Heart Clutch

[SwiftyWillownall]

Heart Clutch is an amazing spell on paper. It's a fort save vs evil, which deals 1d4 negative energy a round and paralyzes the target if they fail the save. The best part is that the duration is infinite so long as the caster can continue to concentrate and the target keeps failing their fort saves. However, I've been feeling that this spell is quite terrible in practice and is really nothing more but a cool RP tool, if it actually works. Because of all the conditions you have to make in order to use this spell, you'd be lucky if it were to last half the rounds as hold person does. All in all it's pretty lack luster for a 3rd circle spell. So, I think the following changes should be made to it.

1. If the target succeeds in the saving throw, it does not cancel the spell all together. Instead, the target takes no damage that round and is not paralyzed that round. The target must keep making fort saves vs evil each round the caster continues the spell.

2. The caster's concentration skill should take effect. If you click anywhere, type, the game makes you take an AoO, you get hit, etc. the spell automatically fails. I think the spell should only stop if either the caster stops the spell themselves(Or gets inhibited), or if the caster fails a concentration skill check.

3. Increase the damage taken per round to 1d6 or 1d8. The target is litterally having their heart being crushed. That's incredibly painful. As it stands the spell is a hold person, but the target gets a save every round, the caster can be stopped, it doesn't last as long as a hold person, and the most important part being that the caster is unable to do anything else while using heart clutch. It might not sound like it but this is a huge liability to the caster.

[Laurian]

IMO, As it stands, the spell is useful for Executions, and RP. That's about it
(The RP being with no mobs around, and players between the clutched character and the caster)

[Zango_Unchained]

The spell also stops randomly, my suggestion is make it based on the scripting for black blade of disaster, and give it a dc that grows by one for every round the victim is influenced by it or make the damage grow by a d4 every round.

[Echigo]

The spell also stops randomly, my suggestion is make it based on the scripting for black blade of disaster, and give it a dc that grows by one for every round the victim is influenced by it or make the damage grow by a d4 every round.

[Paha]

And what good does this quote bring to this suggestion? Suggestions such as original post are welcomed and great, and well noted.

Good notions and further mechanical suggestions or ideas, welcome as well. Quoting, seconding opinions or something else, is not. Stop it.

[VanillaPudding]

I think the best option would be a scaling concentration check combined with the fortitude save. Maybe start with a base of 20 concentration check on the second round (not the first!) that then gains difficulty by a number
(3, 5, something) from there.

[oni_misho]

I have an Idea for the spell, as written in description as the caster is Grabbing at the targets heart. so why not let the spell reflect just that.
have it so the caster has to make a concentration check to keep the spell going. at the same time have the target of the spell make a fortitude check that if he succeeds the check by 10 then it doesn't stop him that round, if he succeeds just under 10 he is only stunned but if he fails he needs to make a death saving through or die.
both the concentration check and fort save is increased every round until one fails the check or save.

on a side note you should have a way to allow the caster to stop the spell if he so wishes.

[Dredi]

Would also be fun to see a "Smoking heart" if the damage from it does result in a kill, perhaps as an Alchemy reagent or just for fun

[Paha]

I have edited damage some, to increase with succesful rounds, to a point.

After many tests I found this to be more balanced solution, for now, for a rank III spell.

I may change it more as I observe how it is.

If you start however doing several dozen damages a round, report it. It can reach up to a very decent amount, but not really above two dozen.

[SwiftyWillownall]

Tested timestamp after reset.
Heart clutch remains unchanged.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

If the target is subdued each save should be an autofail.  Would be nice to see executions by this spell but they end up being hilariously underwhelming when the subdualed, 1 hp near death guy makes his saves each time its cast.

[Paha]

Heart clutch definitely is not unchanged. Works exactly as changes intended in damage. It will still require you to be able to hold your target more than one more round.

Just like death magic, this is not one sure spell choice. Those that got huge fort saves are able to resist it. But if you happen to be able to build up big dc and get fort saves down on your target - pity the foo'.

[SwiftyWillownall]

Hmm, something's not quite adding up here. I just tested it again, damage is still in the 1d3 range, and I see what Zango mentioned earlier. The spell stops itself after the first round more often than not, regardless if you do anything or not. Your concentration auto breaks. We can test it out some more, but I think the rest of this should be moved over to the bug reports thread.

Edit: Damage may be working correctly, My rolls may have been minimal. Concentration not working correctly is confirmed however.

[Paha]

Concentration does not auto-break. You will need to stand still, as there is no specific animation loop in, yet atleast until i feel like sorting it out.

Damage and saving throw will keep going until you move, or it's broken. It does work. I've tested it dozen times, with player character and NPC alike. You're just not seeing something right or misunderstanding it.

As I've said, if you think you got a bug, make a bug report, indeed.