Apothecary Perk and Tinkering

[Random_White_Guy]

Would it be possible to get a modification the Apothecary Rogue perk for the Tinkering system given that it is a new addition?

While Rogues and Wizards both get a character level boost to tinkering a wizard is capable of things like fox's cunning, empower spell, or etc to boost their Tinker rolls to higher levels even if both classes had the same kits involved.

For a wizard an int spell boost would blast up lore, spellcraft, and craft trap each giving a blanket boost ontop of getting all the other tools required to survive if experimentation goes awry so the similar little nudge as other crafting skills in Rogue direction could be useful for balancing.

[Electrohydra]

Rogues can get bonuses in other ways, notably by taking perks that boost the skills that tinkering uses.

[Pup]

I would be more in favor of a lvl8 perk that is a boosted version of Engineer.  + to Craft Trap, Disable Trap, Open Lock and Set Trap.  Perhaps Lore as it also pertains to Tinkering.  Along with a =>+10 bonus to Tinkering.

That being said, I wouldn't be against expanding and changing the "Apothecary" perk to include Tinkering, though that may make it the go-to for all herbalist, alchemist, AND tinkering rogues (maybe a lower Tinkering bonus, though).  Perhaps it would be better to make a lvl8 perk for each crafting skill?

Apothecary: +15 Herbalism; +5 Heal; Creates a set of dissipating potions each reset (divine potions only).

Alchemist: +15 Alchemy; +5 Spellcraft; Creates a set of dissipating potions each reset (arcane potions only).

Clockmaker: "A master of precision devices, you can build a clock, a deadly trap, or artillery from household trinkets and scrap." +10 Tinkering; +2Craft Trap; +2 Disable Trap; +2 Open Lock; +2 Set Trap; Random throwable each reset.

Or a new one to encompass all:

The DaVinci: +10 Herbalism; +10 Alchemy; +10 Tinkering; +5 Lore; +2 Craft Trap; +2 Heal; +2 Spellcraft.

[Bacon_Cheese_Burger]

Why would an Apothecary  know how to build bombs?

[Random_White_Guy]

Electrohydra: They can! And usually do, but it's still far from even keeled. A single spell of Fox's Cunning can boost a wizard to be on par with a rogue that has to take two perks for +2 craft trap and +3 lore. At the same time though a wizard can cast elemental protection, endurance, ghostly visage, invisibility, boost their armor, etc. which can almost wholly nullify a large amount of any potential unsavory outcomes. Add to that they can also bring in summons to distract unfavorable spawned creatures and it's just... kind of a lot.

Pup: I understand not all perks are supposed to be equal and not all undertakings are identical but at the end of the day if I do live to get level 8, the apothecary helps even the odds in the other craftings so figured it'd make sense to update it for the new chapter/new system. Splitting them up into different perks would just make it even less desirable to do anything but a Wizard Crafter, which I think having a diversity of craft was the focus. Giving rogues a high level back end Tinkering boost doesn't eliminate risk, it just means those recipes found which can be solved can be. There's still ample things that a wizard would be able to survive that would be potential instant death for a Rogue.

To your question BCB: Knowing which Fertilizer to get from the hardware store for kaboomski?

[Electrohydra]

Well, all of these things are things a rogue can have through potions, allies and/or UMD. On the other hand, it's impossible for a wizard to get the rogue's perks. Though I don't think most of them are needed because as far as I know, there aren't any bad outcomes for Tinkering (Other then the crippling disappointment of crafting nothing/a useless item).

Apothecary works because Rogue levels don't count for Herbalism and Alchemy, and those skills require skills that aren't rogue Class Skills. The massive EFUSS bonus compensates for that. Wizards and Rogues on the other hand are -roughly- equal as it is in Tinkering (Rogue has minor perks that help, wizard has easier access to Fox's Cunning). If Apothecary worked for Tinkering, there would be no point in being a wizard tinkerer because Rogues would just be so much better at it.

[Random_White_Guy]

Higher efforts of tinkering can have some adverse reactions. At the end of the day though it's not a matter of one being better than the other but two different approaches.

And yes rogues can have them through potions, allies, and/or UMD but Wizards have all the already in place systemic tools needed for long term and enduring research. They're like big lumbering juggernauts of crafting talent since they can do everything with so much protection and cast spells and more.

Wizards though don't have to spend that much, don't have to rely so heavily on allies, or bother with potions. It's a huge drain on a rogue by comparison. So the back end boost has been used over the years to level the field of play - My suggestion simply to update it for the new system as EFU has already established the need in the Perk's many years of being around.

Rogues are more crafting sharpshooters if you can pardon the metaphor. When it works, it works great. When it fails it's potentially catastrophic.

Wizards or Sorcerors even (as they have their own perk for such things) are grinders.

[cool jewelz]

Rogues should be better at Tinkering than wizards. Maybe just give a base +1 to the roll for each rogue level.

Wizards should be better at alchemy than rogues.

Each class should need to make a sacrifice to be as proficient as the opposite, be it a rogue using consumables and perks or a wizard needing to cross-class skills.