Raise dead

[Kiaring]

If raise dead costs 700 gold, I believe this price should be raised. It does not make sense for a spell to raise the dead to cost less from Tobar than a lot of the shit that ends up in his stall when players sell it.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Tobar shouldn't be buying items in the first place -.-. At the price players sell it, this is destroying the player economy.

[Kiaring]

I'm fine with Tobar buying shit for at most 12 gold and selling it for ridiculously high prices; Most of the trade seems to be PC-PC these days, so I'm not too worried about it.

I'm not fine with raise dead spells costing 700 gold.

[Mort]

This is a bug.

[Kiaring]

It is indicated here that the new price for Raise Dead spells is 1300 gp. I still believe this to be too little. My suggestion would be placing it somewhere in the realm of 3.5-4.5k gold. Why? Because coming back from the dead is a real miracle, not something available to everyone and their mother. Sure, not a lot of characters have access to that kind of money, and some probably never will - but what every character should have access to is allies, and if they play their cards right, allies who'd want to see them returned to life badly enough to dish out this kind of cash. Not to mention it's a wonderful gold-sink (or XP sink, since I expect many will be taking the respawn option if this is implemented).

[Egon the Monkey]

Well, right now it's 44% more expensive than in the UD. And, Raise Dead *scrolls* are available for 2500 or so at *spoiler*. 3.5-4k would not only be silly, but would NOT work as a gold sink. You'd give up, log and lose the body before any allies scrounged up that huge amount. It would just make Raise dead a joke, since nobody who wasn't a merchant or with a rich faction could afford it. We're not all powerquesters.

The 700 gold raises were a good gold sink, as people were willing to fork out that much hard earned cash for a raise.

Als, this would have a massive impact on PVP and DM quests. Currently if you get FDed/hit on a no respawn Dm quest, allies have a good chance of affording the 1.3k. 700 was defenitely affordable, and 900 was a reasonable burden.

I *liked* the cheaper raising, as it reduced respawns on quests, made things more interesting as opposed to "hey guys, I'm fine! Again!" since people were more likely to think "It's worth a raise, that's too much XP to lose".

On a related note, has anyone ever SEEN a diamond on the new setting? I want to make a Waukeeenar and sell raises for 1k now :D

Finally, Create Undead, a higher level scroll, is not exactly uncommon. One thing I'd not mind seeing is Raise Dead Scrolls as generic but very rare loot. Then you would have the chance of a faction (not necessarily a rich one even) having one in stores.

[Xorisai]

I agree that the trend of people getting raised instead of respawning on quests is a good one: Barring a TPK, you are essentially immortal on a quest unless you decide to perma yourself.  Adventuring is a dangerous occupation and I feel it adds to the immersion when, every so often, that ogre/harpy/whatever actually kills somebody.   Not all the time.

I don't see raising the dead as being any more "miraculous" than another high-level spell.

[Nihm]

Try healing them then when they're bleeding all the way from 1-9 and you're too cheap to use a healing item, that way they don't have to respawn and you don't have to suspend your immersion

[Kiaring]

Well, right now it's 44% more expensive than in the UD. And, Raise Dead *scrolls* are available for 2500 or so at *spoiler*. 3.5-4k would not only be silly, but would NOT work as a gold sink. You'd give up, log and lose the body before any allies scrounged up that huge amount. It would just make Raise dead a joke, since nobody who wasn't a merchant or with a rich faction could afford it. We're not all powerquesters.

BBN.

The 700 gold raises were a good gold sink, as people were willing to fork out that much hard earned cash for a raise.

No, they were a joke. A level 3 character with four hours on the server can afford that if they play their cards right. Did I mention they can afford raising the dead?

Als, this would have a massive impact on PVP and DM quests.

Yeah, pretty much.

I *liked* the cheaper raising, as it reduced respawns on quests, made things more interesting as opposed to "hey guys, I'm fine! Again!" since people were more likely to think "It's worth a raise, that's too much XP to lose".

So, respawning (even when it's rationalized as a "knocked-out-then-revived-before-enemies-could-make-off-with-the-corpse" kind of thing) is immersion-breaking and gets old after a while, but a spell that raises the dead costing (as it did) the same as a couple of second circle scrolls bought off Tobar isn't?

Finally, Create Undead, a higher level scroll, is not exactly uncommon. One thing I'd not mind seeing is Raise Dead Scrolls as generic but very rare loot. Then you would have the chance of a faction (not necessarily a rich one even) having one in stores.

 Create Undead, afaik, summons an almost ridiculous undead servant to your aid.

 Raise Dead scrolls have been, to my knowledge, made loot in specific DM-mediated events; I encourage them to consider making more use of this item as loot, especially if the price of raises goes up again - this would, I believe, help foster an IC atmosphere and coming back from the dead isn't some cakewalk that anybody fresh off the portal can afford.

[Egon the Monkey]

I'm not so bothered about "immersion" as "variety". Quite a few players who know me know that I enjoy running a couple of random OOC tell conversations while playing, and that does little for immersion.

If the cost of a raise in gold is cheaper in time to reasonably stocked PCs than a respawn's extra XP cost, it's more likely people will decide to stay dead on a quest. Completing the quest with a PC down and having to get their body safe adds a bit of interest and extra post quest RP IMO.

Also, I'm generally dead set against these sort of "Make the Server Harder" posts. EfU has a very harsh Character Death system, and a tough setting. it's not an easy server. In fact, it's the second hardest RPG of any sort I've ever played. The hardest going to Nethack which even automatically deletes saves when your char gets killed, and it's a single player game.

Every so often I come up against some ridiculously tough quest, get fugued by a lucky crit or something and think "screw this". Then I cool off, decide not to punch the wall, and go relevel my PC.

Making this server tougher would sap the fun out of it, right now there's a reasonable balance. Not every player can "play their cards right", not everyone *wants* to quest train or merchant to get that buffer of gold, either as a player, or as what their PC would do. Heck, I don't think any of my PCs have EVER possessed 4k.

With the 700 gold raises before or the 900 gold of the UD (where there was a lot more money kicking around than on Ymph), a party/allies can get a char raised quickly after a PVP, DM quest trouble or expensive (in XP) death, before the player decides to log out of boredom, losing the body and requiring DM intervention for a raise.

And with Clerics getting Raise Dead at a level below what most serious NPCs are, it doesn't seem to require an improbable amount of divine heavy lifitng to pull off.

@Nihm.
You're missing the point. Respawns don't bug me, I just appreciate the bit of spice someone occasionally deciding not to spawn, but get a raise brings.

Whether someone is healed or respawns is no matter, they're still in the party. Someone deciding to get raised puts them out of the team for the remainder of the quest, and makes you have to think "hhm, do we get them out, go on without another tank/mage/scout?" etc. That's a challenge to resolve, and cheaper raises led to more of that.

[Nihm]

I think this discussion is really about people's perception of how easy money is to get in efua.  In my experience, getting 1300 gp isn't easy at all.  As more quests get added and the average earning per character goes up, the raise dead should indeed be slowly adjusted to match.  For now everyone I know of respawns because they can't afford the raise.

[Kotenku]

I am in favor of Raises costing 10,000 gold, the Respawn penalty being lowered to 1/6, 1/9, 1/12, and having a set limit of respawns per character not to exceed 10.

No, seriously.

[Letsplayforfun]

having a set limit of respawns per character not to exceed 10.

At first thought i thought this would be a good idea, but although i think it would be cool to limit respawns, it wouldn't be as cool considering their are deaths based on technical problems (lag, computer freeze at a bad time, auto attack when invisible, etc.) which are already sucky, and can't be told apart from 'normal' deaths.

As far as raise dead is concerned, raising the price a bit sounds good, but probably not towards 3000, cos then you might as well delete the spell for 99% of players.

I understand Kiairing considering the spell is "a miracle", but that's the problem when dealing with magic. If the spell is a 5th lvl one, then it's actually not so much of a miracle in Faerun.

[Snoteye]

You're forgetting it's a fifth level divine spell, making it just that bit more of a miracle. For what it's worth, I think 700 (and 900) is much too cheap for Raise Dead.

And there will never be a limit on respawns as long as I have a say in the matter.

[Inquisitor]

I've played somewhat off and on for a few weeks, predominantly questing more than anything.

I've yet to gather more than 400 gold at any one point, though I've also never gotten beyond level 6.