn take that amount of damage each time any ally should fall up to a total of 1 ally per charisma modifier (this is uber complicated I know scripting wise, so alternatively!: 1 regen+1/cha modifier (Capped at 3) for 1 Turn)

hope yall like the ideas!

[Egon the Monkey]

I was wondering how to help goblins being proper devious little bastards. One thing EfU does well is make NPC goblins scary, as if you underestimate them they will mess you up.

Goblinoid domain (Primary)
L1: Expeditious Retreat.
L2: Inflict Serious Wounds.
L3: Infestation of Maggots.

That's a selection of spells designed for being annoying and running away at low level. Especially with the buff to CSW that means it applies a 30% healing debuff.
Infestation is both a nasty attack spell, and on theme for goblins.

1/day Racial Power token like for Drow/Orc/Halfling etc. +1 Dex, +2 AB vs Humans.