Alarm spell rebalancing

[Diabl0658]

I'm of the opinion this spell as it is is maybe a bit too strong if used to its full effect. While its a pain to setup, yes, once its in place it provides a way to silently spy on the movements of other players, for both offensive and defensive reasons.

This alone might not be problematic, but what is problematic is there's really no way to counter the spell by the other players. Area dispel does not remove alarms (I have tried), and there seems to be no way to detect them either.

My suggestion is to allow rogues the ability to detect magical alarms (maybe a hidden skill roll if they step on one that lets them know, or perhaps even before stepping on one?), and also to allow Area Dispels to remove them like any other spell effect. I know things like Spike Growth for example can be area dispelled, so why not Alarm too?

[merrychase]

This is not an idle debate or theoretical practice. This is something in the game world now, at play, effecting characters and players.

 To their credit, Diablo has fully employed this spell for what it is: a level two spell that can fix an opponent in time and space.

Compare this to scry for an insight

Alarm:

Alarm, extended lasts over three hours at level 10
It persists over rests
It is not bound by region or ring, you can sense an alarm from across the cosmos
It is undetectable, there's no contested roll
It is tireless, it fires as many times as there PC's who trip it
You can distinguish signals by stacking casts of the spell ontop of each other. 2 pings means location X, 3 pings means location Y. combined with that fact that this spell persists across rests means you can setup sensors across many choke points.
Given a characters spawn location or other easily inferable facts can locate them using the player list and log in time.
Totally hides your own location, you can spy on others with zero risk of revealing your own location.
Its a level two spell.

Scry on the other hand

Involves a special locations/foci to use
limited number of casts per rest
Can only be used against players in the same ring.
Involves contested rolls
Once per PC per cast is the general paradigm
You have to camp a scry focus to be able to reliably detect if somebody of interest is near
Not available in all locations
Single target, anything else you perceive must be derived from circumstance
If detected, reveals your own location
the ward area spell counters it
Its a level 4 spell (6 for druids and cleric)

Here's the situation
A thoughtful player can know somebody else logs in at a certain time of day, and given facts about their opponent, such as their spawn point, lay down a series of alarms to detect their movements from thirty or more rings away away and be prepared by the time the opponents enters a certain transition to hit them, with exquisite timing, with spells/summons/allies/traps/ etc.

Scry on the other hand remains an incredibly useful spell, but only usable on a much narrower set of circumstances.

To fix, one or several changes could be used
1.) I like the idea of a spider in her web, but it should be local. Alarm could only work in a ring or map that you are currently occupying. No telegraph of location 80 light years away.
2.) Alternatively, if you did want to keep the long range aspects, alarms should not persists across rests. That means somebody who set up 10 extended alarms has to burn through the slots and suffer the consequences of not having those spells when they rest
3.) Make alarms possible to detect. With the design of the game world you can 100% combine map knowledge and transition choke points along with player login times to geolocate somebody. That's too much power, especially for a level 2 spell. Plus it goes against the overall design principle where if somebody is taking a hostile action against your character, your at least have a chance to detect its happening
4.) Make alarms single fire. Retains a lot of its advantages, but now acts more like other traps , once its set off by whoever, it no longer functions. Why should a deadly trap from a rogue only get one fire (that can also potentially reveal location from far away) be radically different in this regard to a spell?

End of the day, Diablo's right. A thoughtful player, especially combined with map knowledge and OOC info such as log in time and player list, can use this spell to pin point movements of locations of many opponents from any distance and in a three and half hour window.

I have thought of several counters to this use of the spell. Lots of erratic movement, doubling back, standing for long periods of time on locations where you think alarms may be. Or idling in locations where it makes no sense to idle. Choosing inefficient routes. Using unexpected spawn locations, using variable log in times or intervals between logins. So far the counters have been reliably lame, and for how linear much of the server really is, ineffective.

[Diabl0658]

Its actually more than a three hour (and twenty minute) window, as I write down the exact times I cast the spell so theres no lapse in coverage

[Diabl0658]

Another possible option is to simply limit the number of alarms one can have out at a time.
Perhaps something like 3 + Caster Level (so that non casters can still use alarm trinkets for example)

This will leave most users unaffected and limit the excess allowed by the spell as it currently is.

Cast an alarm while you are maxed out? The least recently placed alarm expires immedietely, allowing you to rotate alarms if you like.

Perhaps allow SF or GSF abjuration increase this limit?

[Father Time]

Why allow more then one alarm at all? Jesus christ. Seems excessive that it lasts /that/ long and you can set dozens of them at all.

[SN]

Just remove the spell, less work

[Ramc]

I got to messing around with Alarm finally and it is... really really strong as implemented and pretty much 100% as Merrychase spelled out.

Like, it should be dialed back and Rogues should definitely have a chance to Detect Magic Traps (as they classically do) to know when an alarm is near, and ideally be able to disarm it too. It makes setting up ambushes trivial with no meaningful counterplay as-is.

Also alarms should probably not be stackable.

[Diabl0658]

I imagine the actual coding might be sort of a nightmare to deal with, but a "quick fix" might be to raise alarm from a level 2 spell to a level 3 or even 4 spell until something better can be worked out.

[VanillaPudding]

Duration to 2 turns / level (like flame weapon) - Fixed

[Vlaid]

The actual problem with alarm is a couple things.

1 - When you rest the alarms don't go away so you can spam them out then rest, which is not how spells should work. Summon storm should function the same way where resting makes any storms you have summoned cease.
2- No indication you've traggered an alarm by any function (maybe a spellcraft check allowing you to notice)
3- There are no spells to counter it or be able to see where the alarms are. Something like trueseeing or some other potential counter.
4- No way to remove them even if you saw exactly where it was cast (to my knowledge)

[Tala]

Enjoy this nonsense while it lasts, the nerf will come.