Polythiesm and You: An EFU Rant

[Drakill Tannan]

Yea.. it's complicated. For me, and because i don't know D&D by any other way than NWN, i just chose a diety that made sence (acording to steve) and i foghet about it, if asked, i'll say i pray for it when alone and in private or something. And that only because druids need a god to cast spells..

My other character is faithless. Problem solved.

[Howlando]

It is strongly recommended not to play a "Faithless" character.

[artfuldodger99]

The only people i could see telling openly evil clerics of besheba, bane, umberlee, talos to go to hell would be paladins and gods of very goodly cleric (Tyr, Lathander).... and they may not do so with great confidence.
 
Almost all lay people wouldn't want to piss off some powerful god who has a major portfolio in their everyday life.
 
Thats why for all non-cleric/paladin types i fully agree with RWG's point, and for much of the time even clerics of good gods may not want to openly display such contempt.

[The Crimson Magician]

I, in my opinion openly embrace faithless characters. I have a large amount of fun occassionally finding that preacher, (which is preaching about things my character likes) and then roleplaying through a conversion environment.

[Joe Desu]

Yet again another rampling from one of the old geezers.
 
It would be nice if zealots - clerics and paladins, would promote their deities more. It would be nice to hear them provide reason for praying to them in numerous situations. With such short lifespans there is little time to hear about other deities from them. It would be nice for to see less potion & wand businessmen and more refusals to provide the graces of the gods to ungrateful scum. "Oh I am sorry that buff turned out to be a curse, you must not have really meant that prayer. You had better mean it next time."
 
It would be nice for people to have a healthy fear of dieties - good and evil. it would be nice for non-zealots to actually have a few dieties in mind as they go about their day. You have a chance to choose from numerous dudes and chicks, why go for a boring monotheistic or faithless. Understanding that bad hit rolls or save rolls could be directly affected by how you have been paying attention to the deities is the way of the world.
 
Faithless - give me a break. Don't be so monogamous, (p)lay the field. Those dieties happen to be real in this game, duh! At least one sighting of a diety's avatar was IG some months back. Moander is also big in our EFU world. Just because you do not see them hanging at the gobsquat don't mean they are not important.

[Sandstorm]

Simply because you do not have a specific deity you always worship does not mean you are faithless. Faithless means you do not believe in the Gods and/or do not worship any of them at any time.

[Mort]

Worshipping a God also help the DMs understand your character and his motivations better.

If we want to run something for a PC, it gives us an easy hook, etc. So that's another + of having a god that you researched slightly in your deity field!

Just yet another advantage.

[Secutor]

In regards to the topic at hand which RwG is trying to address, the reason why most, yea nearly all, players are stuck in the deity-superiority complex is that most modern cultures (that is, those which this player base is drawn from) are no longer superstitious in such a way as these characters should be.

As far as I can tell, the FR pantheon and cosmos are most closely related to, of any one religion in human history, to the Greco-Roman pantheon and myths. Here we have:

• Large, splendorous temples to specific gods, significant bodies of people who adopted patron gods (most significant Greek city-states had a patron, the most notable would be Athens). Likewise, clergies who attend those specific temples and their gods, festivals devoted to certain gods, and heroes who often receive aid or blessings from particular gods (see: Odysseus/Athena, Aeneas/Aphrodite, etc).
• Deities with portfolios which encompassed particular trades, activities, or spheres of influence (Mercury: god of trade, orators, thieves, secrets, and travel. Apollo: god of musicians, medicine, artisans, hunters, and the sun. Minerva: goddess of council, inspiration, stratagems, warriors, and virginity. And so on.).
• The fundamental assumption that gods are likened to men, are individuals, and have similar motivations as men do (love, hate, vengeance, jealousy, etc [This is further exemplified by the fact that both cosmologies feature gods or demigods that were formerly mortal.]).
• Gods who feature predominantly in, and influence the outcomes of the efforts and conflicts of mortals, to the point of contradicting one another to further their aims. The Trojan War saw the gods taking sides with the mortals.

Therefore, to properly play in a setting like this, our characters must act closely to how classical Greeks and Romans would. What inhibits us from doing so, simply, is that we are not classical Greeks and Romans. To make matters worse, most, if not all, players on EfU come from the Judeo-Christian tradition (any one of the three major "religions of the Book" which come from the Old Testament: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism [apologies for those Hindus and Buddhists out there who I may have overlooked!]) which has a very different perspective of divinity, and with that comes starkly incongruent ways of acting and thinking. This makes us pretty bad at playing superstitious polytheists.

The Judeo-Christian legacy reminds players that their characters should pray when undertaking an endeavor or to give thanks to a deity when they come into fortune, but what is lost is the reflex to search "to whom" those prayers must be directed simply due to the nature of monotheism. This is the fundamental issue that RwG is driving at, but it is worsened by contradictory natures of the two types of religion.

The nature of these modern religions "of the Book" also amplify the good/evil spectrum. Where in the Greco-Roman tradition, gods were seen to perform as many base, vulgar, or sinful acts as they did bestow mercies and do "good", the God of the Old Testament origins has the attribute of infallibility. He cannot be questioned, he cannot be toppled, he cannot be defeated, and as such, all sins, evil, and general amoral things in the world are either man's fault or man's responsibility to mitigate (what I term a "deity-superiority complex"). Players go into the FR cosmology seeing those gods not as individuals with certain agendas, personalities, or characteristics, but rather as agents of Good, Evil, or whatever alignment they have been defined as in this somewhat limiting system of D&D's. Since I am assuming that FR's pantheon and belief system is closest to the Greco-Roman style, and since the former is closer to that style, and the latter stemming from the Judeo-Christian belief, playing via that second mindset is wrong. Where people of the Book are looking to be guided, corrected, and shown the way by their celestial exemplar in the sky, seeking purity through virtue, piety, and morality, I feel as though polytheists often treat their divinities as explanations for everything that they see around them, a thought process crowned by etiological myths and genealogies of the gods and their mortal children.

So, what we get is a crossing over. We apply our mindset to this really very radically different belief structure and force the superstitions of Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant (just for example) traditions into the gap left by our misunderstanding of monotheism, and everything becomes dissonant. We can see that come out pronouncedly in our setting (and much of the familiar FR setting) because much of it is based on the medieval Catholic west (and a mix of the medieval Muslim middle/near-East). So, it is easy to blame this inconsistent setting for our religion woes, but even in its validity it is ultimately a scapegoat for ourselves.

To overcome our problem with playing polytheists can be overcome by escaping the monotheist thought process, and try to think about your character's deities as the Greeks and Romans might have. I imagine people going about their daily lives as usual, respecting shrines if they see them, making way for priests if they encounter them, performing rituals if the need arises or it is the proper occasion*, and really only calling upon specific gods when it is proper. Of course, it is not fully applicable because in FR magic is real and so are the gods, so the air of mystery, superstition, and ritual are mingled stupidly with (or even dispelled by) a kind of empirical modern magical meta-science.

(*Some ideas: When someone wished to undertake some great endeavor, they consulted an oracle, payed a significant tithe to a priest of the patron god of the proper occasion [Bacchus for a party, Mars for a battle, Janus for a housewarming, Hera for a birth, Asclepius when a loved one fell ill, Poseidon before a voyage...] and performed sacrifices. If they disliked someone immensely, they performed a curse in the name of the stranger gods like Hecate, Hades, and The Fates along with some ritual. I am actually drawing these from the HBO series Rome which has a very real-feeling way of making the gods present in every-day life, however leaving the meddlings of mortals to mortals.)

This exploration of the frustration of FR's perplexing religious situation in mind, my suggestion would be to play however you want, because it's fantasy! Regardless of the irony of my conclusion rendering this whole dissertation pointless, I think that people can get away with whatever they want here - particularly zealous characters, characters who do little more than pay lip service to their immortal betters, or characters who do what they need to do to get through the day. My take on it is that most people in this kind of setting instinctually analyze the situation that they are in and glean which deity, if sated or appealed to, would best or most willingly aid them. I also think that mortals fighting wars in the name of certain gods is silly. However, lobbying for the alliance of a certain god to your cause (which is made all the easier if your cause falls under their portfolio) is totally cool. Even though it's not how things roll, I would be pleased to see fewer "[Class] of [Deity]" characters (excepting divine spellcasters, of course). Monks who seek self-perfection through the observation of death would revere Kelemvor or Velsharoon, but would not be insistently upholding their dogmas or fighting religious wars for them. Likewise for opportunistic rogues who tend to worship Mask, stoic sailors who give their good words to Valkur (and definitely do NOT scorn Umberlee!), kindly merchants who pray to Tymora for good deals, and warriors who seek Tempus' aid to win battles for his lord or employer. It is especially important to keep this in mind for the deities who foster in players concepts for more extreme characters, such as Torm, Tyr, Bane, Cyric, Hoar, and Garagos. I challenge you all to think of some unique ways of employing these gods as your PC's patrons. E.g. a world-weary veteran of the wars who has seen considerable slaughter and ruin and prays to Garagos ritually to assure that same bloodthirst and savagery from destroying him. His play-style might be, however, closer to a Tempusian or Red Knightist: calculating, careful, and honorable, yet tired, cynical, and fierce when seriously threatened.

[As a footnote, while you may claim to be atheist, non-religious, or a believer in some drastic order or unique spirituality, chances are if you grew up in a country predominantly Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, you are applicable to what I call the Judeo-Christian tradition due to the inescapable influence which your culture exerts on you and your formative years.]

[Jayde Moon]

Too smart.  Didn't read  :P

[Underbard]

The gnome in the noob tower asked me if I knew what a Banite farmer grows.  :)

[Sedarine]

The gnome in the noob tower asked me if I knew what a Banite farmer grows.  :)

Are you serious?! 0.o


Well put Secutor. I've always sort of pictured it like that (Greek or Roman). I think there's likely a diety you were born/ raised/ taught of and accepted. But you know of the others and their power; and that power is real and to be feared a bit.

More DM action when they see diety bashing IMO...a curse, a lightning bolt...be creative ;)

[Dr Dragon]

I honestly think that lack of respect to certain deities need to cause the effects. If people show no respect to Talos make storms on the island strike lightning at Pcs and all around. If people have no respect and insult Umberlee give them hell if they ever decide to take up sailing somewhere. ETC that is my idea and maybe then Pcs will wake up and see that gods are a contributing force and not just clerics that can be killed or an afterlife.

-DRD

[Howlando]

Well, we do a certain degree of that but my personal preference is for deities to remain fairly aloof. Those kinds of punishments are best reserved for PC servants of particular deities. Disrespect a deity, and the deity will expect their cleric to handle the punishment - and maybe send a 43rd tier adjudication assistant's assistant's rank 4a(c) servant to reward a cleric that does a good job of that.

Gods and godesses walking the earth and meddling in human affairs directly is not something you will see much in EFU!

[Dr Dragon]

Oh I was talking more on the lines of simple lightning strikes during storms not deities themselves walking over toril slaying heretics.