Remove Buyable Crafting Feats

[cmenden]

I think craft wand and brew potion should require more commitment from builds and not be something anyone can buy from NPCs

What do others think?

[sankarul]

I sort of agree, though I worry that people will just make alts and use them for crafting cheaply to their friends. Which... would be damn lame.

Another possible solution would be to hide the crafting feats behind a bigger cost. Not just something you can grind out with a few quests, but something like prestige stuff or so? But I think a removal of it would also be, possibly, nice.

[Random_White_Guy]

I think like a lot of things it was great in theory but in practice just kind of opened a can of worms. Sorcerers in particular got a huge power boost from this since they had finite feats already, and then perks stacked atop potions stacked atop things like II/Stoneskin/Haste/etc that folks usually often take for Sorcs suddenly boosted to 11.

The economics of crafting to me is a hard thing to reconcile since the RP surrounding it is Abyssmal.  The lack of RP involved in the process is a cancer i'd love to see snuffed out on EFU because it really does turn into the barest form of transaction where you may as well have NPCs doing it. Price variations are almost impossible, there's no actual economics like scarcity or supply/demand, it's literally just

"Hey I back from quest"
"welcome 2 shop"
"what r price"
"2nd circle 80 third circle 180"
"3 of x 4 of y 2 of z plz"
"kk I fetch bottle"

I get it's a great resource to help PCs who are on the outs recover, and can help boost stories as people have more expendable income, but i'd argue that Casters already have the most expendable income out of any class in EFU to start with.
If anything i'd say:

Make it a Generalist Wizard perk where if you're losing spell slots you gain other areas for free

Add a Sorcerer Perk who gains from it with some "Contract/Deal" focus since the binding of those is big in sorcerous lore for warlocks and others

Trade Domain gives Potions for free for X Cleric levels and Wands and Scroll for pure cleric

Druids can trade mushrooms/current system kinda works for them, etc.

It would at least make more flavorful character creation choices viable, with alternative pay outs and non-combat utility and other benefits.

[cmenden]

I like a lot of these ideas, and do admit I'd have less of a problem with it as a thing if it was a faction perk or similarly rare and special in some way

I think my big issue with it as it is currently is that every PC who lives long enough will be able to find the money to buy crafting, so it stopped being a special thing and just became an expected thing

I also see why there might be worry that people will make alts and do scummy things but I mean, I wouldn't say the current solution prevents that in any way, since people are still free to make alts if they want to avoid the xp drain on their high level PC

As with any bad behavior like that, it's better to deal with it on a case by case basis rather than punish the whole player base!

[merrychase]

There is for sure an upside for these being fairly accessible feats; there's a straight forward way to put consumables in the hands of characters so they can do the hard/fun/dangerous things all the while doesn't need to be a big hit to what feats they might take.

On the other hand to RwG's point, alot (though not all) of the transaction part of this hardly even qualifies as roleplay.

So maybe something middle of the road would work.

Imagine you can still easily access the feats, but your throughput is throttled, if you are a lone brewer, you are capped at how many things you can brew efficiently. something like you can make 5 potions efficiently, and after that it starts to becomes steeply more costly, with some decay/cool down. Simultaneously, let's say there's a small, limited number of items or workbenches (licenses?) which eliminate this cap, and allow you to more efficiently mass produce. These scarce resources than could be locked behind factions or perks, or otherwise be the objects of competition for those that want to make money large scale as merchants.

[Diabl0658]

I will just take the craft wand feat. You cannot stop me.

[LoveLess]

There's no reason it needs to be a feat you can buy, especially if it just becomes a checkpoint for everyone.

At this point it's almost an expectation that if you can cast spells, you can make potions. And eventually, wands.

[Pandip]

I hate that these are buyable feats. I hate that the roleplay is so bad.

But I've also tried other servers where everything was scattered amongst vendors and I also kind of hated that. I appreciate, at least, that the current method of having players sell potions and wands requires people to interact with one another, even if the roleplay is abysmal. Removing the feats isn't going to change how bad shop keeper roleplay is. Baring a few exceptions, it has always been an awful, out of character experience.

This is a necessary evil. There has to be a way to exchange gold for supplies.

If we put everything into easily accessible vendors with set prices, you lose out on the opportunity to get characters to congregate and interact with each other.

If we make it more difficult to get the feats, the premium on having a crafter goes up and people end up resorting to shitty behavior to get their supply fix. OOC transactions. Fence sitting merchants that make tens of thousands doing nothing. Groups on the outs not having a venue to get supplies.

This sucks no matter how you slice it. Like, if we had certain vendors locked behind factions with better prices, you know someone's going to exploit it. Everyone has to buy Bark for 90 but the druid faction gets it for 80? You know some asshat is going to start selling that to outsiders for 85.

I wouldn't mind trying the vendor method but ultimately I'm ambivalent.

[putrid_plum]

I've always disliked they were buyable.  Take the feat if you want to craft.  I feel maybe next phase they should not be buyable.

[Mia]

I am not sure there really is a way to use these feats to create interesting roleplay much. If that was ever the goal. Most people aren't interested in roleplaying with their brewer. But I do believe it is more interesting or at least engaging than buying supply for an NPC merchant.

The way it is set up now, brewing and wandmaking isn't really anything special anymore. And sort of becomes a small powerspike/reward for long lived characters. And I kind of like it that way.

Because the alternative from v4 was that some random gnome alt would occasionally open up a stall and sell you their potions. Just making money, logging out, occasionally going on a single kobolds quest to recharge exp. Because no one wanted to waste precious feats on something like crafting, when you could be stronger and just buy your supplies from someone else.

[Diabl0658]

If your argument is that selling wands/potions/scrolls does not generate good role-play, I think the problem might be the players and not the mechanics. I have discussed conspiracy theories, shared intel, talked religion, and even been assassinated opening a shop stall to sell wands, so from my end I am not seeing whats being described happening. Besides, if someone wasn't going to have an interesting conversation with your PC at your shop stall, odds are they probably weren't going to talk to you much otherwise.

If you think its causing an issue with too much supply, and your solution is to make people pick the feat? People will indeed pick the feat, but it'll be far fewer. You will either end up with factions completely cut off from a certain resource while others are swimming in it, or people will make OOC plans to get a wand crafting PC on their team. The problem is likely just too much gold in circulation, not the buy-able feats.

[LoveLess]

An alternative might be that you can only learn one or the other through purchasing it. Might open up competition for sellers and allow more people to get involved, which feels kind of like a decent middle-ground.

[Bacon_Cheese_Burger]

The problem if you ask me. Is that players have too much gold. So they can buy too many potions/wands. It is not uncommon of players to have 60+ of various potions. Why does this happen?
It happens becoruse casters heal fighters in combat.
So why can casters always heal fighters? It is becourse of the large amout of healing items that drop on quests. Take ash.. Normaly when a pc (atleast mine) reach lvl 7 i will have 200-300 charges of cmw just in ash.  I can then use this ash to heal fighters, the fighters will then be able to acumulate ALOT of gold for potions and wands. And casters can acumulate alot of gold for feats.

Solution. Nerf the shit out of ash drops. Perhaps make it so that the cmw ash is not dropped as much as it do now.

Less ash -> Less gold for everyone -> Less stocking up on huge amouts of potions/wands -> Less reson to buy crafting feats.