The Wilds, Part Deux.

[prestonhunt]

Thread rezzing this post, made by Thomas:

http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25146

I am no nub to wandering the server.  I used to spend hours in the machine, in the Sand Caverns, in some of the most dangerous areas of the Underdark.  Wandering the server is one of my favorite things to do, boring as it may seem to some of you.

I have a druid now who has just about as much stealth as a druid can have, certainly more than Sabah who reached twice the level of my current PC and never had a problem in the Underdark, and creatures are making listen checks on me when I am stealthed, and twenty feet down a hall, around the corner.  They come charging down the hall (only I cant see them because of line of sight), round the corner, and the rest plays out as you can probably imagine.  There are just too many critters, with too much AB, sporting too much damage, with too much listen, often with knockdown or Power Attack.

I dont want to be a druid who only hangs around the Ziggurat waiting for the next sending so I can head out in the safety of a group, for some scripted quest.  I want to explore these areas you lads have spent so much time making, without it costing me a respawn and a pile of wasted time trying to get one of you to move said spawns, please.

I've said my bit.

[putrid_plum]

I played a druid and I had no problems with this, so I do not get what you mean.

[The Crimson Magician]

He means that he had to bug DMs to move spawns away.

[BoomdaddyBP]

The creatures in the wilds do have decent detect skills and will occasionally spot even very good stealth I have found. I haven't thought it too bad but that may be because I have been lucky enough to only get spotted by spawns that I am able to deal with. Perhaps just the listen could be tweaked down a bit.

Also, not sure if it might be your case but I know that for some reason if you are in a close vicinity that creatures will automatically run towards/to you after they have killed whatever they were fighting. Perhaps you thought they spotted you from around a corner but were just following whatever script causes that?

[Howlando]

I can't help but think that maybe there's some bugginess going on here.

Thorough experimentation of under what circumstances what monsters seem to detect when they shouldn't may be of value.

As far as I know we haven't been consciously pumping up the detect skills of many NPCs.

[Ommadawn]

Also, not sure if it might be your case but I know that for some reason if you are in a close vicinity that creatures will automatically run towards/to you after they have killed whatever they were fighting. Perhaps you thought they spotted you from around a corner but were just following whatever script causes that?

This has happened to me a few times, and has scared the bejeezers out of me (especially the mist ogre elder) but they aren't actually pursuing you, even if it seems they are (well, they have yet to actually attack me when this happens) so this isn't what Mag is talking about.

I have a played high stealth char for a LONG time now, and it is actually quite rare for monsters to spot me (I sadly can't say the same of many PC's ;) ). There are exceptions of course, and even stealth masters tred the bogs at their own peril.

That magic skill level of 20 seems to be the sweet spot for most critters (for Hide and MS). Perhaps your stealth just isn't high enough?

[Pup]

I've always thought the difference is the environment.  Sneaking around caves miles underground is going to be much easier than on a brightly lit tropical island.  I know NWN default takes lighting and such into account.

Of course, being heard from around corners or in the lower parts of the isle does seem a bit odd, if not downright buggy as Howland suggests.

[Flying Swordfish]

The wilderness in general seems much more deadly than most areas of the Underdark.  The number of spawns with paralyzation effects is much higher than I remember ever seeing in the Underdark, which might be part of the problem.

Also, Cave Bears are wicked.  +20 ab in power attack doing 30 damage a hit when they don't even crit might be a bit too much.  Of course, if I was playing a druid or ranger and could AE these then lead them to attack unsuspecting victims all over the island, I would probably not mind so much.

[Egon the Monkey]

In the UD, so long as it wasn't an Umberhulk facing me, my old ranger could feel fairly safe exploring, if he was careful. Now, a good proportion of the Really Dangerous Stuff is just as sneaky as my PCs.

However, it's not completely ridiculous, like it was when that thread of TNVW's went up. Malar Beasts aren't spawning in packs of 4 anymore, and I can creep though a good deal of areas fine. Other than The Mountains of Icestorm Death and sometimes the Webbed Woods. Icestorm is IMO a bit much, and something you can save and properly insulate against would be less horrific. That can wipe out a sneak in one shot. Maybe swap them to Scintillating sphere or Confusion?

The odd, regular "fuck you" monster like an Ogre Bandit is great, if its something you can avoid well on a sneak, or deal with on a team. Cave bears are a case in point. They are nasty but easy to deal with on a sneak or wilds PC. They don't have very high spotting, and their AE check is not hard to beat if you go for it before they get into combat. They will put out high damage, have gratuitious HP, but their AC is balls. They aren't a great threat to a "sneaky", "wilds" or "bulldozer" expedition.

On the other hand, Assassin vines have onhit paralysis poison (better than DA, it works in a straight fight), mindspell immunity and are tough. I also think they have some degree of spot, though my ranger never got detected.

I really would say, "cut down the number of tough mobs with spotting as random spawns". Mostly because new druid and wilds ranger PCs need to be able to have routes where a moderate degree of stealth will get you by, and you won't get spotted and ganked by a Ymphian Saber Tiger from out of stealth.

The webbed woods are good. The spot skills range from "good" to "ridiculous" but you can see the trouble in advance usually. I also like the Bogs, where the danger to sneaks doesn't come from the Trolls directly, but from the Oozes that will spot you and force you to flee or reveal yourself by fighting However Oozes are slow, and other than Mouthers, easy to avoid. As a side note, is it possible to add a will save to the Mouther's ranged touch attack? It would seem to make sense.

Combinations of mobs that make life difficult if you're not careful are cool. Enemies that can stealth-gank you when you're sneaking are just offputting.

[Letsplayforfun]

I've never had an issue with with a druid going round and round the isle, but beware of one thing that can be scary: sometimes, monsters start running, and you think they are going for you, so you get into combat mode and reveal yourself, when actually they were just running to a waypoint, or to another target.

As for the cave bears, leave as is, imo. They are well balanced, tough but beatable foes, and of course AE rules them all.