Sorcerer Spells

Started by whyemmdee, August 08, 2019, 02:13:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

whyemmdee

I know this has been talked about a few times on Discordt, but I'd like to formalize this suggestion: increase the spells known for sorcerer.. Specifically I personally would suggest:

1) Sorcerers acquire their third 2nd level spell known at level 6 and their fourth at level 8 (currently it's set to give those spells known at level 7 and 9 respectively).
2) Sorcerers gain a third spell known at 8 instead of level 9.

This to give sorcerers a little bit of extra variation, versatility and options earlier on.

Another option  could be to give each sorcerer perk its own 'free' spell known per spell level that fit their intended theme,, such as Rotbringer getting Ray of enfeeblement/Ghoul touch/Stinking cloud/Contagion at their respective spell levels. This would likely be more preferable if possible, as it would allow for each perk to be given their signature spells to add to the its intended fantasy while still allowing a great deal of spell selection.
tchundere

LoveLess

Personally, I dislike the idea of Sorcerers getting more known spells quicker. Part of what makes them so different is that they need to choose their spells wisely and focus on making them good. Wizards or Clerics are better options for what most people want, and that is, self-sufficiency. Instead I would suggest that Sorcerers get something along the lines of more base spells, while most people argue that they get enough or there is a lot of gear out there for them... Baseline, sorcerers only get 1 to 2 more spell slots compared to wizards because everyone chooses a school.

Rather than make them more similar to wizards, more spell slots would be ideal. Perhaps just make it an two additional slots across the board? This would make them potent as they could keep spams up, renew spells more often between rests throughout a single fight or quest.

Bio

it would be nice for perks to give some extra known spells that fit the theme and wouldn't blow it out of the water on OPness. that way you're not locked into ONLY take buffs to be useful, and also have some stuff you can do that's sorc-y. fits the theme of your magic coming from your bloodline etc.
i am a god

VanillaPudding

A take on the "point" system from summoning I guess but -


flawed example numbers below


Sorcerer gains 100 points / level


Level 1 spells cost 20 points + 2 / level (or some number that helps prevent 50 level 1 spells available at level 10)
Level 2 spells cost X
Level 3 spells cost X

Empower spell increases cost 20% - Extend spell increases cost 15%, etc

Sorcerer regains X amount of points every RL minute , 75% of their maximum upon resting.

Spells cast above point limit have a(60% - spell level) chance to cast. If successful, they still have a 25% chance to cast a "wild" spell. (like wild magic areas?)


Add in some tricks to gain / lose points that fit numerous alignments, replace some of the lesser used kit ideas, etc.


HighGround

I love the idea of elemental bloodlines that could potentially give:


  • Increased damage/ effectiveness of certain elemental spells
  • Access to unique summoning themes
  • Maybe some unique powers

Kind of like the Primordial Druid kit.

Loops

I really like the regenerating casting points idea even if it's crazy. Though you should probably need something like a high cha investment to make it give enough points to be semi reliable.

Alternatively items could use a look. There's still a lot of +0 spell slot items for sorcs, which now do very little. More variety in just the appearance of their clothing would probably go a long way, letting people mix and match more, without going nudey.

Alternatively, access to resources based off their family or bloodline each reset might be nice. Whether that could be reagents, spell-items, summons or even just cosmetic stuff like glittery glowy appearances that suit their magic might be appealing and let them feel more accessible.

Charnelist

Maybe someone else will pick up this torch and run with it, but I'd propose the relic guardian domain system for sorcerers insofar as meshing 'perks' with 'bloodlines'.
As in, picking a combination of bloodline and perk at creation. You cannot pick certain combinations. Certain bloodlines only grant access to certain perks. Etc.
That said, we could even start to split apart perks of similar theme and allow characters to, to a certain extent, mix and match their level bonuses between perks. Within reason.

That level of overhaul would take a lot of time maybe, but it'd be cool.

Scrappa-yeti

While it would be nice to have a fully coded complex solution, a simple stop gap would be to give every sorc perk its own level 5, 2/day spell, like Witch currently has.

Like polymorph, it would be a pertinent spell that is flavourful, but also a bit higher level than you would normally get at 5, to  help smooth out the lumpy mid levels.

Examples might be Infuser getting chain lightening or the necromantic ones getting fear or enervation.

Some classes could also get spell effects or off-class spell tokens.

Scions could get a fire breath, say, and the Zealots might get Hammer of the Gods.

The tokens would keep the DC at a reasonable, fixed level, but it would give all sorcs another button to press to make things more interesting. 

LoveLess

Moving some of the Spell Changes, or adding new ones, like exist in the Perks section would definitely be a cool idea for bloodlines. One that adds Barbarian levels to your CL, but never more than you actually have would be neat. Barbarian 5, Sorcerer 4, would add a maximum of 4 CL for example.

Alternatively, it could add more diversity. Adding one that gives Martial Proficiency, or Blindfight, might be a bit much, but as a possible goal you could work towards as you tap into your bloodline?

Decimate_The_Weak

I wouldn't mind Sorcerers being allowed to choose a Perk and a Bloodline. Some of which might synergize well one another and others being prohibited.

You could even have Prestige bloodlines.

Some examples below...

-

Hagblood:

L1: Ironguts added to spellbook, +2 vs Poison, +2 vs Disease
L5: Mestil's Acid Arrow added to spellbook, +10% Acid Immunity, -10% Fire Vulnerability
L8: Mestil's Acid Breath added to spellbook, +1 Fortitude, Acid based spells reduce enemy armor by 2 for 1 round

Access to Plant & Ooze summoning themes at creation

-
Devilblood:

L1: Scorching Ray added to spellbook, +2 vs Fire
L5: Flame Weapon added to spellbook, +10% Fire Immunity, -10% Cold Vulnerability
L8: Fireball added to spellbook, +2 Bluff, Intimidate, Persuade, Fire based spells trigger Combust (L1)

Access to Devil summoning theme at creation

-
Feyblood:

L1: Color Spray added to spellbook, +1 vs Mind-Affecting,
L5: Charm Person and Invisibility added to spellbook, +1 Reflex, -1 Will
L8: Confusion added to spellbook, Stealthy feat, Ghostly Visage now offers 20% Concealment, Invisibility and Improved Invisibility spells now create Displacement illusory clone

Access to Illusion summoning theme at creation

-
Darkblood:

L1: Negative Energy Ray added to spellbook, +1 vs Death
L5: Negative Energy Burst added to spellbook, +10% Negative Damage immunity
L8: Stone Bones + Enervation added to spellbook, -2 Discipline, -2 Concentration, +2 Spellcraft, +2 Lore

Access to Spirits and Shadows summoning theme at creation,

-
Angelblood:

L1: True Strike added to spellbook, +1 vs Death,
L5: Clarity added to spellbook, +1 Will,
L8: Stoneskin added to spellbook

Access to Celestial summoning theme at creation,

-
Beastblood:

L1: Grease added to spellbook, +5% Movespeed
L5: Cat's Grace + Endurance added to spellbook, +2 AC vs Animals
L8: Stinking Fog, Web added to spellbook, +1 Fortitude

Access to Snake, Beetle or +1 Animal summoning theme at creation

-

Prestigious bloodlines?

Dragonblood
Otherblood
Warlock

Easy To Remember

My favorite idea remains just current Sorcerer perks also providing a few additional spells known (ideally actually known rather than a 1/day widget) strictly relevant to their flavor/niche.

CorstoTerrore

Quote from: Easy To Remember on August 10, 2019, 11:12:41 PM
My favorite idea remains just current Sorcerer perks also providing a few additional spells known (ideally actually known rather than a 1/day widget) strictly relevant to their flavor/niche.

Yeah, this for a good, quicker fix. Later on it might be good to overhaul the class and perks more thoroughly, but as it is now, investing heavily on spells that work with your chosen perk makes life hard for the character as you're not necessarily a good buffbot anymore. That's just the meta of the server, being a backline buffer. You'll have a way worse time if you actually build around your perk, and it's sad because the perks are really nice. I know because I played a dream eater and I invested heavily in that + enchantment magic in general.

Giving each perk some fitting additional spells as spells known allows for more wiggle room with other spells, so you're not going either as a perk sorcerer or a traditional buffer. Should also make each individual sorcerer PC that much different from one another.

Damien

Personally I would rather all sorcerers be given a core model, wherein they automatically get several buff spells for free each spell level (IE pve, mage armour and mw are free, bulls str and endurance are free, etc) then with the actual spell slots you can choose more thematic spells that fit with your concept/perk.

Even on top of that I'd say more spellslot items should exist..Even with all this you will not be as strong as a wizard but at least you can have more fun at the lower levels especially.

LoveLess

Is it mechanically possible to just forcibly give them an arcane spell to their known spells? This might be the best method really to fix a lot of issues, make the bloodlines offer certain known spells like has been mentioned. This would also mean there would not be a huge need to go through and rework perks, just adding bloodlines that grant a known spell, perhaps a few skill bonuses.

Then just whenever a piece of gear would normally grant a single wizard slot and single sorcerer slot, instead it should give the sorcerer two spell slots to every one that a wizard receives? They cannot prepare for every situation and learn a large amount of spells, so they should just try to outpace them. Flood a fight with magic, so to speak.

Random_White_Guy

The core problem is at the end of the day PCs simply want those who can get them the standard loadout. This leads to Sorcerors taking low level buffs and then at level 8 or 9 switching to their 'other' loadout.

If you do want flavor, at lower levels the content allows for weird and goofy builds but when you start hitting the higher tier content people -demand- certain buffs for the sake of survival. Else you're just left sitting at home.
[11:23 PM] Howlando: Feel free LealWG
[11:23 PM] Howlando: I'll give you a high five + fist bump tip

[1:34 AM] BigOrcMan: RwG, a moment on the lips, forever on the hips