PC Abilities vs Player Abilities

[9lives]

That was, more or less, an attempt to separate my opinions from the team proper and an excuse to use brackets.

The problem is that you suck.

[Vlaid]

If we should limit our characters to those with mental and physical capacity similar to our own, then for what purpose do we play this game of imagination and wonder where we might live out our fantasies?

[Metro_Pack]

And there are times when some one will say, "So 729 amongst 7 of us is...?", and I immediately know "104, give or take a few" with out the use of a calculator.  So not every mathematical answer IG is with the use of a calculator.

Division is incredibly easy, btw. For example, 700/7=100 and 29/7 = 4 and change, so 104. Anyone can do this <_<

[Letsplayforfun]

The thing is, you can argue all you want, unless there's some kind of chart published saying 8-9 INT characters can do this, can't do that, 10-11 INT can do this, cant do that, etc.. you'll just argue forever.

BTW, human social studies (Howard Gardner) counts (more than) 8 kinds of 'Intelligence', located in various parts of our brain. Basically:
- musical intelligence
- corporal intelligence
- logical intelligence
- language intelligence
- space intelligence
- relational intelligence
- personnal intelligence
- nature intelligence

We usually favor 'logical intelligence', but that's just because we deem it more useful in modern societies...

[Vlaid]

In game terms we qualify many of those types of intelligence into Wisdom or Charisma or various skill checks.

[derfo]

low intelligence people: not smart
high intelligence people: smart

[Listen in Silence]

I disagree with Cruzel, mostly. Though I have noticed several occasions where I take the time on some high int char to do the maths after a quest in my head, just to find that the more standard int chars have already tossed out the correct answer.

I do not approve of this extensive use of calculators, but that isn't because I think people shouldn't have high int characters unless they're intelligent. It's because characters who shouldn't be able to do such quick calculations suddenly spew up completely correct figures, something that is far too easy to do as a player, since the calculator is so close at hand.

(Using here the example that started the debate in the other thread)

[RIPnogarD]

IMO there is the definition of the stat and the reality of it…
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Int: To me a poor vocabulary doesn’t always mean somebody has a low intelligence it may just be racial dialect or even a speech impediment. Or as was said you could simply be uneducated but have the learning capacity available and perhaps be great at logic and word problems but not long division or spelling. Then there are eidetic and photographic memories to contend with, their IQ is based on what they have heard, seen or read and although they may be able to get you the correct answers because they have seen the formula it doesn’t necessarily mean they know how the formula really works or why. (Athough I do dislike playing a PC that is smarter than me.)

Str: To me Strength is more of a measure of not just how much you can press but the force and power you are able to deliver also. Who’s best at knocking down a door: A 110-pound black belt, a 225 lb body builder or a 500 lb fat man? Add any two or more of these together and you have the winner. A 500 lb <(power) body-building <(strength) black-belt <(force) will undoubtedly take out most doors with a single kick.

Dex: Balance, speed, agility, flexibility and I even like to add confidence to this list. Again, being awesome at any one of these may give you a high dex but you could also be mediocre at all of them and have a higher dex than Jet Li. Jet Li is one fast mother but would his dex be higher than an Olympic gold medalist in gymnastics who can do back flips on a balance beam?

Con: Physical & mental health, stamina, endurance, regenerative ability, allergies, and others. I always like to say caution is the hidden factor of constitution, mostly because a cautious person may actually outlive an impulsive, curious or brave person.

Wis: Besides the basic mental stability, common sense and willpower (or stubbornness), there is streetwise, nature wise, age-wise, religion wise, etc., etc… Wisdom is more a statistic of a morals and ethics to me. The streetwise punk and a Judge both have a certain amount of wisdom but on differing levels of morality and ethics, and neither would be able to survive in the others world for very long.

Cha: Per canon rules I believe charisma is now combined with comeliness once again. Both have their place and having both of course makes a person even more charismatic. But I also like to include a couple other factors such as PC class, level, Str, Dex, Con, Int and Wis… To me charisma is based off the character in whole, each of his or her abilities, classes and levels factoring into and maybe even turning into an average of the entire PC plus or minus the basics of charisma and comeliness. But with charisma I also feel that role-playing this stat is based on both the player and the PC. I think it is perfectly acceptable to say a PC has an 18 Cha but only plays out as maybe a 10 or 12 (or whatever). Charisma does not have to be flaunted and certainly doesn’t have to be forced on the PC based on his or her personalities. Just because a person has the ability to take charge of a given situation doesn’t always mean s/he wants to is going to or has to.
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In a nutshell I guess what I do is not to limit myself to the definition of the stat when assigning them to my PC. This may not be the best way to do it but it helps me justify the PC a bit easier.

[Hammerfist0]

Wisdom and Inteligance are hard to fake. No matter how many calculators you throw around, your PC will still be a bumbling idiot if you are.

Wisdom is even worse, as much of wisdom is impossible through the NWN client.

But Im not going to say you cant try. Just try to avoid such great statements like (Coming from an 18 int wisard, I kid you not) "I hate to have had fought through so many undead and didnt find any magic". >_>

[RIPnogarD]

Some of you may remember Scrapper. I played him as if his intelligence was 7 or 8, talking to his stuffed animal and shit, (just short of needing a drool cup). If you hung around and actually talked to him you might have seen me roll a bluff check occasionally. Based on how long he talked or what the conversation was about you may have gotten an //OOC or [tell] from me saying, “You get the impression Scrapper may be smarter than he acts.” His intelligence and wisdom where both 10, he was definitely not a genius but he was not stupid either. I played him off the fact that he was ugly and people seen him as not just ugly but slow in the head. He grew up getting away with things because people were sympathetic towards the ‘slow’ guy, so he worked with it instead of against it.

Catch more flies with honey than vinegar theory…
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[Hammerfist0]

Catch more flies with honey than vinegar theory…

I tested that in collage. Glycerin caught the most, Vinegar the second most, honey the third, and peanut butter the least.

The old wives are lieing to you.

[PanamaLane]

Maybe you should think this way;

Recipes are based on regional ingredients; You have no idea where (geographically speaking) you are. You/your PC has never been to Ymph, so its perfectly understandable you don't know how to use local ingredients to make things.

That's fine. It was just an example. In this case, even if he doesn't have the right ingredients or however we choose to justify it, I think we can also make the case that he knows other recipes that I don't.

Just as your character might know what its like to be married when you do not, or know how to cast a spell when you do not, your character is your character and you're really just reading his/her lines as they exist in the improvosational script.

What those lines read should be a combination of abilities, background and personality.

[RIPnogarD]

Actually I think literality is part of the issue with stats and the playing of them IG/IC. It’s not the fact that flies like shit better than honey, it’s the way you interpret it or them (the stats).

[Kiaring]

There are IC reasons why alchemical recipes are secret.

Cruzel is so wrong it isn't even funny anymore.

Quelle suprise imo

[Easy]

I believe the discussion has migrated from it's initial intent to a discussion about intelligence.

Going back to comments for the OP.

I couldn't disagree with Cruzel more.  We are not our PCs.  We play them, but we are not them.  When we make personal consolidations to be more and more like our PCs it becomes more and more like "playing yourself" than "role playing".

Do I think intelligent people should limit themselves to playing intelligent characters?  No.  Why is the importance of the strength stat any different than the important stat.  To say so would be a move to incredible bias in the stat system.  Why can a strong person play a weak character, but a dumb person not play an intelligent character?  Unfair to the stat system.

There is something to be said about intelligent/hawt(err... charismatic) players playing intelligent/charismatic characters.  Given they may have more real world experience in those fields, they MIGHT do a better job representing those fields, but to say that one should limit their character by their own abilities as a player is folly.  It causes a fundamental break in what role-playing really is.  It is a given some of our characters might take on the similar styles, because we have to represent them all through the same medium, and it is very much an art form.

No, people should not limit themselves.  This is a fantasy game afterall.  To me one of my favorite parts about role-play is playing that which is vastly different from myself.  Im not a genius but I love racking my brain for a few long words when I am playing a wizard.

How are we ever going to become better role-players if we consistently limit ourself to our own abilities?  Many of which don't even translate to a DnD setting.